POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, leave it to deever said:

Dawes does compete and throws his 105 kg around but he cant mark or kick goals. He just isnt that skilled. He was great in Collingwood as a second to Cloke in a team that provided much delivery but he is a shadow of that player today. Maybe its confidence but we wont win games with him in our forward line.

A third forward tall is desperately needed. Peferably one that can ruck

Agree, but it's not Pedo.

 

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Holy garbage it was painful. I think we have to drop Dawes and play smaller or rest some of our backs there. It pains me to see Dawes getting regular games and someone like Grimes being told they aren't part of the future. This is absolute szhit. He is not a target yet he played closest to goal most of the time and Watts got moved back- what the hell is that for a tactic.

Also- Vince and Petracca playing off half back? I think Roos is closing up shop with some of this coaching. 

WE MISS TARGETS BY HAND AS REGULARLY AS BY FOOT.

Despite his possessions (N) Jones' disposal was really disappointing

Stat of the game: Matt Jones used the ball at 90%, Nathan at 48.5% 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Je Roos Salem

[Forest Demon 4,681]

1 minute ago, Wizza said:

Too many mistakes that cost us. Tysons dropped mark in the last which resulted in an Adelaide goal and ultimately ended our chances is just one example of an error riddled game. The fact we are competitive after turning the ball over so many times give me hope. Just need to stop screwing things up.

I actually forgot that one until you mentioned it, probably only because there was so many similar stuff ups. That was a crucial simple mistake, and they happened far too frequently today.

[Ricky P 757]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

We lost to Essendon. You can live in fantasy land if you want, up to you.

The rest of your post is just silly, winning games is not "just a stat", it's the whole point.

And again, I'm not interested in "we'll probably win....", how has that worked out for us in the past?

Talking about improvement, not being "World beaters".

 

 

You win. You have misunderstood each and every point I've made. I actually don't know how to fight that.  

[titan_uranus 24,617]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Agree, but it's not Pedo.

If the choice right now is Pedersen or Dawes, the answer is Pedersen and there is no cogent argument to sustain in favour of Dawes.

Long-term, I think you're right (not sure if Weed or Hulett are the second-ruck type players).

[leave it to deever 17,451]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That might be the most frustrating loss we've had in years.

I disagree with those who think Adelaide was "off". They played this game how they play every game. Do they have a single player out injured? (Seedsman maybe?). But we tightened up in the contest in the second quarter and hit them harder. We forced them into mistakes through the middle and we were bold going forward. They lifted in the third and for the first 5 minutes we couldn't match them at all, but we steadied and evened it up. Had Kennedy not rushed his shot on goal in the fourth, we'd have had all the momentum and only 3 points down. Could have played out very differently from there.

It felt like 23 vs 21 out there with Dawes. Every time he went near it he stuffed it up. Can't mark, can hardly move, can't kick, can't handpass, can't or won't ruck. Must, must be dropped.

Compare him to Watts who was brilliant everywhere (bar the goal he gave up to Betts when he went to ground). Rucked, spent time at FB, and still dominated forward with 3 goals.

Garlett showed why we need him firing in our seniors. Kent was much improved. It's all been said but Hunt is a gem. Petracca showed he can move through the forward line. Jetta again stood up as a true leader down there.

In defence, I actually thought that, as defenders, Frost, TMac and even OMac looked fine. The problem is when we take possession - all three are awful kicks (OMac is scared of kicking it, though), all three make poor decisions, TMac and Frost try to take it on without thinking too often. Defensively, I was impressed, but I was disappointed offensively with these three.

Gutted, but there is still plenty to work with.

Finally, to quell all the crap from people who don't think we've improved because we haven't beaten anyone we didn't beat last year (a pretty dumb analysis IMO), the fact we are this upset about losing to a premiership contender who has hardly been troubled for the last six weeks should, when coupled with watching us play, explain to you that your analysis is baseless.

Great analysis except that O mac isnt up to yet.

Crows are a bloody good side and we took it right up to them

 

[Juicebox 628]

All of a sudden, none of our wins this year seem that impressive. A couple of our losses have been very ordinary. One loss in particular was a disgrace...

