AFL Melbourne FC Academy

[spirit of norm smith 16,450]

With the Swans having Mills and Heeney in their GF team and being two definite rising stars, can we again question the uneven playing field.

The Swans got the extra living allowance of 10% to "retain players" which then allowed them to recruit Tippett and Franklin.  

Now the Academy for the Swans and Giants offers them access to the best talent as long as they match the bid. WTF!! Jacob Hopper is another rising star for the Giants and will be a star of the comp by 2018. How do they get such a bonus above and beyond salary cap concessions (albeit these are being dialled back).

If the AFL truly wanted to even the competition, let Melbourne FC nominate players from the Dandenong Stingrays for the draft and then be able to match a bid.  

Josh Battle is a definite top 8-10 draft selection and would be ideal as a big bodied key forward with a thirst for a contest (plays like Jake Stringer). But no, MFC could not get such access via a bid match process.  

I wonder how long it is before the system is again questioned as currently it will allow the Swans and Giants to stay strong or indeed get stronger despite being at the top of the ladder. 

[Redleg 40,907]

While I can understand to a degree the COLA, I cannot understand how these interstate clubs, get access to players through so called academies.

The AFL should just be upfront and give whichever non victorian  teams they want to win flags, the first 10 picks in the draft and to hell with everyone else.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Redleg

[DV8 2,271]

31 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

With the Swans having Mills and Heeney in their GF team and being two definite rising stars, can we again question the uneven playing field.

The Swans got the extra living allowance of 10% to "retain players" which then allowed them to recruit Tippett and Franklin.  

Now the Academy for the Swans and Giants offers them access to the best talent as long as they match the bid. WTF!! Jacob Hopper is another rising star for the Giants and will be a star of the comp by 2018. How do they get such a bonus above and beyond salary cap concessions (albeit these are being dialled back).

If the AFL truly wanted to even the competition, let Melbourne FC nominate players from the Dandenong Stingrays for the draft and then be able to match a bid.  

Josh Battle is a definite top 8-10 draft selection and would be ideal as a big bodied key forward with a thirst for a contest (plays like Jake Stringer). But no, MFC could not get such access via a bid match process.  

I wonder how long it is before the system is again questioned as currently it will allow the Swans and Giants to stay strong or indeed get stronger despite being at the top of the ladder. 

Not the Stingrays, but the Casey, & Sth & East Gippsland regions would be the go.  Then we can develop the good kids from 15 or 16Yrs, then get them in our academy.

[Left-Field 71]

I remember something earlier about the victorian teams get a zone or something, I'll try and find the article.

Victorian clubs handed AFL funding for academies

 

[Little Goffy 14,530]

Given that the AFL at the moment is suffering from a lack of 'gross weight of talent' which is leaving some clubs looking shambolic on field, there could be a case for formalising a general academy system.

For example;

Every club gets allocated $1m/year to be spent exclusively on development pathways and programs for juniors. For each year that a kid spends in a club's development program the club gets a small discount on the 'draft cost'. Let's say the equivalent of 4% draft value per year with the club, up to a maximum of 5 years/20%.

By making it incremental and having an annual cap on the spending, it stays fair and also free from the problem of arbitrary and disproportionate benefits. In theory a kid could spend two years with one club and switch to spend three years with another.

If the AFL are serious about developing talent in the TV states, then yeah, alright, GWS, Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast can have an increased budget for their academies, with of course the restriction of only putting it into kids in their states.

 

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

17 hours ago, DV8 said:

Not the Stingrays, but the Casey, & Sth & East Gippsland regions would be the go.  Then we can develop the good kids from 15 or 16Yrs, then get them in our academy.

Casey is the stingrays zone. Gippy power is everything east of pakenham. Everything west and the peninsular goes to the Rays 

[RalphiusMaximus 6,049]

As I've said before, we have a huge opportunity in the Dandenong area to engage the large population of refugees and try to develop some of those kids into quality players. There is a clear lack of youth programs in the area, so if the club get in there and put the time and resources in they could reap huge rewards. The AFL  have given us the opportunity. It's up to the club now to capitalise on what they've been given.

[DV8 2,271]

3 hours ago, Hellfish said:

Casey is the stingrays zone. Gippy power is everything east of pakenham. Everything west and the peninsular goes to the Rays 

yes but the stingrays are but a small club only a small part of that whole area.

 

Are you saying you want stingrays to do all the work, & we will just cherry pick when they're 17yrs old?

