Changes vs Essendon

[dee-luded 2,959]

4 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Since he is such a hot topic at the minute, here is my 2 cents about Tyson:

He has 2 major problems, he is slow and he is a terrible kick.
Now the latter is the lesser of the problems, for a midfielder at least, we can probably deal with 60% efficiency by foot if he can keep his hands up around 80-85%. Judd and Swan are both brownlow medal proof that you dont have to be a glorious kick to be a star midfielder as long as you can get your hands on the footy and give it to someone who is. we'll all love tyson forever if he gets the ball in and under and hands it out to le like of salem running past who has the skill to hit someone lace out.

The bigger problem I see is he is slow moving the ball on, he gets caught holding the ball more than any other player in the competition, and this is harder to fix. People calling for him to be dropped but I feel he will dominate in the VFL simply due to the extra time he has. IMO we have to persist with him at AFL level and he has to get better at moving the ball on quicker. Going down a level and playing exactly the same might help his confidence but wont change the fact he will continue to get caught at the top level. I'm open to sugestions as to how the VFL could improve this skill but right now i just cant see it helping  

Play him at Casey in the forward pocket or flank, & rotate thru midfield, not to the bench, building his endurance.   Tell him to work on his outside game & to kick lots of goals.  And to feed the ball linking to the runner coming past.  

Hopefully he'll end up being tagged when forward,  forcing him to get mentally faster ?

 

If he's that slow he'll have to learn to get quicker in mind,  then maybe do the same at AFL with him, during rotations?  If we can get his endurance up maybe he could end up a plough Wallace type.

 

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Some calling for Pederson to be dropped, but giving Tyson another week. FMD.

[mauriesy 7,429]

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

What do you think goes through a players mind ?

A) I am not going to honor a really good lead as I am worried the player leading  is going to spill the mark; or

b) Is the players leading a substantial enough distance from opponents for me to effect a good pass or is the degree of difficulty to high for me to attempt the pass -  am I going to be able hit him on the lead ?

If those are what goes through a player's mind when they look up the field, no wonder they're sometimes indecisive.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

10 minutes ago, dee-luded said:

If we can get his endurance up maybe he could end up a plough Wallace type.

Dunno if that's praise or not. Plough might not even get a game these days. He was a terrific ball extractor but a horrible kick. Worse than Todd Viney.

[dee-luded 2,959]

4 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Since he is such a hot topic at the minute, here is my 2 cents about Tyson:

He has 2 major problems, he is slow and he is a terrible kick.
Now the latter is the lesser of the problems, for a midfielder at least, we can probably deal with 60% efficiency by foot if he can keep his hands up around 80-85%. Judd and Swan are both brownlow medal proof that you dont have to be a glorious kick to be a star midfielder as long as you can get your hands on the footy and give it to someone who is. we'll all love tyson forever if he gets the ball in and under and hands it out to le like of salem running past who has the skill to hit someone lace out.

The bigger problem I see is he is slow moving the ball on, he gets caught holding the ball more than any other player in the competition, and this is harder to fix. People calling for him to be dropped but I feel he will dominate in the VFL simply due to the extra time he has. IMO we have to persist with him at AFL level and he has to get better at moving the ball on quicker. Going down a level and playing exactly the same might help his confidence but wont change the fact he will continue to get caught at the top level. I'm open to sugestions as to how the VFL could improve this skill but right now i just cant see it helping  

Play him at Casey in the forward pocket or flank, & rotate thru midfield, not to the bench, building his endurance.   Tell him to work on his outside game & to kick lots of goals.  And to feed the ball linking to the runner coming past.  

Hopefully he'll end up being tagged when forward,  forcing him to get mentally faster ?

 

If he's that slow he'll have to learn to get quicker in mind,  then maybe do the same at AFL with him, during rotations?  If we can get his endurance up maybe he could end up a plough Wallace type.

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I said similar in an earlier post 'stuie'...he often calls for it over the back. Maybe not just standing there but definitely not pushing up to the player with the ball, many times you see him calling for an unrealistic kick over the back.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. If there's one player we have who busts his gut to get up the ground it's Dawes. Have a think about how many times you've seen him take a mark deep inside 50...

 

[Adam The God 30,644]

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I agree having Hogan, Pederson, Frost and Watts all playing in the one forwardline isn't a great combination. 

But it was our entries inside 50 that was the reason we kept seeing packs of 6-7 al flying for the ball. Players will rarely mark in that situation and none of that was the fault of any forward. Kicking to the advantage of forward targets and to space is what we need more of. Just look at Watts' kick to Hogan in the last. He saw the space, recognised that it was Hogan in the best position, and kicked it to that area. 

