Analysing yesterday's game -

[DSP 1,488]

23 minutes ago, hells bells said:

I put this in the "Starting as Favourites" but could easily have gone here too

The issue is that the playing group as a whole are basically lazy.  There seems to be an attitude of doing just enough. 

A powerful side yesterday wouldn't have taken Essendon lightly but would have aimed for and worked hard for a 10 goal plus win.  We don't do that, we don't ever do that. 

I reckon it's also why we have bad starts to the game.  It's almost like we wait to see what the opposition is going to do before we judge how much effort we're going to put in. 

Its the same reason we never put away any teams.  We get to 4-5 goals up and then just go into cruise mode.

It is purely attitude - we are not professional enough to have the same mindset for every match - we don't know how to be ruthless.  Until it changes, we will remain perennial strugglers.

Ding Ding Ding.

The hunger just isnt there. We arent sharks and havent been for what seems like an eternity. Yesterday, the body language from the get go was worrying at best.

These are supposed to be professional sportsmen. Paid a lot of money to go out there and put in everything they have, week after week. Most of our list is happy to turn it on for minutes at a time and rest on the laurels of a win from last week (who lets face it, was due to GWS' atrocious kicking for goal). Why arent players gut running when the game is on the line? Go and watch the jogging from some players with around 8 mins left. Annoys me to no end.

I know its round 2, but its the same things we have all discussed time and time again. Coach has changed, list has changed, yet the issue remains.

 

 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,822]

The talk of wanting Hogan to go this year instead of next is laughable. If he bagged a few more yesterday it wouldn't even be a conversation. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

15 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Yeah I read it but it wasn't special enough to warrant a new thread, particularly when your claimed reason was no player potting.  Post game thread would've been fine, plenty of non player potting posts in there eg praha, baghdad bob.

Well merge it if it really bothers you. 

I really don't care. 

[Redleg 40,815]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

The talk of wanting Hogan to go this year instead of next is laughable. If he bagged a few more yesterday it wouldn't even be a conversation. 

Agree. He is the bloke you want to build a team around, but what is wrong with him. Is he playing hurt? Is he feeling pressure over his next contract? Has he just had a poor start to the season?

Hopefully he gets back to his 2015 form and re signs with us soon, so that issue is out of the way.

[Adam The God 30,112]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Agree. He is the bloke you want to build a team around, but what is wrong with him. Is he playing hurt? Is he feeling pressure over his next contract? Has he just had a poor start to the season?

Hopefully he gets back to his 2015 form and re signs with us soon, so that issue is out of the way.

He definitely went down to the rooms at one of the short breaks. Was it quarter time? I presume everything is not rosy body wise.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

We need another big forward like daniher or a 2nd ruckman who can move forward. Not at all impressed with garland...hes like howe and plays a good game in six. Its no where near enough. The sooner roos moves on the better. I hope one day poor jack w can string 3 or 4 great games together. His mind seems to be either all or nothing. Cant work him out. Dont know what has happened to kent...he used to be very good. Bugg not much. Lumumnba has expired. Vanderberg read kent. T mac read j watts. Kennedy a great pick up. The umps did help the dons get on their roll yesterday. It wasnt just the 2 to 1 fkick ratio at half time which is a lot but the 2 50m penalties were tough. I guess we will know this time next week to see what what for this season but all signs point to little improvement if any although on paper we look better.

[Samael 560]

I noticed that a few media commentators have said we had 'big heads", "got ahead of ourselves", "turned up expecting to play witches hats" etc. Personally I find this hard to understand. In the cold light of day last Tuesday I watched the GWS game again. I was concerned that it was seen as a great win etc because in reality I felt we pinched the game and GWS lost it through poor kicking. Today seems to bare this out because GWS beat Geelong today through, in part by improved conversion. So to say the players got ahead of themselves is BS. I can totally understand we supporters getting excited by a win and raising our expectations. We are fans. The FD surely would have pointed out that we were fortunate last week and kept a lid on it during the week. I would hope so.

Its the same with the NAB cup games. They are no indication of anything. Does anyone on here think we would beat the dogs like we did in the NAB games. How many on here reckon our disposal is better than last year? 

I also feel that the big head mea culpa detracts from the fact that the Bombers outplayed us significantly and even when headed in the last quarter came back. They don't seem to be as bad as the experts are saying.

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Agreed.

Lets do an exercise, Hawks currently lead the Eagles. If the Eagles can't beat them today they never will. 

And this is being generous....

take out 

Rough : Hogan

Hodge : Jones

Hill : Garlett

Shiels : Vince

We are a fucken rabble make no mistake.

46 point winners.

Bloody amazing.

Have the Hawks ever wasted money on Leading Teams?

