1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Huh?

It's commonly held that the Weagles engaged in some creative character assassination on Jack Darling in his draft year to convince clubs to leave him alone.  There were rumours of drug use, bad attitude, excessive partying and even an orgy with some students from an all-girls school while on camp.  Whether this is true and whether it made clubs cool on him is open for debate, but he was rated a top five talent and they picked him up for pick 26. 

12 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

It's commonly held that the Weagles engaged in some creative character assassination on Jack Darling in his draft year to convince clubs to leave him alone.  There were rumours of drug use, bad attitude, excessive partying and even an orgy with some students from an all-girls school while on camp.  Whether this is true and whether it made clubs cool on him is open for debate, but he was rated a top five talent and they picked him up for pick 26. 

I knew that, but what's that got to do with Kobe?

The premise being that Clubs have and do hide talent. If Kobe makes it onto our list that's a feat in itself and would suggest he has talent, right. So, if he does make our list, why hasn't Freo recognised this talent? I've read the Kobe thread on the Freo forum and their supporters have been as eager as us at the prospect of a Wiz junior but there has been nary a whisper, and then, kind of out of the blue....he's training with us. It wouldn't have cost Freo anything to have him train with them.

Wiz would be thrilled to see Kobe in either colours but we saw how excited he was in the finals and to me looked as passionate a Demon supporter as anyone. So we wait with anticipation. In the meantime, anything wrong with thinking that some planning may have gone into this?

3 hours ago, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

The premise being that Clubs have and do hide talent. If Kobe makes it onto our list that's a feat in itself and would suggest he has talent, right. So, if he does make our list, why hasn't Freo recognised this talent? I've read the Kobe thread on the Freo forum and their supporters have been as eager as us at the prospect of a Wiz junior but there has been nary a whisper, and then, kind of out of the blue....he's training with us. It wouldn't have cost Freo anything to have him train with them.

Wiz would be thrilled to see Kobe in either colours but we saw how excited he was in the finals and to me looked as passionate a Demon supporter as anyone. So we wait with anticipation. In the meantime, anything wrong with thinking that some planning may have gone into this?

We simply could have picked him in the draft as a father son. Or just picked him with our last pick. All clubs passed on selecting him.

30 minutes ago, ManDee said:

We simply could have picked him in the draft as a father son. Or just picked him with our last pick. All clubs passed on selecting him.

Exachery  ManDEE !!

Exactly and no one did, if he had shown talent every Club would've been into him. Look it's very early days, I'm not wedded to the suggestion and there's a lot of water to travel under said bridges but you have to agree if he gets a spot on our list then that is a fair escalation and if he then becomes anything resembling his Father I'm not sure you'd be putting it down solely to pot luck.

It’s not the first time Fremantle has passed on a Farmer...! ?‍? 

Senior and now Junior... 

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

What makes Bedford a small forward and not Spargo and Chandler? Is it his race?

He’s not Eddie Betts but Spargo has some forward craft - can crumb, can move through traffic. He’s a pretty standard forward flanker. Melksham is a different type of player, he has enough forward craft if it wasn’t for his lack of pressure.

ANB isn’t an AFL level footy iq player but he does have rare physical gifts to play the high half forward. He’s 5% smarts, skills and tackling from being an effective team man. It’s certainly now or never though. 

Wow, just wow.

2 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Wow, just wow.

yep thought the same. ordinary thing to say. 

2 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Wow, just wow.

Care to answer the question? There's nothing in Bedford's game that makes him qualified as a small forward compared with Chandler or Spargo. 

I don't understand the angst about him not being drafted. Not everybody can be drafted. Freo's loss is our gain he can't train for both.

9 hours ago, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Exactly and no one did, if he had shown talent every Club would've been into him. Look it's very early days, I'm not wedded to the suggestion and there's a lot of water to travel under said bridges but you have to agree if he gets a spot on our list then that is a fair escalation and if he then becomes anything resembling his Father I'm not sure you'd be putting it down solely to pot luck.

I don't think clubs really hide talent at all. In fact clubs are usually conservative that if they have someone talented from an unusual background they often get them to do a year at a state league or get them in to a NAB League team to play some games at the higher level to see if they measure up. Tom Stewart at Geelong. Lewis Jetta. Liam Ryan doing a second WAFL year. There's plenty of guys who had the talent but clubs didn't rush in to drafting.

