Changes vs Essendon

[Wiseblood 24,637]

18 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

I think he might.

I think he might too, although if he is to be dropped it will be for either Brayshaw or Lumumba.  Trac and Trenners aren't ready yet.

As much as many aren't fans of Lumumba, and I get that, the FD is and I can see him coming back into the side this week.  

[Ted Lasso 18,783]

19 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I think he might too, although if he is to be dropped it will be for either Brayshaw or Lumumba.  Trac and Trenners aren't ready yet.

As much as many aren't fans of Lumumba, and I get that, the FD is and I can see him coming back into the side this week.  

I think he might go out for Brayshaw, i reckon the club will be keen to get guys like Viney, TMac, Hogan, Tyson, Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver and the real core of the side going forward to play as many games together as possible

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Peter Griffen said:

I think he might go out for Brayshaw, i reckon the club will be keen to get guys like Viney, TMac, Hogan, Tyson, Brayshaw, Petracca, Oliver and the real core of the side going forward to play as many games together as possible

I think that is likely to be happen too.  I think the club sees a bright future for Harmes in that half forward role, but the quality of someone like Brayshaw is too hard to ignore.  Whether they give him another week in the magoos is another thing.

[Ted Lasso 18,783]

19 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I think that is likely to be happen too.  I think the club sees a bright future for Harmes in that half forward role, but the quality of someone like Brayshaw is too hard to ignore.  Whether they give him another week in the magoos is another thing.

He really didn't miss all that long in terms of running so i don't see Brayshaw as being all that far away fitness wise anyway, Harmes i really rate but i think having to break back into the side will do him a lot of good! he's certainly good enough to do it.

adding Dunn and Lumumba to the backline i think will really help as well! good bit of experience down there

[stuie 7,374]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Pedersen was crap in the forward line but him being moved out of the forward line was not the sole reason it clicked in the fourth.

We also got Frost higher up, got Kent and Garlett out of there, and Gawn stopped floating in front of Hogan.

I also thought Pedersen did well when he went into the backline. That kind of versatility is something Roos has said this week we are looking for in our list, so that's going to get him credits.

One option may be to move Pedersen to CHB this week instead of bringing Dunn back. I'm not sold on a Hogan-Pedersen-Frost-Watts forward line and one solution may be to move Pedersen back rather than to drop one of him and Frost.

Regardless, Frost has really got to improve as a forward because right now I don't like it.

Yep, I didn't say it was the sole reason, but it helped. I've said in another post that, to me, Garlett to the middle was the turning point. It halted their run and gave us some speed out of the middle, vital.

Frost will improve, he's young and it was his first proper game back in nearly a year.

Pedersen won't, he's old and was noticeably struggling to get around the ground after half time.

100% agree that you can't have Pedo and Frost in the forward line along with Watts and Hogan, was just a mess of packs for the first 3 quarters. That's where we missed Dawes' ability to help a forward line gel. As much as he is maligned here, Dawes is an exceptionally handy teacher to have for Hogan and Weed learning about making space for each other.

I just can't see Pedo being moved to the backline when we have Dunn waiting to come in. To me, that's an easy choice between those two.

 

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

21 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yep, I didn't say it was the sole reason, but it helped. I've said in another post that, to me, Garlett to the middle was the turning point. It halted their run and gave us some speed out of the middle, vital.

Frost will improve, he's young and it was his first proper game back in nearly a year.

Pedersen won't, he's old and was noticeably struggling to get around the ground after half time.

100% agree that you can't have Pedo and Frost in the forward line along with Watts and Hogan, was just a mess of packs for the first 3 quarters. That's where we missed Dawes' ability to help a forward line gel. As much as he is maligned here, Dawes is an exceptionally handy teacher to have for Hogan and Weed learning about making space for each other.

I just can't see Pedo being moved to the backline when we have Dunn waiting to come in. To me, that's an easy choice between those two.

 

Dawes played in both the Carlton and Essendon losses that featured abysmal bombing of the ball in to a crowded forward line last year. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Hogan learnt some of his 'arm up, kick it long to me' behaviour from Dawes who has noticeably reduced his desire to lead up at the ball over the last few years. Even the way Jesse wasn't jumping at the ball was very Dawes like. 

I'm hoping Frost, Watts, Hogan and Vanders can create a forward line together where each uses their considerable pace to create space and we aren't forced to revert to Dawes or Pedersen. 

[Adam The God 29,372]

51 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think he might too, although if he is to be dropped it will be for either Brayshaw or Lumumba.  Trac and Trenners aren't ready yet.

As much as many aren't fans of Lumumba, and I get that, the FD is and I can see him coming back into the side this week.  

Yeah, I see Brayshaw for Harmes as the logical selection this week. I think Dunn will come in for OMac and Lumumba will be left out an extra week. Funnily enough, I see Matt Jones keeping Lumumba out of the team at the moment. 

[What 18,810]

Not sure if Lumumba will play this week but he should have a much better season now that the games have opened up, the sub rule is gone and we are attacking and kicking more goals.