 

I'm suggesting we keep tabs on our whole zone, & of the kids once they become teenagers. Once they then become 15yr olds, we start to give the better ones special tuition in school holidays.

Then the ones who develop, we select the best of them for our academy, which I think should start in the kids 16th yr.   So they get a scholarship & special skills training etc. 

Once they're of draft-able age, we should be able to take up to 3 a year,  Pre draft (no bidding) . Inclusive of father sons.  

After the 3 Pre draft picks,  the draft should take place as it is now, with those not selected as Pre draft selections, should go into the bidding system, to ascertain they're draft value. 

We could match those bids, or choose not to.

[spirit of norm smith 16,450]

Agreed with the thinking... but logic and fairness don't seem on the AFL agenda.

Forgot to mention that Jacob Weitering would have been our draft zone pick in 2015!!

[whatwhat say what 22,747]

We should be able to do something with the NT.

[Deefiant 441]

I don't mind the academies. The best result from the academy is that we no longer need them because regions in sydney are pumping out the best few draft picks every year. I see there has been no mention of the academies that Brisbane/Gold Coast have so it seems like it's only "unfair" when teams are doing well... However, giving the riverina to GWS is a different story. 

[Number of the Beast 80]

We need to develop talent locally not interstate, it needs to not just go back to the days of zoning but the excess of money needs to go onto funding Victorian club academies, my son is  15 years old, 6'2, 93 kg bull  but because of stagnant development at his previous club he now is only beginning to develop with the right coaching.. Should have moved him earlier but they are loyal to their team mates of the time.. Don't know how far he'll get , been told he has the ability to make VFL or other state leagues given he remains injury free etc....The thing is if there was better recourse to academies and zoning, the identification of prospective talent and development gets taken out of the local leagues & TAC and into the academies. The TAC is a factory nothing less, too many kids not enough resources (Know of 3 missed by TAC gone to Melb Storm and Melb Victory in the last year) but Vic  AFL clubs are denied the right to nurture and grow their own talent from within the state.  So many junior clubs are now unable to field teams of differing age groups through lack of numbers- the advent of basketball, soccer and non sport activities.. AFL, cricket, tennis all suffering in our area.. Spoken to many coaches, club officials and parents over the journey and the decline is there for all to see... Time for the AFL to concern themselves with their own backyard rather than their corporate shizenhousen up in GWS and their international fantasies. Local development, zoning, for the Vic clubs should be on a higher agenda for Vic  youth. 

This is a personal opinion,I understand others will have different view --I can only state what I have seen and heard at junior level.

I'm still recovering fro surgery so I hope this is coherent enough!

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Number of the Beast

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Anyone who argues a need for any academies has a poor understanding of why the draft was introduced in the first place.

[71 Molloy 266]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Anyone who argues a need for any academies has a poor understanding of why the draft was introduced in the first place.

Please enlighten us.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, 71 Molloy said:

Please enlighten us.

Google it.

[71 Molloy 266]

4 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Google it.

Don't trust google, not after what they are doing to Trump.

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

2 hours ago, 71 Molloy said:

Don't trust google, not after what they are doing to Trump.

Try Yahoo

[SaberFang 7,151]

14 hours ago, Deefiant said:

I don't mind the academies. The best result from the academy is that we no longer need them because regions in sydney are pumping out the best few draft picks every year. I see there has been no mention of the academies that Brisbane/Gold Coast have so it seems like it's only "unfair" when teams are doing well... However, giving the riverina to GWS is a different story. 

The entire point of Academies is to gift those 4 teams the best 4 players in their states every year. Imagine if the same thing happened in Victoria to only 2 rich clubs.

[hoopla 418]

On 1 October 2016 at 11:11 PM, SaberFang said:

The entire point of Academies is to gift those 4 teams the best 4 players in their states every year. Imagine if the same thing happened in Victoria to only 2 rich clubs.

Sorry mate - that is a side-effect - not the core issue

In the northern states - "sporty kids" are naturally siphoned through the schools to Thugby League, Soccer , Cricket etc. To grow the game -the AFL has to identify young talent and offer them a fast track program through to the elite level. Logically the interstate clubs are best placed to do that - but they need an incentive to pour time and energy into young kids. 

The incentive? "You pull the talent away from the other sports - and if they start to look like genuine AFL players - you get first crack at signing them up."

The best young athlete's etc in Victoria , SA and WA will naturally have a crack at AFL anyway. Zoning disappeared long ago. The draft is designed to give everyone an even go.

