How many wins will we end up with in 2016

[jumbo returns 6,741]

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The CEO Predicted finals at the AGM in 2015

if we don't get there the club has not reached its goal

it's way over time that this club got really tough on itself

no one else can do it

I think that PJ underestimated the debacle that was the MFC.

Coupled with that, the list was atrocious.

Our youngsters will click very soon and take a big scalp.

At least, this time, we have genuine talent.

I predict 10 to 11 wins.

[DubDee 25,869]

Pies, dockers, Saints, Suns and Carlton. 

5 more wins. = 10 for the year. 

I'd  be happy with that. Odds are that we'll lose one of the above and snatch one against port or maybe Hawks unexpectedly

[Adam The God 30,259]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Spot on Sailing

after 3 seasons we still do not know which Melbourne is going to turn up. 

If this is still happening in Roosy's 3rd year then we have not come far at all. 

IT WAS THE PLAYERS WHO WANTED TO BE COACHED BY ROOSY...

But they have not bought in 100%

I understand the frustration, but IMO the entire list is a whole lot stronger than it was when Roosy first came in. But that means we've now got a very young team, meaning there will be major inconsistencies in performance in the short term. The guys I don't excuse from those inconsistencies are the 25+ players such as Jones, Vince, Dunn, Garland, Garlett, Lumumba etc. Compare those to Carlton's B grade leaders and they're getting a much greater output.

However, people watching Carlton and lamenting our slow rise in comparison, simply don't understand football. If anyone thinks Carlton's list has remotely any chance of pushing into the top 4 in the next decade is kidding themselves. Sure, they've got a couple of B graders right now (in their late 20s) that are propping them up and winning them games, along with Bolton's systems, but they are going nowhere with that list.

If people can't see what we're building down here, they may as well just put their glasses down for a few seasons and come back when we're consistently pushing for the top 4 in 3-4 years time.

Midfields win premierships. No debating that. Shall we compare Carlton's under 25's? Cripps, Docherty (maybe). Horrible. Just a horrible, horrible list. And if they keep winning, they will deny themselves access to the country's top talent. Sure, they might be able to pick up an A grader here or there from the FA market in the next 5-6 years, but given SOS' build of GWS, I wouldn't trust him to rebuild their list from the draft anyway. They're ultimately building for a middle of the road result. In comparison, we're building for sustained success.

Now I know we've been burnt by inexperienced and misguided FD's before, but let's do a conservative comparison with Melbourne's under 25 midfield. Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, along with elite talent like Salem. Not to mention an elite young CHF (tracking statistically stronger than the greats of the game) and another KPF in Weideman who is tracking on a similar trajectory to Hogan's first VFL season.

But we're also not done building our midfield yet either. We'll add Prestia next year and another A grader in FA over the next 2-3 years and our midfield will compete in the top 4 with the only other sides that will remotely come close to our young midfield in GWS and the Bulldogs. If our systems click, we could surpass the Bulldogs in 18 months time. Who else competes with the access to top-end talent that we have had? It'll be GWS, Bulldogs and Melbourne, as the GCS implode and lose all their young stars in Prestia, Swallow and O'Meara. Melbourne's midfield will be the envy of the majority of the competition in 5 years time.

Edited June 12, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

28 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I think that PJ underestimated the debacle that was the MFC.

Coupled with that, the list was atrocious.

Our youngsters will click very soon and take a big scalp.

At least, this time, we have genuine talent.

I predict 10 to 11 wins.

PJ has not underestimated the debacle. He has seen it closer than anyone. It was he who went in to repair the damage from the bottom up. 

Look it's simple 

if we miss the finals in 2016, (losing to Essendrug) The FD and players have failed to reach the target. That will be very disappointing as i believe we have recruited some talent. 

But the "soft" element is still there. and in Roosy's 3rd year with the new coach already employed i find this very worrying. 

What is Goodwin going to say to players about it that has not already been said??