His game style is not conducive to slow, congested footy as we saw last season.

[jackaub 1,402]

16 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

In: Brayshaw, Lumumba, Dunn.

Out: Tyson, OMac, Frost.

Right Kinga

I was at the game hardly saw Tyson

Watched the replay on Sunday- hardly saw Tyson. Watched the replay again last night -hardly saw Tyson

When you don't see a midfielder in the group of players contesting the ball there might be a problem.

Haven't looked at his stats but he doesn't work hard enough IMO and his skills are missing. He looks completely disinterested and is becoming a liability with his rising clanger count.

If I was to suggest only one change it would be him, unfortunately OMac is injured and Dunn or Henrieta will come in.

Should Brayshaw be available Tyson definitely out.

[nutbean 8,838]

11 hours ago, dee-eee said:

Hard to share the enthusiasm for including Lumumba this week .  Now in his 30th year , his 2015 season was pretty ordinary although I admit his  manic "run-on-at-all-costs" outlook did make the heart flutter a bit .

Surgery on both ankles at seasons end may shed a little light as to why his 2015 was pretty ordinary ?

[nutbean 8,838]

6 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Right Kinga

I was at the game hardly saw Tyson

Watched the replay on Sunday- hardly saw Tyson. Watched the replay again last night -hardly saw Tyson

When you don't see a midfielder in the group of players contesting the ball there might be a problem.

.

I think the problem may lie in your viewing skills.

It wasn't a good game from Tyson and he had three very bad clangers but he hardly had the ball 17 times and hardly took 5 marks and hardly had a couple of tackles and hardly pumped inside 50 -  3 times. 

I think he has enough credits in the bank that he won't get dropped after one game.

 

[Ted Lasso 18,783]

I didn't think Dom was terrible, i thought there were far worse players on the ground, his disposal is a bit lazy but the coaches will be in his ear about it already no doubt, i think he's to good a player to leave out this early on, if it keeps up i'm sure they'll look at it, but not after round 1 where he had 17 touches and a few score involvements in a good win

[stuie 7,374]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Dawes played in both the Carlton and Essendon losses that featured abysmal bombing of the ball in to a crowded forward line last year. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Hogan learnt some of his 'arm up, kick it long to me' behaviour from Dawes who has noticeably reduced his desire to lead up at the ball over the last few years. Even the way Jesse wasn't jumping at the ball was very Dawes like.

Sorry, but this is just a bit silly DS.

Aside from the fact Dawes very very rarely plays deep while "waving his arms and saying kick it long to me", and you're completely wrong about him not leading (even his usual haters admit how much ground he covers and how well he leads even if he doesn't always take the mark), it's just ridiculous to suggest someone who is a respected leader at our club has taught a bloke entering his second season to be a sook when he doesn't get his way. Honestly mate, if you were going to make a stretch like taht I hope you did some yoga first.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

9 hours ago, dieter said:

Why this sudden unlove for Dunn? What's he dunn wrong?

It's a good question. He's no longer vice-Captain or in the leadership group and he was picked as an emergency last week, which suggests he wasn't injured, just not (in the eyes of the selectors) good enough to replace any of the other talls, but in particular O McDonald. Has the footy department lost confidence in him? If so, is it an onfield performance issue or has he done something else the club doesn't like, such as throwing the toys out of the cot when he wasn't included in the leadership group?

[nutbean 8,838]

29 minutes ago, stuie said:

Sorry, but this is just a bit silly DS.

Aside from the fact Dawes very very rarely plays deep while "waving his arms and saying kick it long to me", and you're completely wrong about him not leading (even his usual haters admit how much ground he covers and how well he leads even if he doesn't always take the mark), it's just ridiculous to suggest someone who is a respected leader at our club has taught a bloke entering his second season to be a sook when he doesn't get his way. Honestly mate, if you were going to make a stretch like taht I hope you did some yoga first.

 

Not just silly - just plain wrong.

The knock on Dawes regarding his hands are spot on - he does not take enough marks ( and drops marks when he is in a good position). But as you rightly point out, he works really hard on leading up the ground and I have seen him give a spray to others for not minding the mark or running to mark the same player defensively that he is covering but I am yet to see him "sook". And his 1% er's are his trademark  but again, as mentioned elsewhere, 1%'ers are not enough - a power forward is paid to take marks and kick goals and he has not done enough of either of these. 

 

[Ted Lasso 18,783]

19 hours ago, nutbean said:

Not just silly - just plain wrong.

The knock on Dawes regarding his hands are spot on - he does not take enough marks ( and drops marks when he is in a good position). But as you rightly point out, he works really hard on leading up the ground and I have seen him give a spray to others for not minding the mark or running to mark the same player defensively that he is covering but I am yet to see him "sook". And his 1% er's are his trademark  but again, as mentioned elsewhere, 1%'ers are not enough - a power forward is paid to take marks and kick goals and he has not done enough of either of these. 

