Media fawning all over Jobe Watson this morning like he's a war hero or something.

Makes me sick.

Sorry, not much to contribute, but really disappointed in the way his return is being framed.

Hasn't learned much...

Just said "YES" to everything.

14 minutes ago, Choke said:

Media fawning all over Jobe Watson this morning like he's a war hero or something.

Makes me sick.

Sorry, not much to contribute, but really disappointed in the way his return is being framed.

choke, they need a new messiah, now the golden one has faded into the fog....................sickening

Agree with the OP. The hypocrisy of the Australian media when it comes to drug taking is appalling. They brandish every sportsperson that competes for a country reknowned for it's systemic drug taking as a drug cheat, except when it's an Australian sportsperson. The problem is that they see the personal side of the Australian sportsperson, he's a great bloke etc, but that's not factored in when they're condemning a foreign sportsperson.

On SEN, it seemed like all the SMS feedback they got was negative towards Watson holding a press conference, aside from Essendon supporters.

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Agree with the OP. The hypocrisy of the Australian media when it comes to drug taking is appalling. They brandish every sportsperson that competes for a country reknowned for it's systemic drug taking as a drug cheat, except when it's an Australian sportsperson. The problem is that they see the personal side of the Australian sportsperson, he's a great bloke etc, but that's not factored in when they're condemning a foreign sportsperson.

On SEN, it seemed like all the SMS feedback they got was negative towards Watson holding a press conference, aside from Essendon supporters.

 

Well, I guess that's something...

this bloke had his career ruined by that joke of a club - his best prime 4 years of his career.  cannot believe he would go back.

doubt he will get back to anywhere near his best.  

bottom 4 for the dons next year, then stanton, jobe etc will retire and their lack of draft picks and young kids will tell and they will be bottom for 5 years (sorry I drifted off into a lovely day dream then)

Ess fans were already insufferable... F me let night/today even worse. News feeds with people changing profile pics to a bulldog with footy boots in front of it... Spew 

When will elephant in the room (aka the Brownlow or Downlow in this case) be sorted? This whole saga of [censored] has become tedious and I've lost the plot as it were.

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

When will elephant in the room (aka the Brownlow or Downlow in this case) be sorted? This whole saga of [censored] has become tedious and I've lost the plot as it were.

When?? you say that like it will happen. The AFL has their heads burried so deeply into the sand in relation to this it will take an huge archaeological dig team years to recover their remains in 100 years time.

13 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

When will elephant in the room (aka the Brownlow or Downlow in this case) be sorted? This whole saga of [censored] has become tedious and I've lost the plot as it were.

Read somewhere that the Swiss court challenge is the show stopper as far as the medal goes.

Lose the appeal, lose the medal.

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and have been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else (other than MDMA) is cut to make up that pill, and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

Edited September 23, 20168 yr by stevethemanjordan

I dislike the fawning over these guys.  The club acts like it is holier than thou.  The supporters are smug turds that still don't get how wrong this all was.  The media think the return of Jobe is a messiah moment.

They are people who did the wrong thing.  If they have paid their dues, they can get back to work.  The club and those in positions of power and responsibility have acted unconscionably and put the careers, and lives, of young men at risk.  They should all be held accountable and put to the sword.

14 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and has been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else other than MDMA is cut to make up that pill and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you, it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

Best post I've read about this whole subject. Which prob means it risks setting off a s***storm.

9 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and has been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else other than MDMA is cut to make up that pill and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you, it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. 

I can partially accept your viewpoint but it doesn't stack up.  

Why didn't they speak to and gain approval from the doctor? And even if they did (which they have never claimed) remember the 16yo gymnast who lost her gold medal at the Sydney Olympics for taking a panadol. It is no defence. You are in control of what you digest.

Why didn't they seek external counsel like they are told to time and again? Why didn't they speak to a parent or close friend or manager? And if they did why did none of them raise the alarm?

If I am an athlete and here the words "cutting edge supplement programme" and/or "black ops" my alarm bells would be deafening.

Jobe might be a good bloke but he is a drug cheat. He should bear the punishment.

The East German athletes had no say in what they were given. It is simply no excuse to blame other parties. Otherwise all of the tainted athletes would use that as their defence. 'My coach/Doctor/trusted team boss etc gave me the pills that he said were cleared by WADA'

Sport cannot function that way.

EFC guilty. Jobe guilty. AFL and sychophantic media appalling and disgusting support of drug cheating club.

Brownlow winners: Cotchin and Mitchell

21 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and has been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else other than MDMA is cut to make up that pill and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you, it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

Youre comparing ecstasy pills with going to the clinic across the road to be injected with "unknown" substances from china/mexico?

