Post match Discussion "Fire away"

[DubDee 24,300]

I'm even more gutted now than after the siren. Fk why can't we even be an OK average decent side for once! Haven't been out of the bottom 6 for 10 god damn years and doesn't look like changing. 

Mer might have better players now but the mentality is the same. Fark!!

im flat as. Can't even be bothered watching the other games as it reminds me how soft we are. Usually us be drunk, maybe that's the problem. 

[bush demon 1,989]

11 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I think he has 2 to 3 weeks to redeem himself (and the players also). They would need to win all of the next 3 to regain any sort of credibility after that pitiful effort and lack of composure/character.

Shuffling the deck chairs. We need super fast, super talented players who can run, spread and hit targets consistently. Too slow at decision making, too many poor decision makers, poor awareness and all round just bog ordinary disposers of the football who are possibly beyond repair and/or not truly committed or capable of playing at AFL level for more than a quarter or 2. List is only 1/3rd of the way there IMO before we see this mob start performing and winning matches that they are expected to (on paper).

Why didn't Roos give jeffy a run in the middle in the last quarter!!? (when the game was still up for grabs!?)

Essendrug's high press seemed to work. Ours was non-existent/ ineffective (at best). We never locked the ball down our end at any stage of the match. They ran it out like we weren't on the park. What happened to "team defense" lol?

3 pre-season's to get this right but still way behind the rest of the comp.

It's laughable calling them essendrug. i feel sorry for the essendon supporters who have been hoodwinked by certain administrators and coaches in their club. the whole club from supporters, past players and players play and support with a passion that we could only guess at. our players give the impression of being indentured labourers clocking on and off.essendon plays like they love football, we act like we army conscripts trying to push through the dardanelles.  this roos-goodwin transition thing is starting to look far too cute and precious. whose game style are we running? the former or the latter, or a hybrid of neither? why was gawn not used more on their 'no.6'? daniher had free run wherever he ran. never the slightest attempt to run him under the ball, nudge him off the ball or double-team him. honourable exception to nev jetta for some of his efforts. 

[bluey 1,022]

Wouldn't take the average dill 5 seconds to realise that we have passed over another quick player in Parish  who is deadly with either foot, and plays with some pride in himself and his club.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by bluey
spellin

[DubDee 24,300]

Essendon have more respect as a footy team than we do right now

just let that sink in

[praha 11,100]

6 minutes ago, bluey said:

Wouldn't take the average dill 5 seconds to realise that we have passed over another quick player in Parish  who is deadly with either foot.

 

Speed is good but defense wins games. Fast teams are often poor defensively and lack grunt. On tough days you need that grunt. Leg speed is overrated. Giants ran us off our feet but we defended well and pushed them to the pockets, hence their inaccuracy. It's the Muhammad Ali technique: let them sink the boot in then ATTACK when they're vulnerable. Did it well last week but lacked structure and discipline today. We need to tighen up. We win today's match 9/10 times but coaching errors, complacency and laziness killed us, not lack of speed.

Edited April 2, 2016 by praha
error

[rufus 1,047]

1 minute ago, bluey said:

Wouldn't take the average dill 5 seconds to realise that we have passed over another quick player in Parish  who is deadly with either foot.

 

We passed over him because the powers that be decided we have to draft 'competitors' because apparently all the talented players we previously drafted just weren't 'competitors'. Think maybe there might be a bigger problem with this club in that consistently competing just isn't a real expectation at Melbourne. If you play a good game, you'll be idolised and your next 5 games of bed $hitting will be excused.

You know you're struggling when you have to pass up quality talent because you are worried they won't try hard enough for your club.

This club was cooked long before today but today re-enforced how much of a joke it really is.

[rufus 1,047]

6 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Essendon have more respect as a footy team than we do right now

just let that sink in

Essendon are a better club than Melbourne. Always have been and always will be. Their supporter base demands excellence and that is what they strive to deliver.

Essendon as a club have done some bad stuff over the last few years (and with salary caps in the past), but in my opinion they have disgraced themselves in the pursuit of excellence. Melbourne disgrace themselves while applauding their own mediocrity.

[Adam The God 29,298]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I somehow managed to stay calm throughout today;perhaps the most disturbing thing for me was the look on the Demons supporters faces that were leaving in the last 5 minutes of the game.Truly a sad day for us supporters.