[Tony Tea 2,809]

I keep droning on about it, but Clarko Footy.

Since 2006 we have only beaten Clarko footy ONCE.

The Western Bulldogs in round 8 last year before the Dogs found their mojo.

Don't bank on us beating St Kilda, Carlton and West Coast the rest of this year.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Also, we play Freo in Darwin, so I wouldn't bank on that, either.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

PJ has not underestimated the debacle. He has seen it closer than anyone. It was he who went in to repair the damage from the bottom up. 

Look it's simple 

if we miss the finals in 2016, (losing to Essendrug) The FD and players have failed to reach the target. That will be very disappointing as i believe we have recruited some talent. 

But the "soft" element is still there. and in Roosy's 3rd year with the new coach already employed i find this very worrying. 

What is Goodwin going to say to players about it that has not already been said??

I think that structures and consistency take longer than we think.

For want of a better metaphor, Roos has now got everyone sitting in the right seats of the success 'bus'.

The driver is now Goody.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

12 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

I understand the frustration, but IMO the entire list is a whole lot stronger than it was when Roosy first came in. But that means we've now got a very young team, meaning there will be major inconsistencies in performance in the short term. The guys I don't excuse from those inconsistencies are the 25+ players such as Jones, Vince, Dunn, Garland, Garlett, Lumumba etc. Compare those to Carlton's B grade leaders and they're getting a much greater output.

However, people watching Carlton and lamenting our slow rise in comparison, simply don't understand football. If anyone thinks Carlton's list has remotely any chance of pushing into the top 4 in the next decade is kidding themselves. Sure, they've got a couple of B graders right now (in their late 20s) that are propping them up and winning them games, along with Bolton's systems, but they are going nowhere with that list.

If people can't see what we're building down here, they may as well just put their glasses down for a few seasons and come back when we're consistently pushing for the top 4 in 3-4 years time.

Midfields win premierships. No debating that. Shall we compare Carlton's under 25's? Cripps, Docherty (maybe). Horrible. Just a horrible, horrible list. And if they keep winning, they will deny themselves access to the country's top talent. Sure, they might be able to pick up an A grader here or there from the FA market in the next 5-6 years, but given SOS' build of GWS, I wouldn't trust him to rebuild their list from the draft anyway. They're ultimately building for a middle of the road result. In comparison, we're building for sustained success.

Now I know we've been burnt by inexperienced and misguided FD's before, but let's do a conservative comparison with Melbourne's under 25 midfield. Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, along with elite talent like Salem. Not to mention an elite young CHF (tracking statistically stronger than the greats of the game) and another KPF in Weideman who is tracking on a similar trajectory to Hogan's first VFL season.

But we're also not done building our midfield yet either. We'll add Prestia next year and another A grader in FA over the next 2-3 years and our midfield will compete in the top 4 with the only other sides that will remotely come close to our young midfield in GWS and the Bulldogs. If our systems click, we could surpass the Bulldogs in 18 months time. Who else competes with the access to top-end talent that we have had? It'll be GWS, Bulldogs and Melbourne, as the GCS implode and lose all their young stars in Prestia, Swallow and O'Meara. Melbourne's midfield will be the envy of the majority of the competition in 5 years time.

Fair points. But why are the senior players letting the side down, when it was they who wanted Roos as coach?

3 years is long enough to recover from bad times

With the digital age upon us i have to relearn most of my job every 2-3 months. That is how quick new equipment appears. 

I hate it. But i have no choice

A lot of our list has skill. But they refuse to hurt past the pain threshold like the top teams do

[Adam The God 30,259]

18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Fair points. But why are the senior players letting the side down, when it was they who wanted Roos as coach?

3 years is long enough to recover from bad times

With the digital age upon us i have to relearn most of my job every 2-3 months. That is how quick new equipment appears. 

