FAREWELL BEN NEWTON VIV MICHIE AND MAX KING

[Skuit 10,031]

Garland, Trenners, Lumumba. Prob Peds. JKH if he can't get his body right. We've got a bit to clear before we start jettisoning the likes of ANB or Harmes and then Bugg, Kennedy and vandenBurg.

[chook fowler 19,519]

Spencer completely lost me with his game in the Casey grand final. It was one of the most insipid efforts I've seen and shows he is just not up to it.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

 

If Taylor keeps finding gems in the fourth round like Hunt, OMac etc, we'll be able to compete with any list in the league. I truly believe our best 22 has one or two weak links and another link or two that need to improve if they're to maintain their spot(s). That's incredible given our 'best' 22 at the start of 2014.

The other guy I forgot RE: delistings next year will be Trenners unfortunately. Lumumba might be in trouble too.

JKH needs to show a bit also.

[jimcor 212]

It might have been explained somewhere else but I've missed it.  My question is how many slots does that leave us with to fill?

FWIW, I'm happy with all four of these delistings given that all had multiple opportunities to impress in the AFL but none did so.  Time to move on.

[monoccular 17,571]

 

Spencer completely lost me with his game in the Casey grand final. It was one of the most insipid efforts I've seen and shows he is just not up to it.

Didn't see the game chook, but given his otherwise good year (by all accounts) maybe he was unwell or injured?

Edited October 21, 2016 by monoccular

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

 

A pretty decent bottom end compared to what we had listed just three years ago. Is there a list-point that you have decent ready-made players that can step into the team that aren't worth replacing for spec development trades/picks? Bugg/Kennedy/Harmes/Vanders are pretty decent 25s-30s on a list even if they don't display much more improvement (which I all think can bar maybe Bugg). 

I agree.  All teams need depth and a number of role players who are not necessary stars, but can hold down a spot.  I don't think there is a team in the AFL that has a mix comprised of only stars and development players with nothing in between.  The salary cap and desire for playing opportunities see to that.

I think we've probably made the right choice by cutting the guys that fit into the category of injured/ not performing, there best wasn't even to the standard of the guys above and wasn't developing - classic list clogger's for want of a better word.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

 

Didn't mind Newton, the only one of the 4 maybe worth hanging onto. He could kick a goal and natural goalkickers aren't that easy to find.

He may get a shot as a rookie somewhere.

I wonder if he could be a fit for the GC.  I think he fit's their need for a bit of experience and Brisbane's weakness is their lack of key position types, not runners.  I could see Newton potentially plugging a small forward gap for the GC along side Two Meter Peter and Tom Lynch.

[Guest]

I remember an exchange between a couple of posters here where one basically stated the obvious about Michie and Newton: they would be speculative at best and most likely depth players. A poster who at times I class as one of the bigger villains of Demonland (though won't name him now so a fight isn't started) stated that Paul Roos wouldn't head hunt you if you weren't a gun (or something along those lines). Cue the eye roll but it did show how we used to look at recruitment circa 2012-2014. It wasn't the silk purses we were looking at. We tended to look for the pigs ears that we could turn into silk purses (unfortunate analogy but can't think of anything better now).

At least now we look at recycled players as what they should be: speculative and not saviors or game changers. Sam Mitchell is an exception to the rule. He isn't the rule.

Both Michie and Newton probably are good VFL level players but both now have probably used up their last chance. Not many do get a game at the top level and for that, the need to be commended.

[Adam The God 30,403]

 

I agree.  All teams need depth and a number of role players who are not necessary stars, but can hold down a spot.  I don't think there is a team in the AFL that has a mix comprised of only stars and development players with nothing in between.  The salary cap and desire for playing opportunities see to that.

I think we've probably made the right choice by cutting the guys that fit into the category of injured/ not performing, there best wasn't even to the standard of the guys above and wasn't developing - classic list clogger's for want of a better word.

