The Dusty" don't argue"

[Lord Travis 10,327]

I hate that the umpires and commentators don't pull him up for it more. The majority of the time I watch Richmond games and Dusty rips out the don't argue he usually either hits or grabs the opposing tacklers throat. If he was pushing their body I'd be fine with it, but he usually hits their throat. It should be called a free kick against Dusty. 

I remember in a game late last year against Gold Coast the player he did it on actually had to leave the ground as he was struggling to breathe because his throat took a hard hit from Dusty. Commentators didn't call it, the boundary rider said he didn't know what happened and thought the player must have taken a knock when falling or something. It was [censored]. Dusty needs to be pulled up on it if he is hitting their throats. It's extremely dangerous.

My hatred for it is only intensified because the guy seems like a disgusting human being, but they may be the fault of his parents...

Edited April 20, 2016 by Lord Travis

[sue 8,623]

29 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

I hate that the umpires and commentators don't pull him up for it more. The majority of the time I watch Richmond games and Dusty rips out the don't argue he usually either hits or grabs the opposing tacklers throat. If he was pushing their body I'd be fine with it, but he usually hits their throat. It should be called a free kick against Dusty. 

I remember in a game late last year against Gold Coast the player he did it on actually had to leave the ground as he was struggling to breathe because his throat took a hard hit from Dusty. Commentators didn't call it, the boundary rider said he didn't know what happened and thought the player must have taken a knock when falling or something. It was [censored]. Dusty needs to be pulled up on it if he is hitting their throats. It's extremely dangerous.

My hatred for it is only intensified because the guy seems like a disgusting human being, but they may be the fault of his parents...

 

He does get pinged for it sometimes.  The simplest tactic is to duck a few inches so he does go too high. Much easier than trying to grab his arm etc.

[nutbean 8,837]

43 minutes ago, sue said:

 

He does get pinged for it sometimes.  The simplest tactic is to duck a few inches so he does go too high. Much easier than trying to grab his arm etc.

It all happens in a moment and I accept that he is the best in the league of the "don't argue" - he does not just fend - he locks the arm straight so he has massive power. Unless you do what Viney did Weller - grab the arm - which is a big ask - all you can then do is live with it.

However, I don't see it as such a huge problem - he does it once or twice a game. Its not like we are saying - how do we stop a player marking the ball 12 times a game.

[Deecisive 1,674]

Ducking and taking the hit is not an option, we are more likely to end up with a player having concussion. Ducking under also seems fraught with danger as you would probably have to lead into his body with your shoulder or head, if you hit him head first then another potential concussion. Not a big fan of trying to Corral a player, that just gives him time, Dusty moves too quick anyway to corral easily or without getting run over.

 

The Viney approach is the one a like. I think this should be part of their standard tackling practice anyway as there are a few players who do this now. With a players like dusty you know its coming so you should be prepared for it and take advantage of the fact that you know it is likely to be coming.

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

On 4/20/2016 at 3:05 PM, Deecisive said:

Ducking and taking the hit is not an option, we are more likely to end up with a player having concussion. Ducking under also seems fraught with danger as you would probably have to lead into his body with your shoulder or head, if you hit him head first then another potential concussion. Not a big fan of trying to Corral a player, that just gives him time, Dusty moves too quick anyway to corral easily or without getting run over.

 

The Viney approach is the one a like. I think this should be part of their standard tackling practice anyway as there are a few players who do this now. With a players like dusty you know its coming so you should be prepared for it and take advantage of the fact that you know it is likely to be coming.

I agree, grab the arm, if you pop his shoulder out on the way down you take him out of the game and he'll stop doing it, very harsh but he wouldn't get weeks if it's all he can do.

[Demon Dynasty 16,368]

19 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

If you get the don't argue - argue back..

Yep ... think that'll do It.

P.S. He even showed Jonesy & Jacky boy "how to" so we shld hav at least 3 players capable of this

[Demon Dynasty 16,368]

52 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

Ducking and taking the hit is not an option, we are more likely to end up with a player having concussion. Ducking under also seems fraught with danger as you would probably have to lead into his body with your shoulder or head, if you hit him head first then another potential concussion. Not a big fan of trying to Corral a player, that just gives him time, Dusty moves too quick anyway to corral easily or without getting run over.

 

The Viney approach is the one a like. I think this should be part of their standard tackling practice anyway as there are a few players who do this now. With a players like dusty you know its coming so you should be prepared for it and take advantage of the fact that you know it is likely to be coming.

Pretty sure Boomer uses this a fair bit also

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yep ... think that'll do It.