Yep. They talk about Richmond supporters going through pain. And Bulldogs and Saints supporters going through pain, but I reckon we've got it on all of them. And that's not a good thing. We are a pretty resilient bunch though. I DGAF what opposition supporters think, but 33-35,000 of us at least have stayed loyal and somehow manage to find the effort to back up again every week, after every pitiful performance.

[SaberFang 7,151]

25 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

You don't "limit the damage" against a VFL side. You attack. 

Exactly, the entire mindset today was braindead. All we had to do the entire day was attack, attack, attack. Their total lack of structure would've killed them with an inability to defend.

But no, clearly that was too [censored] obvious a plan.

[rufus 1,047]

7 minutes ago, praha said:

Speed is good but defense wins games. Fast teams are often poor defensively and lack grunt. On tough days you need that grunt. Leg speed is overrated. Giants ran us off our feet but we defended well and pushed them to the pockets, hence their inaccuracy. It's the Muhammad Ali technique: let them sink the boot in then ATTACK when they're vulnerable. Did it well last week but lacked structure and discipline today. We need to tighen up. We win today's match 9/10 times but coaching errors, complacency and laziness killed us, not lack of speed.

Melbourne had 50 tackles. Essendon had 444 disposals and we had 50 [censored] tackles. What a complete and utter shambles. The rest is all froth and bubble mate. Essendon were desperate to win and Melbourne thought they could do it without putting in the effort. If it was a once off then fine. It isn't. Easiest club in history to coach against. If you can convince your players to compete physically you win. Simple as that.

[Demon Dynasty 17,080]

12 minutes ago, praha said:

Speed is good but defense wins games. Fast teams are often poor defensively and lack grunt. On tough days you need that grunt. Leg speed is overrated. Giants ran us off our feet but we defended well and pushed them to the pockets, hence their inaccuracy. It's the Muhammad Ali technique: let them sink the boot in then ATTACK when they're vulnerable. Did it well last week but lacked structure and discipline today. We need to tighen up. We win today's match 9/10 times but coaching errors, complacency and laziness killed us, not lack of speed.

Today was all about character and effort Praha. Essendrug had it, we didn't and haven't since 64.

[praha 11,100]

6 minutes ago, rufus said:

Melbourne had 50 tackles. Essendon had 444 disposals and we had 50 [censored] tackles. What a complete and utter shambles. The rest is all froth and bubble mate. Essendon were desperate to win and Melbourne thought they could do it without putting in the effort. If it was a once off then fine. It isn't. Easiest club in history to coach against. If you can convince your players to compete physically you win. Simple as that.

Granted, but we only lost by 2 goals. It was exactly the same situation last week with the Giants getting too much run and space in transition. The stats today are abysmal but is that related to speed? Watch the replay. We move like a flock of birds around the ball. Like you said, easy to coach against: Essendon players branched off, created space and spread and were away. That's a coaching error. Roos wanted a bogged down contest. Woosha wanted the opposite and got it. Daniher had 15 marks, 9 inside 50 because they had clear kicks going forward from 4 or 5 clear preceding passes. It was a coaching issue today. We have too much fire power to be playing in a way that tries to stem the oppositions score. It's a defeatist approach against weaker opposition. Logical against strong opposition, but defeatist otherwise.  When you're heavy favourites and playing a team on the ropes, you attack. We didn't...and lost by only 2 goals. Do you think that had we tried to outplay Essendon at their own game that they'd have smashed us? Roos was found out today. Not our lack of speed.

Edited April 2, 2016 by praha
error

[J.L. 15]

My observation today was that we looked confused; trapped between two opposing playing styles.

Our pre season movement was totally different compared to the first two rounds (we were outplayed for 3/4 last week and should have lost).  The greatest indictment in today's game was that a poor Essendon team controlled the centre corridor, something we trained for and dominated for long periods in the pre season.

I have appreciated everything that Roos has done for us, but his defensive game style is not as relevant or effective as it once was.

Roos still has value but why delay the positive Goodwin game plan? Win, lose or draw, Goodwin will be coach next year and now's the time to Implement and instill his strategy, not the start of 2017. Let's get on with it!