What is it going to take for our players to get it.

[Akum 2,660]

1 hour ago, hells bells said:

I put this in the "Starting as Favourites" but could easily have gone here too

The issue is that the playing group as a whole are basically lazy.  There seems to be an attitude of doing just enough. 

A powerful side yesterday wouldn't have taken Essendon lightly but would have aimed for and worked hard for a 10 goal plus win.  We don't do that, we don't ever do that. 

I reckon it's also why we have bad starts to the game.  It's almost like we wait to see what the opposition is going to do before we judge how much effort we're going to put in. 

Its the same reason we never put away any teams.  We get to 4-5 goals up and then just go into cruise mode.

It is purely attitude - we are not professional enough to have the same mindset for every match - we don't know how to be ruthless.  Until it changes, we will remain perennial strugglers.

Great OP Steve. Should it be pinned, as a catalogue of all our potential trouble spots? They're all there - the only contention is the relative weight to give to them.

We need to look closer at this "starting as favourites" thing - it's about being "The Hunted". The side that's favoured to win is always "The Hunted", in that the team that's not favoured to win will always make plans to try to surprise them and strangle their game.

The statement that "a powerful side yesterday wouldn't have taken Essendon lightly" is perfectly true, because a powerful side is "The Hunted" every week! The Hawks, for example, are used to being "The Hunted", because every side they play tries to come up with a plan to beat them, and they need to overcome that plan every week.

The best sides - including Sydney circa 2005-2009 - can overcome being "Hunted" simply by being a strong enough team to take whatever anybody throws at them. Middle sides (Richmond, for example) MUST make adjustments when they're "Hunted", or they'll lose (which is why we beat them regularly by "hunting" them successfully). 

We're hardly ever favoured to win, so we're used to being "The Hunter", not "The Hunted". We never seem to expect the other team to "hunt" us and plan to shut us down and to take our best players out of the game. If we get "hunted", we're not good enough to just brush it aside - we have to make major adjustments. Roos never had to make adjustments when he was at the Swans (which, remember, is his only coaching experience at any level), but he has to make adjustments with us.

And if we're ever going to move up the ladder, we must work out what to do when the opposition successfully covers our main playmakers. We'll never be a good side until we can withstand being "The Hunted".

[Wiseblood 24,637]

God bless a bloke who thinks their views are so much more important than the rest that they start their own thread, rather than sticking it in the post match discussion thread which is for... post match discussion.  Nice one Steve.

I also like how he felt the post match discussion thread had too many people going over the top, which it did, yet this thread is going over the top after 1 game.

The glaring problem that came out of yesterday was our midfield.  No run, no accountability, no leadership.  It was a poor effort and it made the job of our defenders and our forwards very difficult.  Hogan might sook a little, but it can't be an easy day out when the midfield continually kick the ball on top of your head with three blokes on you.  Daniher had 15 marks and made our backline look silly, yet when the ball is coming down without any pressure it's hard not to look anything else.

Our fortunes live and die by our midfield.  When they allow Essendon to do as they please as they did yesterday, then we know what happens.  If we fix this up then we are instantly a better side.

Well done also, Steve, for masking your potting of Garland by looking at our 'defence'.  You spent most of it having a go at a bloke who was never in with a chance yesterday. 

[titan_uranus 24,969]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

Agree. He is the bloke you want to build a team around, but what is wrong with him. Is he playing hurt? Is he feeling pressure over his next contract? Has he just had a poor start to the season?

Hopefully he gets back to his 2015 form and re signs with us soon, so that issue is out of the way.

He definitely suffered a leg injury of some sort yesterday and went down to the rooms because of it. 

He's also being stifled by operating in a cluttered forward line with too many MFC players getting in the way of where he ought to be leading, and too many passes going to his head and not in front of him. 

He needs to work harder for sure, as his second efforts are rubbish ATM, but the team is not making his life easy.

[DeeZee 7,361]

We can analyse as much as we want but the simple reason we lost yesterday was that they wanted it more than us.

They came to play and we didn't.

Essendon were much harder at the ball than us and after the match a bombers player was interviewed and he said the theme they had all week and the one thing they wanted to do to us was put us under enormous unrelenting pressure,and then run off us.

They wanted to put us under the blowtorch and apply as much heat for four quarters as possible.

we were unprepared for it and shell shocked all afternoon.

[monoccular 17,413]

5 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I just posted in the "Roos match day thread"

Robert Shaw spoke about Freo. They've  tried attacking football for two weeks for a result of 0-2. Next week they will go back into lockdown mode and there will be a total of 13 goals kicked for the game.

Where to for us? 

What, were we ambushed? 