 

Nail on the head, and he's not even getting close to what our minimum expectations of him would have been imo, and injury is becoming more and more of a concern.

[chook fowler 19,251]

I agree about Frost - at this stage of the career he is, in the words of Jack Dyer, where the ball ain't. Needs further development.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

19 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

In: Brayshaw, Lumumba, Dunn.

Out: Tyson, OMac, Frost.

Lumumba yes. Tyson I would give one more week. Dunn for Frost if available. 

[In Harmes Way 7,700]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

It's a good question. He's no longer vice-Captain or in the leadership group and he was picked as an emergency last week, which suggests he wasn't injured, just not (in the eyes of the selectors) good enough to replace any of the other talls, but in particular O McDonald. Has the footy department lost confidence in him? If so, is it an onfield performance issue or has he done something else the club doesn't like, such as throwing the toys out of the cot when he wasn't included in the leadership group?

This is exactly where my head is LDVC, hopefully he's good for the weekend (mentally/physically) because I felt we missed  his length kicking out from full back to break the lines (which was why I believe Bernie started taking the kickins in the 2nd qtr, and wasn't as effective as Dunn IMHO)

[rjay 24,600]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Sorry, but this is just a bit silly DS.

Aside from the fact Dawes very very rarely plays deep while "waving his arms and saying kick it long to me", and you're completely wrong about him not leading (even his usual haters admit how much ground he covers and how well he leads even if he doesn't always take the mark), it's just ridiculous to suggest someone who is a respected leader at our club has taught a bloke entering his second season to be a sook when he doesn't get his way. Honestly mate, if you were going to make a stretch like taht I hope you did some yoga first.

 

I've often seen Dawes trying to get the ball over the back rather than lead up at the ball. It's one of the big issues I have with him.

To me he often goes to the wrong places & makes the wrong decisions.

I don't blame him for Hogan though, all forwards need to get on their bike and cut the wresting contests. Even big "Plugger" was at his best when he was on the move leading up at the ball and he could wrestle.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

12 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I think he might.

Provided some decent pressure in the forward line. A nice goal early on .... A Clanger thru the mid was about his only blemish on the day. Young players do this from time to time as long as they don't continually do it as part of their general game. Only 7 effective disposals on the day but 7th best disposal %, 3 of those ahead of him defenders. Didn't get enough of the pill maybe but 2nd lowest time on ground behind Clarry.

Like to see how he goes this week but probably one of the first cabs once Gus is up.

P.S. One of the first but not before Bugg who statistically (and in real life from my point of view on the day) ranked behind Harmes. We need more than one week's effort before making harsh decisions on anyone IMO but again once Brayshaw is fully fit he's more than likely going to dislodge one of these 2.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Rusty Nails

[nutbean 8,838]

9 minutes ago, rjay said:

I've often seen Dawes trying to get the ball over the back rather than lead up at the ball. It's one of the big issues I have with him.

To me he often goes to the wrong places & makes the wrong decisions.

I don't blame him for Hogan though, all forwards need to get on their bike and cut the wresting contests. Even big "Plugger" was at his best when he was on the move leading up at the ball and he could wrestle.

No better example than Wayne Carey ( and his duels with Glen Jakovich). Carey is arguably the best forward of the current generation and what made him so good was his tremendous marking combined with his work ethic - running his opponents ragged - getting in front and letting his strong hands grab the ball. Jakovich constantly bettered him because Carey abandoned all the things that made him great and just wanted to wrestle with a guy who was stronger than him.

[Coq au vin 755]

On 26 March 2016 at 8:25 PM, AmDamDemon said:

In - Dunn, Brayshaw

Out - Omac,  Tyson

Smash the cheats by 200 to justify the AFL relocating them to Tassie as the "Hobart Rehabbers"

OMG I hope we don't lose. ???

[ArtificialWisdom 4,039]

11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm hoping Frost, Watts, Hogan and Vanders can create a forward line together where each uses their considerable pace to create space and we aren't forced to revert to Dawes or Pedersen. 

I agree with the premise of consistent forwards but you can't build a forward line around two terrible kicks, I love both frost and vanders intent by if they don't start becoming scoreboard threats Pederson will need to be the man for a couple more years

Vanders in the middle is a much better prospect imo. However with the talent we have comming through the middle I do wonder if he is a means to an end more than the end itself. I hope I'm wrong cos he has a fantastic contested mark but I feel he is gonna be a best 25/26 type in a couple of years 

[stuie 7,374]

14 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I agree with the premise of consistent forwards but you can't build a forward line around two terrible kicks, I love both frost and vanders intent by if they don't start becoming scoreboard threats Pederson will need to be the man for a couple more years

Vanders in the middle is a much better prospect imo. However with the talent we have comming through the middle I do wonder if he is a means to an end more than the end itself. I hope I'm wrong cos he has a fantastic contested mark but I feel he is gonna be a best 25/26 type in a couple of years 

vandenBerg kicked two goals including the match winner on Saturday.

Pedersen kicked 0, including putting an easy shot out on the full.