It would be nice to think that one day AFL will be so strong in the northern states that "academy zones" wouldn't be necessary !! 

[spirit of norm smith 16,450]

Victorian clubs should get access to the best player in their zones. Make it pre draft and let the clubs decide. 

All clubs could be allowed one choice.  

It would definitely reward the development time and $$$ spent.

AFL NEEDS TO SHOW ITS A NATIONAL SYSTEM.

[rjay 24,919]

11 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Victorian clubs should get access to the best player in their zones. Make it pre draft and let the clubs decide. 

All clubs could be allowed one choice.  

It would definitely reward the development time and $$$ spent.

AFL NEEDS TO SHOW ITS A NATIONAL SYSTEM.

No....

Going back to zones would be a retrograde step.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I was thinking about the Sydney academy on GF day, and started off thinking how unfair it was on Vic clubs, to then trying to work out how much benefit they have actually got from it.  I could name Mills and Heeney straight away, but couldn't think of anyone else after that.  Would love someone to put up a list of their current players that they have picked up directly from their academy.

The GWS/Riverina deal is definitely something that the AFL should look at, and given it got a bit of air time this year, I'm sure the screws will tighten on that in due course.

To be honest, I'd be quite against re-introducing a zoning style in Victoria.  I think kids/parents these days will do whatever they can do to get their kids playing for a specific team.  While I appreciate that the zoning would likely be based on their junior club location, I think the game is far too professional these days that parents would be more strategic to ensure their son (and now daughter) play for a certain club.  It will continue to make the strong stronger.

Bring back the days of the Under 19 competition!

[DV8 2,271]

6 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Victorian clubs should get access to the best player in their zones.  Make it pre draft and let the clubs decide. 

All clubs could be allowed one choice.  

It would definitely reward the development time and $$$ spent.

AFL NEEDS TO SHOW ITS A NATIONAL SYSTEM.

Exactly.  it gives reason to develop your zones from grassroots, if you get first dibs on the best you can grow them.

But only One Pre-Draft pick each club, isn't enough. 

When now we have this bidding system on father/sons, within the draft.  But father/sons should not be in the draft at all.  They should get a direct passage to they're fathers club, if that club has the list spots available & they want the F/S player.

Regarding Pre-Draft academy choices, it's my reckoning that we should get about 2 Pre-Draft selections for our zoned academy players per year, but the father/sons should also come through this academy system as well, so they can also get that special tuition from the time they are 16Yrs of age.

This is why I arrived at the number of 3 Pre-Draft selections, from our zones academy.

[rjay 24,919]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

Exactly.  it gives reason to develop your zones from grassroots, if you get first dibs on the best you can grow them.

But only One Pre-Draft pick each club, isn't enough. 

When now we have this bidding system on father/sons, within the draft.  But father/sons should not be in the draft at all.  They should get a direct passage to they're fathers club, if that club has the list spots available & they want the F/S player.

Regarding Pre-Draft academy choices, it's my reckoning that we should get about 2 Pre-Draft selections for our zoned academy players per year, but the father/sons should also come through this academy system as well, so they can also get that special tuition from the time they are 16Yrs of age.

This is why I arrived at the number of 3 Pre-Draft selections, from our zones academy.

I'm probably going to sound a bit condescending here 'DV8' sorry...but you are probably not old enough to remember the zone system before the draft came in.

If you want to understand why Hawthorn have the supporter base they have and why they were/are such a successful club from the 70's onward just check out their zones and who came out of them.

...and believe me they didn't do anything to develop players, the local areas they had were booming with kids and footy clubs. They got lucky and they weren't letting go of a gold mine.

The draft was the only thing that started to even out the competition and anything that weakens it would be a disaster. We've already seen that with the recent compromised drafts.

...and then we have the manipulation of unscrupulous club officials, hard to believe I know but kids were moved into different club zones so they could be attached to that club. Wouldn't happen these days of course, imagine someone like Gubby let loose in this environment...

 

[monoccular 17,427]

On 01/10/2016 at 11:11 PM, SaberFang said:

The entire point of Academies is to gift those 4 teams the best 4 players in their states every year. Imagine if the same thing happened in Victoria to only 2 rich clubs.

Don't give Gil ideas - he may be watching.  

"Collingwood and poor misunderstood Essendon - how would you like me to give you the top 4 Victorians each year?  Just to keep you and ch 7 happy."