As STMJ alluded to we knew the Bombers were steeling themselves for this game. Something  which has been lost on the players for eternity is coming to play every week. They are genuinely dumb, there is no other explanation for them not grasping this simple concept. 

Lets ts not forget Goodwin has 3 years left after this season, we need to know ASAP if he can coach.

 

IMO we, that is the team and in particular its so called leaders, we're just bloody complacent and as Roos said thought this would be a walk in the park. 

Eack and every one of those players, be it two or ten, whoever they are, must play at Casey for the next month. I don't give a stuff if that means we lose winnable (LOL) games. The club management and coaches need to draw a line in the sand....otherwise we are dead and buried. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

5 minutes ago, monoccular said:

IMO we, that is the team and in particular its so called leaders, we're just bloody complacent and as Roos said thought this would be a walk in the park. 

Eack and every one of those players, be it two or ten, whoever they are, must play at Casey for the next month. I don't give a stuff if that means we lose winnable (LOL) games. The club management and coaches need to draw a line in the sand....otherwise we are dead and buried. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,326]

9 minutes ago, monoccular said:

IMO we, that is the team and in particular its so called leaders, we're just bloody complacent and as Roos said thought this would be a walk in the park. 

Eack and every one of those players, be it two or ten, whoever they are, must play at Casey for the next month. I don't give a stuff if that means we lose winnable (LOL) games. The club management and coaches need to draw a line in the sand....otherwise we are dead and buried. 

I agree, but this is the bit I don't get. So we rocked up not mentally switched on because we thought it was a forgone conclusion....ok....but at qtr time cop a spray from the coach yet still can't turn it around.

Cant remember whether it was GWS or the Suns but in their debut season they played the Hawks. At qtr time Hawks trailed by 7 points (give or take), copped a spray from Clarko and went on to win by over 100. It's as if we haven't come to play from the start its all over until next week. We can't adjust throughout a game.

 

[McQueen 17,864]

4 hours ago, america de cali said:

The more I look at the result and  the stats makes me think something smells bad and dodgy.

Do you reckon Roosy's [censored]-relation might've dropped $50k on the Dons when they were paying $6 for the win?

[bandicoot 1,395]

It's not our players....

essendon have a deplorable list and are able to beat us.

our game plan and structure are hopeless and not even the hawthorn list could implement it effectively.

When the whole comp is mimicking clarksons structures Roos is hell bent on sticking with his 2005 game plan.

get rid of Roos asap and let Goodwin try change the style before it's too late.

 

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

Why would the Captain of our team stand up to two metres at times behind the real mark and not go any further forward towards the kicker. What was going on with the Umpiring?

Many times neither team knew what decisions were going to be. If you looked at Essendon's game last week especially the last quarter last week compared to

the last quarter this week, with nearly same players, (really interesting to compare the distances at three quarter time of each player) the level of run this week in the last quarter was extraordinary.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree with everything you just said Steve. I too was worried after the doggies game and knew right after that match we were always going to get exposed badly for our lack of speed on the outside. But you spoke up about this exact issue back then and got absolutely howled down for it because it was a 'practise match'.

Your also wasting your time on Garland.. Been saying it for years what a liability he is to our team.. but apparently he has good leadership blah blah blah.....

Garland as a leader does not inspire. Ive never seen him even talking and egging his team on. Sadly, his onfield performance dores not reek of leadership.One great leader we had is along way back. The great Ronald Barassi. He led by example and was a constant motormouth during a game. That is what I call REAL leadership. Jack Watts can, in bursts, rev up his team mates and inspire but he needs to do it more regularly and consistently.

[Older demon 2,741]

I cannot help but think this match was lost on Thursday night when we went with a small backline. Oscar out and Frosty omitted. Daniher was a handful last year and had he kicked straight it would have been a bigger loss. last week I thought Lobb showed up the backline last week with his marking so we clearly didn't learn and have a tall to guard a 6 foot 10 target.

The smaller backline was supposed to generate more run but clearly this didn't work and despite the criticism Lumumba tried to generate run by running and carrying. No one appeared to stream out of our backline and when we did we turned it over.

The mid field was smashed and Zaharakis, Goddard, Merret and in the last quarter Cooney looked a class above us with only Jones and Bernie getting near it. Oliver was too rushed, Angus off the pace and Viney unsighted. Who was supposed to pick up Merret? Parish and Ashby knocked up getting kicks and we could not stick a tackle.

No respect was paid to Tipungwuti who continually broke tackles and ran the ball out the backline and he only his second game. Who was his opponent

Worsfold comprehensively out coached our team. The switch of play across half back rarely was stopped and easy ball came out followed with a long bomb to the goalsquare where Daniher dominated. He took 15 marks for goodness sake.