Yeah, see I agree with you, but not in the case of our current list. You don't want your depth players to be liabilities with the ball in hand. Vanders, Harmes and Bugg certainly are and I can't see Garland ever playing again.

[Milesh 26]

 

No surprises. Had hopes for Newton because of his kicking, and I still think his best is superior to that of Bugg and Kennedy.

Casey might be in for a tough year next year.

I disagree.  In fact I think Casey will be stronger as relative journeymen get replaced by young talent pushing hard for a increasingly difficult spot in the Dees 22.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

 

I remember an exchange between a couple of posters here where one basically stated the obvious about Michie and Newton: they would be speculative at best and most likely depth players. A poster who at times I class as one of the bigger villains of Demonland (though won't name him now so a fight isn't started) stated that Paul Roos wouldn't head hunt you if you weren't a gun (or something along those lines). Cue the eye roll but it did show how we used to look at recruitment circa 2012-2014. It wasn't the silk purses we were looking at. We tended to look for the pigs ears that we could turn into silk purses (unfortunate analogy but can't think of anything better now).

At least now we look at recycled players as what they should be: speculative and not saviors or game changers. Sam Mitchell is an exception to the rule. He isn't the rule.

Both Michie and Newton probably are good VFL level players but both now have probably used up their last chance. Not many do get a game at the top level and for that, the need to be commended.

In hindsight...........

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

 

Unlike others, I really wanted Michie kept because he is all class and our VFL forwards love having him in the side because he is so good at hitting targets.

Ultimately he is just a tad slow to make it at AFL level, but he's been an absolute star at VFL level and I imagine he'll be snapped up by Port Melb or Willy for next year.

Dawes I suspect never really got over his hand injuries from his Collingwood days. He's an honest worker, but you can't keep dropping marks at AFL level.

Newton's cards were effectively marked when he was majorly exposed for pace at Subiaco in 2015. But he has that knack of just being in the right spot to snag a lovely goal.

Max King seems like a lovely guy and has nice skills, but hasn't been able to impose, even in the development league. Could be a very handy VAFA player next season.

Wouldn't Michie keep playing for Casey?

[Guest]

 

In hindsight...........

No Saty, believe it or not, the person who made that initial quote about Roos only recruiting guns (as in star players, not the figurative guns that you take photos of) wasn't you!

No hindsight about it. I always felt if they could step up to the mark then great but they were most likely going to be depth. I didn't oppose their recruiting because we were so short  on AFL level players full stop but I was realistic in not putting too high a ceiling on them.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

 

No Saty, believe it or not, the person who made that initial quote about Roos only recruiting guns (as in star players, not the figurative guns that you take photos of) wasn't you!

No hindsight about it. I always felt if they could step up to the mark then great but they were most likely going to be depth. I didn't oppose their recruiting because we were so short  on AFL level players full stop but I was realistic in not putting too high a ceiling on them.

I know it wasn't me because I am not judgemental about players particularly on here because a lot of the time it comes back to bite posters.

Any player who gets on an AFL list has the opportunity to become a regular at AFL level,  due to a lot of circumstances, ability, opportunity or development some don't 

[picket fence 17,478]

 

Spencer completely lost me with his game in the Casey grand final. It was one of the most insipid efforts I've seen and shows he is just not up to it.

Yep but he had a few Dees mates that are..... No longer with us!! Say no more!!

[poita 3,902]

Meh. Michie and Newton have been on AFL lists for six and five years respectively, and neither has come close to being an AFL standard footballer for all the reasons listed above and more. King can't get a game at Casey so is light years away from being a decent footballer.

We need to be more ruthless with players who simply aren't good enough. You can justify giving a guy like Hunt a third year because he has a stand out attribute, but keeping a guy like Michie around for three years (after his three at Freo) is just ridiculous.

