POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 17

[Blue-and-red 91]

Our ability to over use handball and particularly to handball to another player in a worst position is unsurpassed!

[CityDee 738]

Impatient I am but why do we try beat teams at there own game ? . First  quaters  pressure was good they lifted and are better at it so why not spread them out by foot and kick effectively to score . Gameplan . worked for the cats against the dogs. Quick deck fast team . 

[_becks_ 35]

Mitch White can go back to VFL and never play AFL again as far as i am concerned. He was seriously hopeless today. Beaten in one on ones, too slow, poor disposal, sh!thouse.

Harmes doing the kick outs? ummmm.....i don't get it

White, Harmes, Grimes, Kennedy, VandenBerg (in current form) cannot all play in the same team again, far far too many passengers.

Neal-Bullen had 37 disposals at Casey, seriously give him a game!

We need Salem back. 

 

 

[Wizza 170]

Needed to handball it more to have any sort of chance #sarcasm

[jnrmac 19,536]

Many of us warned that the Essendon game was a danger game but the coaching staff were clueless.We forecast a problem with the Saints at Etihad in round 6 and could not have played a worse game. 18 uncontested marks inside 50 to the Saints. What did the caoching staff do? NADA. 

Today was a carbon copy. WTF are our coachig staff doing? We all knew what the Saints would do. Exactly what they did in Rd 6. And we were right again. Yet we played dumb dumb football threw too many at the contest let them flip it outside and run it down the outer side. Deja vous all over again

Yet again Tom Mac has spectacular brainfades when the ball comes or when he takes a sound grab and tries to play on. Yet again a spud like Membrey has a day out on us.

Yet again Montagna, Reiwoldt and Steven have a day out on us.

Yet again Oscar Mac is bustled off the ball 10 time in a game. I don't get what he adds to to the team at this point but we can't keep taking so many inexperienced players into the backline each week It's soul destroying.

MIdfielders going missing; Tyson and Vandenburg. VB is due a spell at Casey. Has done nothing since his return.

Gawn getting jumped into by Hickey at every stoppage. Garlett and Kent go missing again in a loss.

The chopping the arms rule has been thrown out.

I am over making the same mistakes week after week.

 

 

[stuie 7,374]

14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That's not an answer.  Who would you have selected that would have won us the game.  No going around in circles Stuie, no sarcastic and over the top responses.  If you want to go with that narrative I'd love to know exactly who from Casey would have helped us win that game of football today.

As I've said previously, it's not about individual players who are better or worse, I know you're trying to lay that trap. It's about the team dynamic as a unit and the conditions we are playing in. You're missing the point by trying to say something like "Vince is better than ANB blah blah", it's about the ability to run out a game as a unit.

We lost today because we couldn't keep up with them from about 1/4 time.

 

[MrBurns 36]

The Saints just know that we just ease off and they crank into third gear.  Same names destroy us:

1.  Saint Nick

2.  Mav Weller

3.  Leigh Lasagne

4.  Membrey

 

[Akum 2,660]

1 minute ago, Blue-and-red said:

Our ability to over use handball and particularly to handball to another player in a worst position is unsurpassed!

True, but they simply know how to close us up.

And once they close us up, we're just as perplexed about what to do next as we were in the Neeld era. We just don't know what to do, on the field or in the box.

That's the big thing holding us back. Individually we're a 10 goals better team, but by playing a team game they make us look stupid.

[DeViney 13]

Think the Frost out hurt us tonight as well. Thought going into the game him playing in defence would have been an important point of difference from our R6 game.

His ability to cover space quickly in the back line has been important when teams are in transition against us. 

[beelzebub 22,800]

Melb 30 mins footy

Saints 90 mins footy

Simple really

[stuie 7,374]

21 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

You obviously didn't see the Casey game - slim pickings there

Missing the point.

It's not about talent it's about being able to run out the game.

See ANB's game by the way?

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, stuie said:

As I've said previously, it's not about individual players who are better or worse, I know you're trying to lay that trap. It's about the team dynamic as a unit and the conditions we are playing in. You're missing the point by trying to say something like "Vince is better than ANB blah blah", it's about the ability to run out a game as a unit.

We lost today because we couldn't keep up with them from about 1/4 time.

 

You're evading the question superbly.  You do that well, mate.  If we lost it on Thursday night, what would you have done differently?  Asking you to name selections is not a trap, it's fact.  If we lost it there, which players did we not bring in to fix it?  What 2-3-4 players would have helped us run out that game, and in turn, helped us to win it?  Team dynamic means you SELECT the best team possible.  So what did we do wrong?  Who should have played and who shouldn't have?

[stuie 7,374]

14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I just reckon it's a shallow excuse and, believe it or not, I think Stuie should know better.  If we don't go out there with the right mindset and we haven't planned for a side correctly then it doesn't matter what cattle you have on the park - you'll lose.  Why he keeps running with this narrative is beyond me.

Because the one time we've won at Etihad it's what we did.

It's not hard.

