Training - Friday 29th January, 2016

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Saty do you have an inklingon who might replace Melksham off the rookie list?

This is a personal opinion, think they are leaning more to Michie, really push him at training, but as I said to BAirCo, could be any of the four, they still have high hopes for King, not as a ruckman, but a 200cm forward, lovely kick for goal, Wagner is a mature head and body, some neat skills and White's development has been really good and owns that left foot cannon....christ it's good these days to even have four rookies who wouldn't be out of place if elevated to the main list

[dworship 3,342]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

INTO THE GRAY by Whispering Jack

The gray drizzly conditions that faced the very few who braved the trip to Casey Fields for yesterday's Melbourne training session were in stark contrast to my last visit for a training run two years ago when a north wind blew, the temperature hovered above the forty mark and the flies were impossible [FAREWELL TO MADAME TUSSAUD]. This time, the ground had been soaked by heavy overnight rain that persisted into the morning and was still coming down when the players ran out onto the ground. Despite the conditions, it was a good standard work out but one needs to remember that the start of the season is two months away and training sessions such as these are a long way from the real thing.

Paul Roos watched proceedings from under cover in the grandstand while his assistants supervised on the field. There was a main group which did a spirited warm up and then there were others doing different forms of work, mainly rehab stuff but they were thankfully reasonably low in numbers. Jake Spencer ran on his own most of the time, Chris Dawes ran around a bit and then disappeared (from my view at least), Heitier Lumumba made a brief appearance, Jack Trengove was on the far side of the ground working with two assistants clad in red. From time to time, a player or groups of players broke off to do some specialised work, Jesse Hogan ran off on his own once or twice and later, we saw Ben Newton and Christian Petracca walking laps. Very few of the main list were missing altogether. I didn't see Dean Terlich and of course, Jake Melksham is off limits until November.

After some running and ball work, the larger part of the group was split into three groups of 10-12 in blue, green and white tops for a form of match simulation but because of their numbers, you couldn't really get a sense of their proposed positions or roles for the season.

Melbourne's midfield has been underperforming over the past decade. It has been a concern for years and to overcome this was one of Roos' main objectives on assuming his role as coach. We have seen good improvement since but in the main, it's been slow and it's hard to assess the change between seasons because of the operation of the midfield theory of relativity. By this I mean, that while we know the makeup of that division in the other clubs, it's difficult to work out how much we need to improve to reach the standard of the other midfields which themselves change from year to year.

We know that we have an abundance of youth in contention for midfield places alongside Nathan Jones and Bernie Vince, that Dom Tyson is emerging in class despite injury setbacks last year, that Jack Viney's an absolute tiger for the football, that Angus Brayshaw and Christian Salem are up and comers who could rise up the charts like a bullet and Aaron vandenBerg looks in great shape as a big bodied mid. There are also some kids like Alex Neal-Bullen, Billy Stretch and recruit Clayton Oliver who could burst their way into the mix with a few others like Matt Jones who looks stronger this year, the injured Newton and possibly Petracca if the coaches decide to play him in that role. Viv Michie looks the logical selection if the club elevates him from the rookie list. 

But how will they set up and how much will other clubs improve or come back to the field in this area? One session in the wet certainly won't answer the question and we've been through so many episodes of false hope over the years to guess. I remember not all that long ago, coming to this ground and witnessing Tom Scully and Jack Trengove light up the entire playing group in their very early days as young recruits at the club at a time when other young hopefuls with midfield promise were plentiful in number but look how that worked out?

That said, I liked the way the midfield worked together; their competitiveness stood out and if they have to fight for positions as hard as I expect they will in 2016, then there will be improvement.

Whether that improvement will translate to elevation out of the bottom third into the middle of the table and even better will, I suspect, also depend very much on a more than a few players from outside the midfield zone.