But apart from that it just doesn't really add up that we'd ask Kobe to not play all that well and not offer him anything in return. If we wanted him to tank his draft stock surely we'd have to have promised him we'd take him in the rookie draft in return.

The reality is most likely that he wasn't all that good and with shrinking lists and a small draft he missed out. It is possible that he didn't impress Freo either for footy reasons or who knows, could be for other reasons. And maybe the chance to move out of WA and in with his father has had a good impact on him too. Wouldn't be the first or last in that boat.

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Care to answer the question? There's nothing in Bedford's game that makes him qualified as a small forward compared with Chandler or Spargo. 

I can't speak to Chandler's ability as a small forward as I've not seen him play.

I like Spargo when he gets the ball in his hand but he's always struck me as a ball chaser - a mid playing forward because he's small. I put ANB in the same bracket but he's bigger and not as clean as Spargo.

Bedford played his junior footy as a small forward and has the specific attributes required for the position - elite closing speed, tackling and knows where the goals are. What he seems to lack is the footy I.Q - the ability to read the play before it happens - but I'm going off a fairly small sample size.

I would argue that you're under-selling what it takes to be a small forward. The very best of them have played all of their footy there and were recruited especially to play that role because it takes years to learn how to do it effectively.

5 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I can't speak to Chandler's ability as a small forward as I've not seen him play.

I like Spargo when he gets the ball in his hand but he's always struck me as a ball chaser - a mid playing forward because he's small. I put ANB in the same bracket but he's bigger and not as clean as Spargo.

Bedford played his junior footy as a small forward and has the specific attributes required for the position - elite closing speed, tackling and knows where the goals are. What he seems to lack is the footy I.Q - the ability to read the play before it happens - but I'm going off a fairly small sample size.

I would argue that you're under-selling what it takes to be a small forward. The very best of them have played all of their footy there and were recruited especially to play that role because it takes years to learn how to do it effectively.

Most of the good ones (small forwards) have their craft already when they are drafted and need extra things like fitness team game plan and tweaking of Their ability to finish as A complete product.
Bowey and Laurie are natural footballers with the skills to crumb run carry and score plus dispose properly. Kossie has many traits but needs work on  a number of levels but is a good way along the path to become a very good AFL player.Spargo is building his game and physique to add to his footy smarts and Game craft. 
ANB is not a small forward nor is Melsham BTW.

9 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I can't speak to Chandler's ability as a small forward as I've not seen him play.

I like Spargo when he gets the ball in his hand but he's always struck me as a ball chaser - a mid playing forward because he's small. I put ANB in the same bracket but he's bigger and not as clean as Spargo.

Bedford played his junior footy as a small forward and has the specific attributes required for the position - elite closing speed, tackling and knows where the goals are. What he seems to lack is the footy I.Q - the ability to read the play before it happens - but I'm going off a fairly small sample size.

I would argue that you're under-selling what it takes to be a small forward. The very best of them have played all of their footy there and were recruited especially to play that role because it takes years to learn how to do it effectively.

I think there's more than one way to be classed as a small forward and the best teams have a variety of skillsets. Anything from elite speed like an Aaron Davey, super aerial and one on one ability like Jeff Farmer (and Eddie Betts), or just innate ability to read a crumb like Luke Breust. The 50+ goal kicking small is a rare and special player but good luck trying to find a guy like that.

Spargo's more of a half forward and doesn't have elite speed, aerial ability or a big back of tricks but he showed in his first year he could do enough of the basics well enough to contribute in finals. 

Bedford has good speed but that's about it. Chandler has sharper skills, finds more of the ball and is a stronger tackler from what I've seen.

Richmond's small forward brigade is illustrative of the different mixes. Rioli has some Rioli skills at times but is often pretty messy with the ball and I'd say he's quick without being lightning, he runs all days and senses the moment to pressure. Bolton wasn't great with his pressure early, but he has some crazy skills and is great in the air, he's kind of a small full forward mixed with a midfielder. Castagna was a half back flanker who competes in the air, has great pressure but no skills. Then they've played Higgins at times who is really a midfield playing half forward and is now traded. They've played Aarts who's a grinder. And Butler was the pure speedy crumber with low possessions who fell out of favour. The one constant is pressure and work rate to stay in the side, but the way they win the ball and how they use it is different for each player.