[Stillwaiting 60]

Nothing has changed. We still play players who have no heart for a hard contest. Fancy getting done by that p155 w34k team who are just very average rabble. Time to send a message to those who choose to run from hard work and always flounder for their money. Leadership is barren once again. Roos has no way of motivating when we are being done over. And worse of all are the pathetic losers/bleaters who say........................................"Stick with us, give us time". Acceptance of this sort of performance has now killed this club.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,643]

It's the white away jumpers again!

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

You're evading the question superbly.  You do that well, mate.  If we lost it on Thursday night, what would you have done differently?  Asking you to name selections is not a trap, it's fact.  If we lost it there, which players did we not bring in to fix it?  What 2-3-4 players would have helped us run out that game, and in turn, helped us to win it?  Team dynamic means you SELECT the best team possible.  So what did we do wrong?  Who should have played and who shouldn't have?

I'm not "evading" anything, you're just not getting the point and trying to change it to suit what you want to say.

I know exactly how this goes... I say, "I would have brought in players 1, 2 and 3", then you say "You really think those players are better than players 4, 5 and 6?!".. And you miss the point yet again.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, stuie said:

I'm not "evading" anything, you're just not getting the point and trying to change it to suit what you want to say.

I know exactly how this goes... I say, "I would have brought in players 1, 2 and 3", then you say "You really think those players are better than players 4, 5 and 6?!".. And you miss the point yet again.

 

I'm not missing the point at all.  If we lost it at selection, which is what you started off saying -  "We lost it on Thursday night."  What would you have done differently?

[Deemented Are Go! 3,643]

...and welcome back to the stuie and wiseblood show! 

[Undeeterred 2,908]

32 minutes ago, stuie said:

Lost it on Thursday night.

 

Name your changes Stu.

Humour me - seriously give me however many names you want and then we can discuss what difference that would have made.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

We lost today because we couldn't keep up with them from about 1/4 time.

 

Stu, I don't mean to sound condescending but that is such shallow and simplistic explanation of what happened.

It's the kind of thing somebody who doesn't really know what else to say, will say.

You say that we couldn't keep up with them after quarter time. 

Here's why we lost:

Yet again, the inconsistency in decision making and skill execution from so so many of our players today after 1/4 time was it. 

It is nothing more than our ability to make the same errors consistently that cost us the game. 

That is it Stu. Nothing to do with not having fresh legs.

We are simply a team who have players who at the top of their game are really valuable, but too many times we see them having down games and games in which their skill execution and decision making is way below what it needs to be.

[Return to Glory 7,869]

An after the fact observation perhaps (thought about it whilst we were giving up 7 goals in a row) but - whilst I can't stand them, the one thing you can say about Hawthorn is that they deliver a certain standard virtually every week. Often they are great, yes, but rarely are they poor. That's professionalism. We're a long way from that as it stands. A very long way.

We have too many who are the proverbial 'confidence players'. If I took a look at the team today I'd say Kennedy, Garlett, Petracca, Matt Jones, Kent, Watts (not so much this year) and Hogan all fall into this category. St Kilda lauds it over us because they know we can move to shite poor very quickly because the collective belief of the team is often shaky.

And yet we have a bloke like Viney whose willingness to fight the fight is innate.

I have no idea what the solution is. Other than alcohol.

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Return to Glory

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Deemented Are Go! said:

...and welcome back to the stuie and wiseblood show! 

To be fair, I rarely have a discussion like this with Stu.  Plus we're not getting personal, it's just part of the discussion about the game.  If we lost it at selection, which he says we did, I'm only asking him what we should have done differently.

[Undeeterred 2,908]

33 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

inept handball is not the issue. We are trying to develop a fast Adelaide Crows style game which is demanding of hand passing accuracy under pressure and takes time to get right and involves mistakes inevitably.

I am putting today down to a Darwin high temperature high humidity hangover. Robbie is right. This was lost partly at selection - not enough fresh legs and too few 'ins'.

But I am really sick of losing to those frauds.

Which changes would you have made? Name some specific players, instead of just blaming the selectors on principle.

[Binmans PA 26,872]

1 hour ago, Akum said:

If teams let us play the corridor, we look great.

If they close up the corridor, we have very few other ways of moving the ball forwards.

And we get smashed by teams that have a system at stoppages and can tie up our Auskick British Bulldogs tactics.

It is certainly Russian roulette from the back when our guys only run one way. Half forwards running off half back, if we win it, we look amazing and our scoring power is potentially irresistible, but Goodwin needs to find some tweaks to the system, because it's all the apples in one basket. We got burned a number of times today. It's frustrating how similar this game was to the earlier loss against these flogs.

Edited July 17, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Binmans PA 26,872]

19 minutes ago, Theo said:

Handball happy as usual. Brayshaw's decisi

 

It's not Darwin it's the team. I was in Darwin last  week and it was a perfect night. Low humidity. The ground was wet from watering. Hawthorn wouldn't f---ing lose after playing there. Sick of Darwin always being the excuse

Freo also didn't seem to struggle this week. In fact, they were better.