P.S. He even showed Jonesy & Jacky boy "how to" so we shld hav at least 3 players capable of this

Pretty sure every time I see that footage I watch it 3 or 4 times in awe.

[daisycutter 28,727]

well i haven't seen anyone before catch martin's don't argue, so good luck with that

[H_T 2,941]

16 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well i haven't seen anyone before catch martin's don't argue, so good luck with that

McKenzie swamped him before he could get the don't argue up, does that count?

[Skuit 9,382]

1 hour ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

Pretty sure every time I see that footage I watch it 3 or 4 times in awe.

It's mesmerising. Like watching a lion lock onto the throat of a gazelle. Jack fixes his gaze on the extended arm and ignores the evasive turns of the body to make the kill. 

[monoccular 16,660]

7 hours ago, Akum said:

That's where Viney's technique was so good. Instead of trying to push the don't-argue aside and grab the body, which is impossible and is what the other player expects you to do, he grabbed Weller's don't-argue arm above the elbow. As soon as he did that, there was nothing Weller could do, it was only going to end one way. Viney used the arm to pull him in and then smash him to the ground. It's obviously something he's practised, though doing it at full pace is amazing.

Sadly, with the MRP's continuing inconsistency, today Jack could be charged with a " too rough tackle" or whatever they call it, as his head hit the ground.  

IMO this was a great tackle.  

[monoccular 16,660]

7 hours ago, Akum said:

That's where Viney's technique was so good. Instead of trying to push the don't-argue aside and grab the body, which is impossible and is what the other player expects you to do, he grabbed Weller's don't-argue arm above the elbow. As soon as he did that, there was nothing Weller could do, it was only going to end one way. Viney used the arm to pull him in and then smash him to the ground. It's obviously something he's practised, though doing it at full pace is amazing.

Sadly, with the MRP's continuing inconsistency, today Jack could be charged with a " too rough tackle" or whatever they call it, as his head hit the ground.  

IMO this was a great tackle.  

[Deecisive 1,674]

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

well i haven't seen anyone before catch martin's don't argue, so good luck with that

That's probably because the tend not to practice for it. I think a few simulations of this at training will help the players pick up the signs of it and practice to take down the arm.

[Nasher 33,246]

3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

well i haven't seen anyone before catch martin's don't argue, so good luck with that

Before Viney, I had never seen anyone catch a don't argue, nor have I seen it since. Watching the footage again (for the 100th time - it really is a beautiful thing), it was a split second, reflex thing - I think Viney has introduced a brand new skill. I'd love to see him attempt it against the best don't arguer in the business. 

[Nasher 33,246]

By the way, does anyone know who coined the term "don't argue"? And what's the proper name for it - "fend off"?

[daisycutter 28,727]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

By the way, does anyone know who coined the term "don't argue"? And what's the proper name for it - "fend off"?

yeah, fend-off or stiff-arm or push-off

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 4,316]

Huttons smallagoods trademark 30933:

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[Devil is in the Detail 883]

15 hours ago, Skuit said:

It's mesmerising. Like watching a lion lock onto the throat of a gazelle. Jack fixes his gaze on the extended arm and ignores the evasive turns of the body to make the kill. 

Funny when Weller gets up, it's like he got hit by a truck he never saw.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

18 hours ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

Pretty sure every time I see that footage I watch it 3 or 4 times in awe.

Ditto

[monoccular 16,660]

I haven't noticed but surely if a don't argue hits the neck or face it must be penalized.  Does it?

Like many, I have looked at that Viney response time and time again and just love it.  Even without what would now be interpreted as a rough dumping there is virtually no way that the tackled can get off a legitimate disposal. 

[AzzKikA 2,371]

7 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I haven't noticed but surely if a don't argue hits the neck or face it must be penalized.  Does it?

It should be penalized yes, as it is high contact, but it is rarely paid.

[nutbean 8,837]

1 hour ago, AzzKikA said:

It should be penalized yes, as it is high contact, but it is rarely paid.

disagree - I have seen the high fend off penalised on many an occasion and it gets penalised more than not if it is high. However fend off with a hand in chest is legal.

[Lord Travis 10,327]

2 hours ago, monoccular said:

I haven't noticed but surely if a don't argue hits the neck or face it must be penalized.  Does it?

It should be but it rarely is. I've only ever seen Dusty get pinged once for it and it was when he literally forearm smashed a face that drew blood from the nose. So frittering the guy gets away with hitting people in the wind pipe!

[AzzKikA 2,371]

55 minutes ago, nutbean said:

disagree - I have seen the high fend off penalised on many an occasion and it gets penalised more than not if it is high. However fend off with a hand in chest is legal.

I too have seen it paid on many occasions too, but I find it is not paid often enough.