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The one constant is pressure and work rate to stay in the side...

Wholeheartedly agree. This is far more important than any other consideration but you can't isolate it either - you need 3-4 players covering the field with intent.

It's easy to look at a bloke and think he's not putting enough pressure on but a lot of the time, they'll be stuck covering a weak link in the chain and trying to decide whether to stick to their role as planned or try and be a hero and cover for someone.

That's why Richmond, as you've highlighted, are good. There are so many of them on the field pressuring, as a team. It's not up to two small forwards to generate all of your forward pressure.

Interesting that Max - on his and Gus's podcast - went to great lengths to talk up Deakyn Smith - "he can really play" - with what sounded like a plea to have him drafted.

But not one word about Kobe though. 

Perhaps we DLanders have been hyping the wrong player (?)

1 hour ago, Neil Crompton said:

Interesting that Max - on his and Gus's podcast - went to great lengths to talk up Deakyn Smith - "he can really play" - with what sounded like a plea to have him drafted.

But not one word about Kobe though. 

Perhaps we DLanders have been hyping the wrong player (?)

The only ones who have been hyping him are the ones that have been sucked in by the surname without even seeing him play. 

I mean, there was a reason why he went undrafted and Freo weren't fazed at all when we invited him down to train..

Though I'm still hanging on to @Dannyz word that he's been offered a spot on our list, just pending a right time to announce it.. 

Edited February 18, 20214 yr by dazzledavey36

On 2/11/2021 at 5:07 PM, Dannyz said:

Told Kobe has been offered a list spot with announcement to follow 

What's the go with this?

You posted this two weeks ago, Tim Lamb on the weekend said none of the 3 players who are training with us have been offered a spot as of yet and a decision is still yet to be made.

After watching Farmer on the weekend I would completely shocked if he made the list. Looked a long way off it.

23 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

What's the go with this?

You posted this two weeks ago, Tim Lamb on the weekend said none of the 3 players who are training with us have been offered a spot as of yet and a decision is still yet to be made.

After watching Farmer on the weekend I would completely shocked if he made the list. Looked a long way off it.

The kid has some serious talent.. needs a couple of pre season under his belt and has all the potential. 

He looked 'lost' for most of the practice game against Richmonds B and C graders.  I can't see him being given a rookie spot based on that performance.  If possible, I'd like to see him get a spot on the Casey list for the upcoming season.  That way we could ensure that he has a specifically tailored work program and see how he progresses.  Maybe a list spot next year IF he shows enough.

1 hour ago, Deeoldfart said:

He looked 'lost' for most of the practice game against Richmonds B and C graders.  I can't see him being given a rookie spot based on that performance.  If possible, I'd like to see him get a spot on the Casey list for the upcoming season.  That way we could ensure that he has a specifically tailored work program and see how he progresses.  Maybe a list spot next year IF he shows enough.

there is no way the club goes into this season with 3 unfilled spots. how is he going to progress more training at casey when he could train daily in an afl club? surely that is the best place to nurture him and if he doesn't show enough then he sees the door come end of 21

2 hours ago, bandicoot said:

The kid has some serious talent.. needs a couple of pre season under his belt and has all the potential. 

Does he?

If he has 'serious talent then he'd be on a list by now.

A 'serious talent' does not get overlooked in a national and rookie draft, then get overlooked by a father son club in Freo as well.

 

Edited February 28, 20214 yr by dazzledavey36

1 hour ago, Turner said:

there is no way the club goes into this season with 3 unfilled spots. how is he going to progress more training at casey when he could train daily in an afl club? surely that is the best place to nurture him and if he doesn't show enough then he sees the door come end of 21

3 is too many but 2 unfilled spots wouldn’t be unreasonable. That gives us 1 for a needs based pick at mid year if required ie. Majak or similar. And 1 for the best junior who was overlooked last year. There’s going to be quality juniors who didn’t get to show their stuff last season. 

If he’s a way off AFL footy then he’s had a great preseason and should make progress at Casey with or without being a full time footballer. As long as the coaching and physical development is good he really isn’t missing much once it’s in season, especially if he has heaps of room for improvement. 

Unfortunately Kobe looked way off in a B scratch match and is vying for a spot in a role we now have a lot of options in. I too would be gobsmacked if we rookied him but would expect we will encourage him to ply his development at Casey.