I hate it. But i have no choice

A lot of our list has skill. But they refuse to hurt past the pain threshold like the top teams do

Jones, Dunn, Garland, Watts and Tom McDonald were the guys that 'wanted Roos as coach'. Watts has clearly improved his game and McDonald is getting used to the new systems - I'd argue he hasn't improved much, but is still young enough to do so. But Jones, Dunn and Garland don't know how to win. They haven't done it enough and also don't have the talent to consistently impact. Jones is ultimately a B grader and a terrific servant of our footy club, but is a bit like Cotchin in that he can get a lot of the ball, but doesn't win games off his own boot very often.

As I said, I don't excuse our inconsistent 25+, but hopefully I've explained why they are mentally weaker than our B graders at say Carlton, who haven't sustained such a horror run of form as those guys have.

[McQueen 17,864]

Clarkson commented in his post match that we're on the way and will cause some upsets in the second half of the season. He also mentioned we could finish in the 8.

I tend to agree.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

2 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Jones, Dunn, Garland, Watts and Tom McDonald were the guys that 'wanted Roos as coach'. Watts has clearly improved his game and McDonald is getting used to the new systems - I'd argue he hasn't improved much, but is still young enough to do so. But Jones, Dunn and Garland don't know how to win. They haven't done it enough and also don't have the talent to consistently impact. Jones is ultimately a B grader and a terrific servant of our footy club, but is a bit like Cotchin in that he can get a lot of the ball, but doesn't win games off his own boot very often.

As I said, I don't excuse our inconsistent 25+, but hopefully I've explained why they are mentally weaker than our B graders at say Carlton, who haven't sustained such a horror run of form as those guys have.

I think Bolton is underestimated. 

Carlton's list was a total mess but they are winning. 

People keep telling me our list is better. On paper only as of today. 

I don't give a flying fcuk about next year. I have next year to worry about that. 

I want to see The MFC TASTE finals in 2016

2017 could be totally different

(remember preseason '95)

 

[Adam The God 30,259]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I think Bolton is underestimated. 

Carlton's list was a total mess but they are winning. 

People keep telling me our list is better. On paper only as of today. 

I don't give a flying fcuk about next year. I have next year to worry about that. 

I want to see The MFC TASTE finals in 2016

2017 could be totally different

(remember preseason '95)

And there was angst down at Geelong under Thompson before their dynasty clicked. Inexperience shouldn't mean you can't beat anyone, but it will mean that inconsistency will occur. We almost have more wins than last year already. Win tomorrow and we're a victory away from levelling last year's return at the half way point of the season.

I know many of our supporters are scarred and will take time to trust again. I get that. But the rest of the footy industry has woken up to our list and they realise we could be a really powerful force in the not to distant future. It's about patience, that many supporters probably feel have been expended already.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

40 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

And there was angst down at Geelong under Thompson before their dynasty clicked. Inexperience shouldn't mean you can't beat anyone, but it will mean that inconsistency will occur. We almost have more wins than last year already. Win tomorrow and we're a victory away from levelling last year's return at the half way point of the season.

I know many of our supporters are scarred and will take time to trust again. I get that. But the rest of the footy industry has woken up to our list and they realise we could be a really powerful force in the not to distant future. It's about patience, that many supporters probably feel have been expended already.

I get what you are saying

what i don't see (yet) is the 100% fight from every player. 

Now i thought Roosy would have that ingredient sorted in early 2014. We see glimpses and then it falls away really quickly. 

It's a big job for Goodwin...

[John Demonic 5,796]

23 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Anything under 12 wins is a fail in Roosy's 3rd year...

I can imagine you hushing your game-watching pals after round 23 celebrations mildly saying 'i would have been ecstatic with 14, but meh, 12 is a pass... just."

Edited June 12, 2016 by johndemons

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

10 minutes ago, johndemons said:

I can imagine you hushing your game-watching pals after round 23 celebrations mildly saying 'i would have been ecstatic with 14, but meh, 12 is a pass... just."

12 is above 50% mate

Pure Maths

when did this club last win 4-5 in a row?

the good clubs set those standards and just do it. 