We butchered the ball and certainly didn't cope with the pressure, close in tackling and harassing by the opposition. We turned it over way too much to even consider being competitive. We just played dumb football and made too many poor decisions or took the wrong option

A real backward step.

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Older demon

[John Crow Batty 8,860]

51 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Do you reckon Roosy's [censored]-relation might've dropped $50k on the Dons when they were paying $6 for the win?

When there is no heart and no soul in our performances when "co-incidentally" a  fortune can be made backing our non performance  it is easy to think of other reasons why. Happens all the time with us. Not pointing the finger to anyone at our club of course.

Edited April 3, 2016 by america de cali

[Earl Hood 6,082]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

God bless a bloke who thinks their views are so much more important than the rest that they start their own thread, rather than sticking it in the post match discussion thread which is for... post match discussion.  Nice one Steve.

I also like how he felt the post match discussion thread had too many people going over the top, which it did, yet this thread is going over the top after 1 game.

The glaring problem that came out of yesterday was our midfield.  No run, no accountability, no leadership.  It was a poor effort and it made the job of our defenders and our forwards very difficult.  Hogan might sook a little, but it can't be an easy day out when the midfield continually kick the ball on top of your head with three blokes on you.  Daniher had 15 marks and made our backline look silly, yet when the ball is coming down without any pressure it's hard not to look anything else.

Our fortunes live and die by our midfield.  When they allow Essendon to do as they please as they did yesterday, then we know what happens.  If we fix this up then we are instantly a better side.

Well done also, Steve, for masking your potting of Garland by looking at our 'defence'.  You spent most of it having a go at a bloke who was never in with a chance yesterday. 

After watching the Dorks today I wish our deficiencies in matching it with the best were just about the midfield. It is about just about everything you can think of, game plan, intensity, tackling, teamwork, speed by leg and by foot and of course sheer talent. The gap is just huge. I for one will not be attending our two Dorks matches. I just can't work out the large gap in such a small, incestuous competition that the AFL is. Any new coach who has come from the Hawthorn school seems to get their new club off and running with an aggressive game plan that the players embrace and follow, inside 3 months. And Woosher takes over a grab bag band of players at Essenscum and in three months they have a cohesive playing style that puts us to shame. How long have our guys been trying to learn a plan? I admit a big problem is our game plan changes every year these days. But I think that is now a fact of life in a competitive league for most sides. 

The more I watch us I think no matter how many young guns we bring in we will still get smashed by good sides while we don't have a competitive game plan that we can execute. If your players are not constantly on the move, getting into space and presenting options forward of the ball carrier you are going to struggle. Our blokes don't seem to do that by nature. 

[mrtwister 652]

Watched the game on the afl replay site today. Wasn't as bad as I expected given the comments I have heard from those that were there. Other than the result of course. 

I then watched the first quarter of the Dons and Suns game afterwards. Essendon were a very different team this week. They were playing far more cohesively and seemed to have a more 'on the same page' look about them. 

Contrast to us, the Suns punished their errors brutally and jumped them early. They seemed to expect a bit of a rabble and that's what they got. They used it to their advantage. 

 

In our defence, not only were the Dons more organised, they would have been really difficult to prepare for. With makeshift teams like them you never know what to expect. Scouting last week's game would have been pointless and possibly even detrimental. I think this contributed to our poor performance because it's hard to stand and deliver with little idea of what to expect. 

This doesn't provide them with an excuse for yesterday's performance, but I now know why Gus had said it was a tough game to prepare for. 

Next week won't show how far we have come. I'll be reserving that judgement for when we find out how many Friday. night games we get next year. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by mrtwister

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,062]

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

We need another big forward like daniher or a 2nd ruckman who can move forward. Not at all impressed with garland...hes like howe and plays a good game in six. Its no where near enough. The sooner roos moves on the better. I hope one day poor jack w can string 3 or 4 great games together. His mind seems to be either all or nothing. Cant work him out. Dont know what has happened to kent...he used to be very good. Bugg not much. Lumumnba has expired. Vanderberg read kent. T mac read j watts. Kennedy a great pick up. The umps did help the dons get on their roll yesterday. It wasnt just the 2 to 1 fkick ratio at half time which is a lot but the 2 50m penalties were tough. I guess we will know this time next week to see what what for this season but all signs point to little improvement if any although on paper we look better.

From what I've seen down at Casey, if he does enough with his final(?) rookie year, I see a lot of similarity, and a future, in Max King. The weekend's Casey game sounded promising.

[jnrmac 20,053]

6 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

We were garbage yesterday, but I reckon the Dons would've beaten a few other sides yesterday. They decided to play the perfect game given their current situation and playing list 

Please what kind of pahtetic excuse making is this?