Despite the talent and potential on the list, this year is actually shaping up to be quite ordinary. We haven't done anything special. We blew it today. Adelaide were miles off their best and we couldn't get the job done. 

Finals? Get stuffed! Still plenty of work to do.

 

 

 

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That might be the most frustrating loss we've had in years.

I disagree with those who think Adelaide was "off". They played this game how they play every game. Do they have a single player out injured? (Seedsman maybe?). But we tightened up in the contest in the second quarter and hit them harder. We forced them into mistakes through the middle and we were bold going forward. They lifted in the third and for the first 5 minutes we couldn't match them at all, but we steadied and evened it up. Had Kennedy not rushed his shot on goal in the fourth, we'd have had all the momentum and only 3 points down. Could have played out very differently from there.

It felt like 23 vs 21 out there with Dawes. Every time he went near it he stuffed it up. Can't mark, can hardly move, can't kick, can't handpass, can't or won't ruck. Must, must be dropped.

Compare him to Watts who was brilliant everywhere (bar the goal he gave up to Betts when he went to ground). Rucked, spent time at FB, and still dominated forward with 3 goals.

Garlett showed why we need him firing in our seniors. Kent was much improved. It's all been said but Hunt is a gem. Petracca showed he can move through the forward line. Jetta again stood up as a true leader down there.

In defence, I actually thought that, as defenders, Frost, TMac and even OMac looked fine. The problem is when we take possession - all three are awful kicks (OMac is scared of kicking it, though), all three make poor decisions, TMac and Frost try to take it on without thinking too often. Defensively, I was impressed, but I was disappointed offensively with these three.

Gutted, but there is still plenty to work with.

Finally, to quell all the crap from people who don't think we've improved because we haven't beaten anyone we didn't beat last year (a pretty dumb analysis IMO), the fact we are this upset about losing to a premiership contender who has hardly been troubled for the last six weeks should, when coupled with watching us play, explain to you that your analysis is baseless.

Spot on analysis titan, as always.  It's always good to see a few paragraphs of a well thought out analysis of a game, rather than a sentence that just pots a player and gives little else.

Your last paragraph is on the money, too.  We are such a better side than we were two years ago.  I saw a stat today that we have kicked 5 goals or more in a quarter 8 times this year, including today.  When was the last time we did that?  There are so many good things happening around the club at the moment, we just need to convert some of them in to wins.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

I thought Buggs handpass to Bernie, who I think kicked a goal, in the last was crucial, wasn't allowed, not sure why?

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

If the choice right now is Pedersen or Dawes, the answer is Pedersen and there is no cogent argument to sustain in favour of Dawes.

Long-term, I think you're right (not sure if Weed or Hulett are the second-ruck type players).

Feel free to email Roosy then, because he's the one picking Dawes over Pedo.

 

[Chris 2,892]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Agree, but it's not Pedo.

 

Not long term but he is still the best option short term while the two at Casey develop more. 

[Moneider96 1,045]

1 minute ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I thought Buggs handpass to Bernie, who I think kicked a goal, in the last was crucial, wasn't allowed, not sure why?

Bernie missed. Maybe even out on the full.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Feel free to email Roosy then, because he's the one picking Dawes over Pedo.

 

In all seriousness stuie, Dawes was horrible today.  I have agreed in the past about his positive impact on our structure, but he was woeful today.  He needs to do much, much more.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

In all seriousness stuie, Dawes was horrible today.  I have agreed in the past about his positive impact on our structure, but he was woeful today.  He needs to do much, much more.

No I agree, he was poor today, but please enlighten me as to Pedo's amazing VFL form that warrants him getting selected...

 

[Chris 2,892]

3 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I thought Buggs handpass to Bernie, who I think kicked a goal, in the last was crucial, wasn't allowed, not sure why?

Bernie ran infront of Bugg to recieve when he has to run behind, that was the comentary explination anyway

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

1 minute ago, Moneider96 said:

Bernie missed. Maybe even out on the full.

Really, I thought he kicked it, then the play on was not allowed, and the ball was bought back...

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

No I agree, he was poor today, but please enlighten me as to Pedo's amazing VFL form that warrants him getting selected...

