3 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

He wasn't their worst.

Hard to be the worst when you're in the same side as Schoenmakers.

5 hours ago, hells bells said:

I stand by my theory that no team will win a final with Jack Fitzpatrick playing.

Some people say the 2nd ruck/forward is an important spot as you both ruck and play forward. I say it's not because you can't be in 2 spots at once so you don't have to be great at either. But if you are taking Fitzy in to a final it's pretty clear you don't have a lot of forwards or a lot of ruck depth. You could win a final with him, but you'd want to have some very good tall forwards and a good number 1 ruck. The Hawks don't have either right now.

I've been saying it to my Hawks supporters to stir them up. I posted that before the game. He hasn't been their worst.  But my point is if he is getting a game, the squad isn't very strong. 

How do you fit both Fitzy and Vickery in the same side, don't they play the same role, or at least, in theory, shouldn't they?

 

agree Vickery and Fitz ... oohh no.  Hawks on the slide ??????

2 hours ago, Dante said:

How do you fit both Fitzy and Vickery in the same side, don't they play the same role, or at least, in theory, shouldn't they?

 

A tunnel ball side? 

Far from their worst last night, but they weren't very good. 

11 hours ago, hells bells said:

I've been saying it to my Hawks supporters to stir them up. I posted that before the game. He hasn't been their worst.  But my point is if he is getting a game, the squad isn't very strong. 

Plenty of not very good footballers have won flags by simply playing their role. Fitzy is a KPP, so it's a bit shallow to say the "squad isn't very strong" because he's getting a game. Be a bit different if Michie was in their midfield, but you can't compare the situations in such a shallow way.

Hawks have won 3 in a row, were a kick away from a prelim this year and will add O'Meara and likely one or 2 other good players via trade/free agency this year as they always do, I'm staggered by how much people are talking them down already.

 

They will make the 8 next year but their era of dominance is over. They won't contend for the flag next year. 

2 minutes ago, hells bells said:

They will make the 8 next year but their era of dominance is over. They won't contend for the flag next year. 

Roughead is a massive loss to their team, and with his playing future in doubt, they won't win a flag with their forward structure. And Vickery won't solve the problem.

7 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Roughead is a massive loss to their team, and with his playing future in doubt, they won't win a flag with their forward structure. And Vickery won't solve the problem.

Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Roughead are all 1 in 10-15 year players.

They can't replace that quality with Tom Mitchell, an injury prone O'Meara and Vickery and expect the dynasty to continue.  

14 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bit harsh on him. Wasn't too bad at all tonight. Got monsterd in the ruck by Roughead but around ground he was surprisingly calm.

Give him time with the Hawks attitudes & culture,  They straitened our Frawley.

He'll need another two seasons, & I reckon he'll fill out and grow mature

5 hours ago, Dante said:

How do you fit both Fitzy and Vickery in the same side, don't they play the same role, or at least, in theory, shouldn't they?

 

They will compete against one another. Creating competition to improve.

 

A team list isn't a pack of playing cards where you have one of each.

8 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Give him time with the Hawks attitudes & culture,  They straitened our Frawley.

He'll need another two seasons, & I reckon he'll fill out and grow mature

They will compete against one another. Creating competition to improve.

 

A team list isn't a pack of playing cards where you have one of each.

Yes, but you can have a pair of Aces, or a pair of Threes.

2 minutes ago, Dante said:

Yes, but you can have a pair of Aces, or a pair of Threes.

Yes, but the pair of threes come very cheap; on high quality paper, just not big on trumping others hands.  

But with the hawks spell weaving, magic often happens.  All of a sudden, you may have 2 Kings?

14 hours ago, boydie said:

Hard to be the worst when you're in the same side as Schoenmakers.

He will be on trade table 

I would suspect that more than a few Hawthorn players will be on the trade table if they want to get O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery.

Fitz was a good servant and I would normally wish him all the very best .

Since he has chosen Hawthorn as his club I wish him many losing games and continued failure.