Too many times in the first three quarters we just bombed long in hope. And there were a few repeat offenders who I won't name.

This week we absolutely must improve on our delivery inside 50 because we're going to have plenty of them. 

Roos mentioned in the presser that Essendon aren't an overly tall side which says to me we might see one of Frost/Pederson dropped with Dunn coming in for O Mac. Or perhaps we could see Frost move back for O Mac and no Dunn at all.

We need to improve our efficiency going forward if we want to trouble some of the better sides this year. 

Yeah, it was interesting that. I took from his comments that Dunn won't be coming back this week and that we may well drop Pedersen too. Then again, it makes little sense to give up that advantage, unless of course your talls get run off.

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I said similar in an earlier post 'stuie'...he often calls for it over the back. Maybe not just standing there but definitely not pushing up to the player with the ball, many times you see him calling for an unrealistic kick over the back.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. If there's one player we have who busts his gut to get up the ground it's Dawes. Have a think about how many times you've seen him take a mark deep inside 50...

 

[Ted Lasso 19,568]

19 hours ago, stuie said:

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. If there's one player we have who busts his gut to get up the ground it's Dawes. Have a think about how many times you've seen him take a mark deep inside 50...

 

I'm not sure i can recall him taking many marks at all, haha jokes aside he does work hard.

[DemonOX 8,837]

Just mentioned on fox that Brayshaw will play VFL this week. 

He must be more underdone than I thought cause I would have had him in the team this week. 

[dee-luded 2,959]

43 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Dunno if that's praise or not. Plough might not even get a game these days. He was a terrific ball extractor but a horrible kick. Worse than Todd Viney.

'ploughs' style was as a slow player, he got plenty of ball & linked up really well,  ran all game plowing the field as he want. a key player in his sides.  yeah short kick, jamtin.  Some here are mentioning Tyson's kicking.

We need a run all game collector of footy.  especially as the rotations get reduced.  Time to start him now on endurance running.

[dee-luded 2,959]

9 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Just mentioned on fox that Brayshaw will play VFL this week. 

He must be more underdone than I thought cause I would have had him in the team this week. 

Her injured his knee couldn't run much for some time, & hasn't had any decent match practice to get a good blowout.  and so he can't force anyone out of the team on form basis.

[junk 342]

Tyson needs to speed up,good point. Brayshaw needs the run is basically what i said before. Dunn for O'Mac is a possible change,depends where Dunn is in the pecking order.

With the current round one team on the improve we should beat Essendon by 80 pts …….. I reckon that's a least what they can do. Once BOP ( Brayshaw,Oliver and Petracca) combines  we will be much better off.  Who we drop will become a dilemma for our coaches…………… very interesting.

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

1 hour ago, Ted Fidge said:

Dunno if that's praise or not. Plough might not even get a game these days. He was a terrific ball extractor but a horrible kick. Worse than Todd Viney.

Plough would be kicking regular "6s" If he was playing for the doggies at Etihad now (roof closed)

[dazzledavey36 55,992]

4 hours ago, stuie said:

I hate these type of comments. Have you ever actually played footy? With a decent structure you don't spot a lead and then stop, have a think, weigh up if you think they'll mark it or not, ponder their form, maybe consider what Demonlanders post about their marking abilities... You follow the plan, you automatically reward the lead. How long do you think guys have to make decisions in AFL footy exactly?

 

Are you seriously trying to question whether i have played footy or not? This coming from you.?? Lol wowee... You should be the last bloke on questioning someone on playing the actual sport because clearly you lack in the football smarts upstairs between your shoulders.

You reward the lead of course BUT if you actually read what i wrote i go on to mention that at TIMES Dawes would get out into space only to be ignored and his teamates taking a much risky option. This is a telling point that not even his own teamates trust him because he cannot simply mark the footy. And even if he still creates a contests, defenders were able to read off him and rebound off our forward fifty.

Now if actually PLAYED the game you would realize you will always have the one or two teamates that you cannot trust to do the job properly. Its nothing out of the ordinary, its just footy. Again i don't expect you do get that.

Watts is a perfect example of this. Over the years howw many times have we seen him have a 5m lead on his opponent or get out into space on his own only to get ignored completely by his teamates. Its a trust issue because the couldn't trust him to win the one on one contests. 

Now that Watts has worked on his physicality his teamates trust him and so do supporters. It showed on the weekend and the Nab challange. Massive respect to Jack Watts on working hard on that.

 

[TGR 1,367]

In:  MFC supporter smugness; opposition supporter ridicule; Sam Mitchell-like gestures.