I'd be disappointed if the likes of Vandenberg, Kennedy and Bugg see out next year if there is not serious improvement in their games over that period. And Lumumba should be moved on this year, irrespective of contract status.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,906]

 

Meh. Michie and Newton have been on AFL lists for six and five years respectively, and neither has come close to being an AFL standard footballer for all the reasons listed above and more. King can't get a game at Casey so is light years away from being a decent footballer.

We need to be more ruthless with players who simply aren't good enough. You can justify giving a guy like Hunt a third year because he has a stand out attribute, but keeping a guy like Michie around for three years (after his three at Freo) is just ridiculous.

I'd be disappointed if the likes of Vandenberg, Kennedy and Bugg see out next year if there is not serious improvement in their games over that period. And Lumumba should be moved on this year, irrespective of contract status.

So a contract isn't a contract? While clubs can pay players contracts out, that's not a particularly good way to run a business for a number of reasons. The one that strikes me is that players may choose not to come to a club which has shown a propensity to cut a contract short.  

[pinkshark 950]

A few on here bashing Vanders.  He's as tough as nails, had injury concerns pretty much all year.  Takes a grab, can kick a goal.   Runs, chases, tackles.   I'm a fan.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

 

A few on here bashing Vanders.  He's as tough as nails, had injury concerns pretty much all year.  Takes a grab, can kick a goal.   Runs, chases, tackles.   I'm a fan.

No, he just seems to be the next elected whipping boy for some, we have moved on the others. So for 2017 it looks to be Pencil Vanders HL BenKen Bugg not necessarily in that order, some posters need whipping boys (sorry BBO for stealing your thunder) otherwise it limits their posting

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I do not understand why Vanders is remotely a whipping boy. He was an awesome pick up by the club. He's like a T Rex roaming around the half forward line.

He kicks important goals, tackles with intent, has good skills, has a solid team focus. Injury concerns just restricted his output a little last season.

 

[rjay 25,063]

 

A few on here bashing Vanders.  He's as tough as nails, had injury concerns pretty much all year.  Takes a grab, can kick a goal.   Runs, chases, tackles.   I'm a fan.

 

 

I do not understand why Vanders is remotely a whipping boy. He was an awesome pick up by the club. He's like a T Rex roaming around the half forward line.

He kicks important goals, tackles with intent, has good skills, has a solid team focus. Injury concerns just restricted his output a little last season.

 

I like what Vanders brings but he really needs to sort out his disposal in 2017.

This is an issue the club will need to sort as a whole, it's not just restricted to Vanders. Bringing in Lewis and Hibberd is a good start, Salem coming back from injury will also be a big plus.

I think Hunt will improve his disposal with more games and composure.

[nutbean 8,838]

 

 

 

We need to be more ruthless with players who simply aren't good enough. You can justify giving a guy like Hunt a third year because he has a stand out attribute, but keeping a guy like Michie around for three years (after his three at Freo) is just ridiculous.

 

 

From last year.....

"Why on earth would we give Hunt another year on the senior list? He has done nothing at all to date to suggest he will be an AFL player.

Three years is what we gave Toumpas to prove himself, and he showed a million times more promise in that time than Hunt has."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, ay ? The problem is  - there is ruthless and reckless - you give players some time to show their worth and some will reward you and some will be a bust.

 

 

[Whispering_Jack 30,575]

Max King lands at South Croydon. It's a long way from the top.

Former Melbourne rookie Max King signs at Eastern Football League club South Croydon

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

24 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Max King lands at South Croydon. It's a long way from the top.

Former Melbourne rookie Max King signs at Eastern Football League club South Croydon

Good to see he and business partner Matty Jones are sticking together on field as well as with the tables! Good luck to them. 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

On 22/10/2016 at 9:49 AM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I wonder if he could be a fit for the GC.  I think he fit's their need for a bit of experience and Brisbane's weakness is their lack of key position types, not runners.  I could see Newton potentially plugging a small forward gap for the GC along side Two Meter Peter and Tom Lynch.