[praha 11,100]

And people hounding Hogan, the guy is a one-on-one beast but is absolutely smothered by his dumb teammates flooding their own forward line. He is frustrated and understandably so. CLEAR THE [censored] OUT!

[Adam The God 29,298]

56 minutes ago, boydie said:

I think there would some merit in games like today when we're clearly not switched on that seen as we have a coach in waiting in the box for Roos to go to the bench and address some players when they come the bench. I would have pulled Garland and McDonald off and said OK which one of you is playing on Danniher? Once you work that out, hpw about you actually use your body so he doesn't get a free run at every high ball bombed in to him?

I must admit I thought this is what Roos would do this year. Sit on the bench, instruct and motivate, while Goodwin would relay messages from the box. This is what he did with Longmire. Why isn't he doing it with Goodwin?

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

Not happy with Roos excuse that the players were tired. FMD it's round 2!

He was always going to take the heat for the players. We wouldn't want Goodwin doing this now.

51 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Shuffling the deck chairs. We need super fast, super talented players who can run, spread and hit targets consistently. Too slow at decision making, too many poor decision makers, poor awareness and all round just bog ordinary disposers of the football who are possibly beyond repair and/or not truly committed or capable of playing at AFL level for more than a quarter or 2. List is only 1/3rd of the way there IMO before we see this mob start performing and winning matches that they are expected to (on paper).

Not sure we're 1/3 of the way there with the list. I reckon we're closer to 3/5. :D No, seriously. Some of the talk on Demonland last week about the strength our list was embarrassing though.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

we have as much heart as this bloke

 

[Adam The God 29,298]

33 minutes ago, bluey said:

Wouldn't take the average dill 5 seconds to realise that we have passed over another quick player in Parish  who is deadly with either foot, and plays with some pride in himself and his club.

Well, it was only a matter of time, I guess.

Parish looks good, but you know it's possible that Oliver might be as good or better. Think Judd and Hodge.

28 minutes ago, rufus said:

We passed over him because the powers that be decided we have to draft 'competitors' because apparently all the talented players we previously drafted just weren't 'competitors'. Think maybe there might be a bigger problem with this club in that consistently competing just isn't a real expectation at Melbourne. If you play a good game, you'll be idolised and your next 5 games of bed $hitting will be excused.

You know you're struggling when you have to pass up quality talent because you are worried they won't try hard enough for your club.

This club was cooked long before today but today re-enforced how much of a joke it really is.

What a load of rubbish.

[rufus 1,047]

3 minutes ago, praha said:

Granted, but we only lost by 2 goals. It was exactly the same situation last week with the Giants getting too much run and space in transition. The stats today are abysmal but is that related to speed? Watch the replay. We move like a flock of birds around the ball. Like you said, easy to coach against: Essendon players branched off, created space and spread and were away. That's a coaching error. Roos wanted a bogged down contest. Woosha wanted the opposite and got it. Daniher had 15 marks, 9 inside 50 because they had clear kicks going forward from 4 or 5 clear preceding passes. It was a coaching issue today. We have too much fire power to be playing in a way that tries to stem the oppositions score. It's a defeatist approach against weaker opposition. Logical against strong opposition, but defeatist otherwise.  When you're heavy favourites and playing a team on the ropes, you attack. We didn't...and lost by only 2 goals. Do you think that had we tried to outplay Essendon at their own game that they'd have smashed us? Roos was found out today. Not our lack of speed.

Well to respond to one of your points...if Daniher is taking 15 marks in a game then his opponent should hang his head in complete and utter shame. To let that bloke dominate like that (the second time in a row he has done it against us) is a micro example of putrid level of competitiveness of our players. Lack of pride. He's not that good and some physicality makes him reasonably ineffective against 16 AFL clubs.

I don't disagree that Roos' coaching style at times beggars belief. Never really liked his appointment from the beginning. But if the players brought 100% today then the game style wouldn't have mattered a $hite because it was effectively a (supposed) professional AFL team vs. a mostly VFL team. Your comments really just once again excuse the players. The $hitty coaching should have seen us with a 5 goal win instead of a 10 goal win. But of course it didn't.

[Adam The God 29,298]

13 minutes ago, J.L. said:

My observation today was that we looked confused; trapped between two opposing playing styles.