4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I would suspect that more than a few Hawthorn players will be on the trade table if they want to get O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery.

This year's fist rounder (Mitchell) and next year's 1st rounders plus high second rounder they get for Hill to Freo (O'meara). Vickery will cost them a packet of twisties and a coke zero.

Hawk veterans have taken big pay cuts to make sc room

Edited September 17, 20168 yr by Moonshadow

9 hours ago, stuie said:

Plenty of not very good footballers have won flags by simply playing their role. Fitzy is a KPP, so it's a bit shallow to say the "squad isn't very strong" because he's getting a game. Be a bit different if Michie was in their midfield, but you can't compare the situations in such a shallow way.

Hawks have won 3 in a row, were a kick away from a prelim this year and will add O'Meara and likely one or 2 other good players via trade/free agency this year as they always do, I'm staggered by how much people are talking them down already.

 

The knock on Hawks is that their best players bar Cyril are 30 plus and slowing down. They are suspect in the midfield, down the spine and in the ruck. Of course they will do their best to utilise free agency and destination club status but it is difficult to see them finding solutions to all of those issues in 1 off season and the likes of Mitchell (34) Burgoyne (34) Hodge (33), Gibson (33) Lewis (31) will be another year older. Apart from Burton their kids have not been particularly impressive.

5 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I would suspect that more than a few Hawthorn players will be on the trade table if they want to get O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery.

They do seem to have a disciplined player payments structure. Be interesting to see where their top earner fits into the AFL's top earners. Might make a contrast to the Swans if their reported derisory offer to Tom Mitchell is true.

Brad Hill will be a big out. Hawks fans might find a him a favoured scapegoat but they'll miss his running power. They may be able to get away with only losing 2016 and 2017 draft picks and Hill for O'Meara and Mitchell but I suspect they may try to offload a few of their Jack Dyer Good Ordinary Footballers like Schoenmakers, O'Brien, Will Langford or Hartung for overs. Proceed with caution!

Edited September 17, 20168 yr by demoniac

23 minutes ago, demoniac said:

They do seem to have a disciplined player payments structure. Be interesting to see where their top earner fits into the AFL's top earners. Might make a contrast to the Swans if their reported derisory offer to Tom Mitchell is true.

Brad Hill will be a big out. Hawks fans might find a him a favoured scapegoat but they'll miss his running power. They may be able to get away with only losing 2016 and 2017 draft picks and Hill for O'Meara and Mitchell but I suspect they may try to offload a few of their Jack Dyer Good Ordinary Footballers like Schoenmakers, O'Brien, Will Langford or Hartung for overs. Proceed with caution!

talking of langford, what happened to him? was playing some great games last year then has seemed to disappear

10 hours ago, daisycutter said:

talking of langford, what happened to him? was playing some great games last year then has seemed to disappear

Flash in the pan with issues.

On 17 September 2016 at 0:08 PM, stuie said:

Hawks have won 3 in a row, were a kick away from a prelim this year and will add O'Meara and likely one or 2 other good players via trade/free agency this year as they always do, I'm staggered by how much people are talking them down already.

 

Hill is going. He was one of their best against the 'Dogs. They have stuck with those old blokes...so they add O'Meara. That's a huge gamble. I'd be deeply worried if we'd picked up O'Meara. Maybe he will recover and play to his potential. Maybe won't. If he doesn't then in 12 months time the Hawks are really looking down the barrel. Say they pick up Mitchell as well this year...they still miss Hill's run. And Roughy, we all hope he recovers his health but he is something like 29 years old - actually will be 30 before the next pre-season is over - and will have missed a year...may never hit the heights again even if he becomes match fit.

I like their outlook. Because I hate them.

Edited September 18, 20168 yr by pitmaster

So after the flurry of excitement at the end of the season with Jack playing finals for Hawthorn, he gets delisted.

Will another club pick him up?

He may well be picked up by a club in the NTL*

 

 

*National Tunnelball League