 

Out: Any memory of 2000 GF

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

19 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Yeah, it was interesting that. I took from his comments that Dunn won't be coming back this week and that we may well drop Pedersen too. Then again, it makes little sense to give up that advantage, unless of course your talls get run off.

I'd rather see Brayshaw in for OMac and either Frost/Pedersen sent back (likely Pedersen). We were too tall last week anyway and clogged the forward line.

[nutbean 8,838]

20 hours ago, mauriesy said:

If those are what goes through a player's mind when they look up the field, no wonder they're sometimes indecisive.

And when a team has struggled like we have in the not too distant past that is exactly what I would have called us - indecisive.( more accurately - lacking in confidence to be decisive)

How many times do you hear coaches say  " we didn't take the game on". 

Top teams back their own ability in and pull the trigger first time thus moving the ball quickly. Struggling teams tend to stop/start - a mixture of those upfield not working hard enough to get free and those with the ball not willing or having confidence to release the ball quickly to a player making a lead.

 

Edit - what a breath of fresh air Aaron VDB was in the last quarter - getting a free kick and jumping up and running off when the player was next to him getting the ball to a one on one for Hogan. Caught everyone off guard and earned Hogan a free kick as GWS did not have the time to set themselves up properly. Pulling the trigger first time - I love it ! 

 

[DeeSpencer 26,496]

20 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Some calling for Pederson to be dropped, but giving Tyson another week. FMD.

What do you base this on? It's putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. 

Pedersen did an acceptable job down back in the last quarter, and helped create a goal with a nice bump in the first quarter. Otherwise he did little up forward and it makes sense to pick Dunn ahead of him down back and pick between him and Frost for the forward role. He'd be unlucky to get dropped but that's footy. 

i'm not convinced Tyson played better or worse than Pedersen, but unless there's another centre square midfielder in line to take his spot then I wouldn't drop him. Vanders is better forward. Harmes didn't do a lot on the weekend. Brayshaw probably isn't ready to play mainly midfield. I can't see a lot of options. Michie is the obvious one but I'd be giving Tyson more time before picking Michie ahead of him.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

What do you base this on? It's putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. 

Pedersen did an acceptable job down back in the last quarter, and helped create a goal with a nice bump in the first quarter. Otherwise he did little up forward and it makes sense to pick Dunn ahead of him down back and pick between him and Frost for the forward role. He'd be unlucky to get dropped but that's footy. 

i'm not convinced Tyson played better or worse than Pedersen, but unless there's another centre square midfielder in line to take his spot then I wouldn't drop him. Vanders is better forward. Harmes didn't do a lot on the weekend. Brayshaw probably isn't ready to play mainly midfield. I can't see a lot of options. Michie is the obvious one but I'd be giving Tyson more time before picking Michie ahead of him.

Pederson provided a target up forward (early on), and I thought he was solid. Definitely not in the frame to be dropped IMO.

Tyson on the other hand, I thought he was very poor by foot. I watched the game a couple of times during the week, and I couldn't make a case for Tyson this week. He needs to go back to Casey and sharpen up his basic foot skills. I was however impressed by Tyson's vision, it tends to have improved, or at least his ability to look (and wait for best option) for the handball. He has clearly worked on his game over the summer, but still has A LOT to do IMO.

Both Kennedy and Oliver looked for more effective (midfielders) than Tyson on the weekend. Kennedy looked more effective right away. Tyson is overrated on this forum, and generally by most people. He isn't a great midfielder, does have a lot of work to do, and I would drop him so he can do that work. He wasn't great on the weekend, and in truth, hasn't been great for a long while.

[640MD 3,510]

16 hours ago, TGR said:

In:  MFC supporter smugness; opposition supporter ridicule; Sam Mitchell-like gestures.

 

Out: Any memory of 2000 GF

Yes we cant be too smug or sure of ourselves   I remember 2000 and 1987       1987  we were smug just pleased to get there

200 probably same but I expected better result       No I wont forget !

 

[picket fence 18,066]

I think Minimal changes but if we feel so inclined I would think the first 2 might occur

Dunn for O Mac inj

Brayshaw for Harmes

and then possibly 

Heretier L for either M Jones or if wet a tall possibly Frost! I wouldn't drop Pedo.. far too valuable in a variety of positions!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

1 hour ago, 640MD said:

Yes we cant be too smug or sure of ourselves   I remember 2000 and 1987       1987  we were smug just pleased to get there

200 probably same but I expected better result       No I wont forget !

 

If we ever actually get up to the 'contender' level I will be the smuggest MF in Melbourne

we've earned it