At The MFC the Ghosts of the past are used as an excuse. Why should any player still be effected by the 2011-14 years?

they are being well bloody paid. 

Just put your head down and work your ass off, at training & on matchday....

[Adam The God 30,259]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

12 is above 50% mate

Pure Maths

when did this club last win 4-5 in a row?

the good clubs set those standards and just do it. 

At The MFC the Ghosts of the past are used as an excuse. Why should any player still be effected by the 2011-14 years?

they are being well bloody paid. 

Just put your head down and work your ass off, at training & on matchday....

Mate, you're the only one using ghosts of the past. The majority of our inconsistency comes from our younger players.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

31 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Mate, you're the only one using ghosts of the past. The majority of our inconsistency comes from our younger players.

No its the senior players including our captain not playing smart football

BEING THE LEADERS OUR KIDS NEED

We have been through this all before. 

The cycle is yet to be broken and Roos is gone in 3 months....

[Skin Deeamond 339]

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

12 is above 50% mate

Pure Maths

when did this club last win 4-5 in a row?

the good clubs set those standards and just do it. 

At The MFC the Ghosts of the past are used as an excuse. Why should any player still be effected by the 2011-14 years?

they are being well bloody paid. 

Just put your head down and work your ass off, at training & on matchday....

They aren't that well paid. They can only play for a few years. Also it's only the really top players who earn quite high salaries compared with most Australians- E.g. Lance Franklin. Many then suffer long term arthritis and other conditions from their time in the AFL. Most end up doing menial jobs after AFL with poor incomes for the rest of their lives. Don't compare footballers' salaries with your salary, compare them with top English football players' earnings: they earn millions. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Skin D
Addition

[beelzebub 23,376]

1 minute ago, Skin D said:

They aren't that well paid. They can only play for a few years. Many then suffer long term arthritis and other conditions from their time in the AFL. Most end up doing menial jobs after AFL with poor incomes for the rest of their lives. Compare top English football players' earnings: they earn millions.

The poor diddums ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

3 hours ago, Skin D said:

They aren't that well paid. They can only play for a few years. Also it's only the really top players who earn quite high salaries compared with most Australians- E.g. Lance Franklin. Many then suffer long term arthritis and other conditions from their time in the AFL. Most end up doing menial jobs after AFL with poor incomes for the rest of their lives. Don't compare footballers' salaries with your salary, compare them with top English football players' earnings: they earn millions. 

Spare me the tears and violins please...

footballers today do ok

Back in Norm's day only the senior side got paid!!

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

16 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No its the senior players including our captain not playing smart football

BEING THE LEADERS OUR KIDS NEED

We have been through this all before. 

The cycle is yet to be broken and Roos is gone in 3 months....

Sometimes I think Jones looks too content and comfortable in his position.  Don't sense the fire in his belly to drag this club out of the doldrums.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

12 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Sometimes I think Jones looks too content and comfortable in his position.  Don't sense the fire in his belly to drag this club out of the doldrums.

Neither do i, but i have to say it quietly around here...

[Radar Detector 1,347]

On 12 June 2016 at 2:24 AM, ProDee said:

Ten wins will be a solid launching pad for 2017.

Nine is the bare minimum for me, but I'm hoping for 10.

Monday is vitally important. 

Spot on

[Radar Detector 1,347]

On 12 June 2016 at 2:27 AM, ProDee said:

Last year we had unexpected wins against Geelong and the Dogs, but we haven't really had the equivalent this year.  I still think we will. 

Beating Adelaide at the 'G works for me. 

The win against GWS was probably this year's equivalent of the dogs win. Good side early in the season.

Agree we need a Geelong style win (North would've been great) and there will be plenty of chances over the next few weeks to jag one if we're good enough.

We also need to start winning against poorer teams multiple times in a season. Pies and GCS our main chances.

[old dee 23,791]

The number is TEN.

they are Freo, Saints, GCS and Carlton.