 

Careful stuie, I never said anything about Pedo whatsoever.  I was merely stating that Dawes was woeful today and that he needs to do more, otherwise they will make a change, whether that's Pedo, Hulett or Weideman.

[Ricky P 757]

14 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That might be the most frustrating loss we've had in years.

I disagree with those who think Adelaide was "off". They played this game how they play every game. Do they have a single player out injured? (Seedsman maybe?). But we tightened up in the contest in the second quarter and hit them harder. We forced them into mistakes through the middle and we were bold going forward. They lifted in the third and for the first 5 minutes we couldn't match them at all, but we steadied and evened it up. Had Kennedy not rushed his shot on goal in the fourth, we'd have had all the momentum and only 3 points down. Could have played out very differently from there.

It felt like 23 vs 21 out there with Dawes. Every time he went near it he stuffed it up. Can't mark, can hardly move, can't kick, can't handpass, can't or won't ruck. Must, must be dropped.

Compare him to Watts who was brilliant everywhere (bar the goal he gave up to Betts when he went to ground). Rucked, spent time at FB, and still dominated forward with 3 goals.

Garlett showed why we need him firing in our seniors. Kent was much improved. It's all been said but Hunt is a gem. Petracca showed he can move through the forward line. Jetta again stood up as a true leader down there.

In defence, I actually thought that, as defenders, Frost, TMac and even OMac looked fine. The problem is when we take possession - all three are awful kicks (OMac is scared of kicking it, though), all three make poor decisions, TMac and Frost try to take it on without thinking too often. Defensively, I was impressed, but I was disappointed offensively with these three.

Gutted, but there is still plenty to work with.

Finally, to quell all the crap from people who don't think we've improved because we haven't beaten anyone we didn't beat last year (a pretty dumb analysis IMO), the fact we are this upset about losing to a premiership contender who has hardly been troubled for the last six weeks should, when coupled with watching us play, explain to you that your analysis is baseless.

Great post.

[Winners at last 5,155]

 I agree, Bernie missed.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Careful stuie, I never said anything about Pedo whatsoever.  I was merely stating that Dawes was woeful today and that he needs to do more, otherwise they will make a change, whether that's Pedo, Hulett or Weideman.

No disagreement at all there WB. He had a poor game. Just always find it funny how he has one off game and the Pedo myths start again.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

No disagreement at all there WB. He had a poor game. Just always find it funny how he has one off game and the Pedo myths start again.

 

I can understand why they do, though.  The one thing Pedersen has over Dawes at the moment is that he hits the scoreboard and he is willing to take the second ruck role, even though he doesn't necessarily do a much better job than Watts is doing at present.  

It would be terrific if, say, Hulett stepped up and made the argument redundant, but we might need to wait a little longer before that happens.  Until then having either Dawes or Pedersen in the side makes little difference.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

Bernie ran infront of Bugg to recieve when he has to run behind, that was the comentary explination anyway

Ah, I see....cheers.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I can understand why they do, though.  The one thing Pedersen has over Dawes at the moment is that he hits the scoreboard and he is willing to take the second ruck role, even though he doesn't necessarily do a much better job than Watts is doing at present.  

It would be terrific if, say, Hulett stepped up and made the argument redundant, but we might need to wait a little longer before that happens.  Until then having either Dawes or Pedersen in the side makes little difference.

Ok, so again, how's Pedo's VFL form? This all just reeks of absence making the heart grow fonder a bit...

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

34 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

That's the first loss that has genuinely hurt in about 10 years! I really think we could've won and would still be a sneaky chance of the finals if we had. I spose that's a good thing.

Carlton last year. Essendon last year. St Kilda last year. Essendon this year.

21 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Dawes does compete and throws his 105 kg around but he cant mark or kick goals. He just isnt that skilled. He was great in Collingwood as a second to Cloke in a team that provided much delivery but he is a shadow of that player today. Maybe its confidence but we wont win games with him in our forward line.

He couldn't mark then either. Was a surprise we went after him.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,676]

22 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I thought Buggs handpass to Bernie, who I think kicked a goal, in the last was crucial, wasn't allowed, not sure why?

I thought Bernie missed?