Our pre season movement was totally different compared to the first two rounds (we were outplayed for 3/4 last week and should have lost).  The greatest indictment in today's game was that a poor Essendon team controlled the centre corridor, something we trained for and dominated for long periods in the pre season.

I have appreciated everything that Roos has done for us, but his defensive game style is not as relevant or effective as it once was.

Roos still has value but why delay the positive Goodwin game plan? Win, lose or draw, Goodwin will be coach next year and now's the time to Implement and instill his strategy, not the start of 2017. Let's get on with it!

I'm beginning to think you're right.

I did expect Roos to take a bit of a backseat this year and just cop the heat when we didn't perform to expectation, but perhaps that's not what's happening? It certainly could be argued that Roosy's ego got the better of him today against an old foe in the opposing coaching box.

[Coq au vin 755]

Why has none of our coaches taught our players about SPREAD! Our players don't seem to be able to spread out like other teams. Our players don't seem to be able to stick like glue to other teams' players because they don't understand the other team is spreading and then getting the ball out into space away from the packs.

[Bonkers 987]

10 minutes ago, J.L. said:

My observation today was that we looked confused; trapped between two opposing playing styles.

Our pre season movement was totally different compared to the first two rounds (we were outplayed for 3/4 last week and should have lost).  The greatest indictment in today's game was that a poor Essendon team controlled the centre corridor, something we trained for and dominated for long periods in the pre season.

I have appreciated everything that Roos has done for us, but his defensive game style is not as relevant or effective as it once was.

Roos still has value but why delay the positive Goodwin game plan? Win, lose or draw, Goodwin will be coach next year and now's the time to Implement and instill his strategy, not the start of 2017. Let's get on with it!

Another thing that has been lacking apart from maybe the first quarter & maybe last quarter last week is the forward line pressure. There may have been one period of play today where we locked the ball inside our forward 50 for extended periods of time, other than that it was coming out far too easy for the whole game.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

5 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Well, it was only a matter of time, I guess.

Parish looks good, but you know it's possible that Oliver might be as good or better. Think Judd and Hodge.

What a load of rubbish.

He won't be as good, because he was unlucky enough enough to be drafted to the one club that hasn't got the foggiest idea of how to produce an elite player. FCS it has been what 20-30 years since we have done so and we've had top shelf draft talent the majority of the time

[praha 11,100]

9 minutes ago, rufus said:

Well to respond to one of your points...if Daniher is taking 15 marks in a game then his opponent should hang his head in complete and utter shame. To let that bloke dominate like that (the second time in a row he has done it against us) is a micro example of putrid level of competitiveness of our players. Lack of pride. He's not that good and some physicality makes him reasonably ineffective against 16 AFL clubs.

I don't disagree that Roos' coaching style at times beggars belief. Never really liked his appointment from the beginning. But if the players brought 100% today then the game style wouldn't have mattered a $hite because it was effectively a (supposed) professional AFL team vs. a mostly VFL team. Your comments really just once again excuse the players. The $hitty coaching should have seen us with a 5 goal win instead of a 10 goal win. But of course it didn't.

I'm not excusing the players. But I don't think McDonald lacks competitiveness. He is a competitive beast. Daniher needed a big body on him and not including Dunn was an error. Roos admitted as much without explicitly mentioning Dunn. Brayshaw was a bad inclusion and he acknowledged that. Yeah, the players should have had the foresight to adjust and cover that spread, and their skills today were horrid. But again...they only lost by 2 goals even being as bad as they were. In that case specifically I think it falls on the coach's shoulders. One or two subtle changes and some more attacking flair and they win, even with such atrocious skills. The players had the chance to win it but faltered, namely in the middle and around stoppages when the game was there to be won. My point is, it's a combination of bad coaching and bad play, but the bad play still almost resulted in a win. From the opening bounce you could tell Woosha had Roos figured out.

Edited April 2, 2016 by praha

[Earl Hood 6,057]

Went last week, watched the last quarter this week on Fox and have read posts today, what is going on with our game plan? We just keep bombing it high into a crowded forward line only to watch it come back out at speed to numerous options that we can't cover. I have been to training and it looks different there, we seem to have a system. 

[Yossarian 1,820]

Get FUUUUUUCKED