Why dont you go and ask jobe your mate why they hid everything from the doctor and went off site for injections?

... and here it comes.

34 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and has been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else other than MDMA is cut to make up that pill and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you, it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

It's not the person.... it is the failure to take responsibility and the playing of the victim card.

These guys are full time professional sportsmen. Moreover Jobe as captain  was in a particular leadership role which makes the action more irresponsible.

Anyway as I said about Melksham the guys have served their suspension and deserve to return if they wish. That does not mean we should fawn over them.

21 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I can partially accept your viewpoint but it doesn't stack up. 

But what should they do? Get out their scientific testing equipment whenever the coach and medical staff tell them to take something that is safe and legal just to be sure?

I assume you've done hours of scientific testing every time you were about to take any form of medication?

 

I'm just loving the Essendon supporters who are now saying top four finish next year and a flag within three years. 

Quite funny really. 

Just now, stuie said:

But what should they do? Get out their scientific testing equipment whenever the coach and medical staff tell them to take something that is safe and legal just to be sure?

I assume you've done hours of scientific testing every time you were about to take any form of medication?

 

I would assume that a professional sportsperson can easily keep a spreadsheet of what they are taking. Hell they measure the spoons of pasta for the dietician.

They have well paid managers that can easily run these supplements by a third party if there is any concern.

Remember these guys were being injected almost every day with what they cannot or would not say. Conveniently left it off their  "drug" returns when tested. It goes on and on ......

They weren't lily white children that's for sure.

41 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and has been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else other than MDMA is cut to make up that pill and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you, it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

Is your relationship with Jobe good enough to ask him why he didn't disclose 'thymo' on his ASADA testing form?

Good enough to ask him what he thought when his thighs grew to monstrous levels in such a short time span?

Good enough to ask him what went through his head when he was injected in an anti-aging clinic?

Good enough to ask him why Zaharakis said no?

Good enough to ask him if he's one of the players who know exactly what the players took, as Heppell said he knows on AFL 360, but wouldn't actually reveal it?

Good enough to ask him why some players know what it is - Heppell, but others do not - Hal Hunter?

Good enough to ask him if he'll retain his brownlow if his appeal succeeds on a procedural technicality?

You're in a unique position to ask some very interesting questions here.

1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I would assume that a professional sportsperson can easily keep a spreadsheet of what they are taking. Hell they measure the spoons of pasta for the dietician.

They have well paid managers that can easily run these supplements by a third party if there is any concern.

Remember these guys were being injected almost every day with what they cannot or would not say. Conveniently left it off their  "drug" returns when tested. It goes on and on ......

They weren't lily white children that's for sure.

Not saying they're blameless at all, just think before all this footy club culture was all based on trust, so when the club legend who is your coach, and the highly paid medical staff come and tell you to go on a medical program that is totally safe and legal you would believe them. That's all changed now, but it's changed due to this whole thing, it wasn't that way before all this happened. Let's remember most of the players are basically kids, kids who all those spreadsheets etc done for them by club staff. They've learned their lesson now, they've been suitably punished and footy club culture has forever been changed.

 

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

But what should they do? Get out their scientific testing equipment whenever the coach and medical staff tell them to take something that is safe and legal just to be sure?

I assume you've done hours of scientific testing every time you were about to take any form of medication?

 

For one they should've filled out the asada forms honestly, asada would've checked if everything was ok or, not.

 

Edited September 23, 20168 yr by 1 red eye 1 blue eye

6 minutes ago, Flamingdees said:

I'm just loving the Essendon supporters who are now saying top four finish next year and a flag within three years. 

Quite funny really. 

Their list isn't all that bad though.
This is the big issue with them getting pick 1 in the draft - usually this is reserved for a team that is so bad that they naturally performed the worst of all and need the most talented kid in the land to climb back up the ladder.
Essendon have finished bottom by virtue of their punishment, which is not a true reflection of the state of their list.

In any case, as I'm sure all MFC supporters are well aware, one early pick or even a handful of them won't save you.
It's about the culture more than anything, and I'm not sure it's where it needs to be for Essendon just yet.

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Not saying they're blameless at all, just think before all this footy club culture was all based on trust, so when the club legend who is your coach, and the highly paid medical staff come and tell you to go on a medical program that is totally safe and legal you would believe them. That's all changed now, but it's changed due to this whole thing, it wasn't that way before all this happened. Let's remember most of the players are basically kids, kids who all those spreadsheets etc done for them by club staff. They've learned their lesson now, they've been suitably punished and footy club culture has forever been changed.

 

All the information was on Google

Still is.