Jesse Hogan looked great in the wet. He's a big, brooding hulk of a man who stands out even at training. The competition's rising star gives the impression that in a bigger, stronger form in the next couple of seasons, he is going to take the competition by the scruff of the neck  and, in doing so, the team's fortunes could soar. I thought much the same a few years ago with Mitch Clark before he was injured but he simply lacked the support around him to enable the forward line to become a force. We bemoaned the lack of crumbers around Clark to take advantage of on ground contested situations around the big man if the opposition spoiled him. 

These days we will have Jeff Garlett, Dean Kent, Jay Kennedy-Harris and possibly Ben Kennedy to take roles up forward and that's not to mention the rapidly improving James Harmes and also Petracca who will possibly start as a half forward. The second key forward position might be problematic given Dawes' continuing leg problems but Cam Pedersen is one of those good honest toilers who could fill the bill (as well as provide some in game ruck relief) in the interim while some of the younger tall forward prospects develop. Alternatively, Sam Frost could be used there and of course, there is always the hope that Jack Watts' sublime skills finally achieve enlightenment with a mid career step up in the intensity of his output. Watts did some very nice things on the ground yesterday interspersed with the odd wet weather error but he moves so smoothly and disposes so neatly that he could become Paul Roos' last big challenge. Find him a role where that talent can finally come to the fore.

I doubt whether Max Gawn has had a true pre season since he came to the club already in rehab after his first knee reconstruction. He is experiencing one now and looks the goods. Known as a bit of a joker around the club, he could seriously force his way into the upper echelon of AFL ruckmen and if he does that, then the club gets an immediate lift. If he's injured or drops in form, it could spell trouble as there's not a great deal of back up depth. Jake Spencer is running laps at the moment and the King boys are a way off.

Tom McDonald is now the main man in what is looming as a solid defence along with the likes of Lynden Dunn, Colin Garland and I hope Frost is played there as well. Tom Bugg looks like someone who will fit in well with Nev Jetta and hopefully Lumumba will get back to his exciting best from the Collingwood years. 

Then there are the two former captains Jack Grimes and Trengove. They were dealt a harsh hand given the captaincy of a troubled club without the full support of a fractured playing group and things were made tougher for them as a result of some frustrating injuries. They are among the club's wild cards. If they can regain regular places and play to the standards they were once considered capable of reaching in mid-career, it would make an enormous difference to the club's fortunes. Grimes, who was showing some good signs late last season, trained solidly yesterday. Trengove is still in rehab from his foot injury woes, but worked out with some of the assistant coaches and did not look that far from resuming full training. Two years ago and just before his current injury flared, he played a dominant role in a NAB Challenge upset victory over Richmond. It's all a matter of luck and outside chance from here on in, but nothing will be achieved from lack of trying and Trengove appears to be working his butt off to claim his last chance to resurrect his career.

Clayton Oliver's 12 month journey from an overweight sufferer of osteitis pubis to Morrish Medallist and number four draft selection is well documented. It still worried me that Melbourne passed on such a well credentialed midfielder as Darcy Parish to get Oliver but seeing him out there in the wet competing with and against some experienced AFL bodies was mighty comforting. He could come very close to repeating Angus Brayshaw's 2015 effort of making the team for the first round. Sam Weideman moved well, has good height and I can see him getting game time later in the season. Liam Hulett already has a good build but his lack of grounding at TAC Cup level might mean he has to wait a bit longer. It was hard to draw any conclusions on Mitch King in the conditions and given that I didn't see that much ruck work in the hour that I was there.

Of the rookies, Josh Wagner didn't look lost at sea and contested well in the match simulation - I'm sure he'll get a chance during the NAB Challenge. I wasn't expecting much from Joel Smith given that he's a category B rookie coming from outside the system but he's athletic and keen and the day in the wet at Casey would have been a good tune up for him at the place that will be his home ground for the next twelve months. Here's hoping he becomes another Mark Blicavs.

After an hour, it was time to leave. I noticed Colin Garland leaving the field early but nothing looked amiss. It didn't leave me without a spring in the step in the expectation of the coming season which, after this weekend will creep up on us after the tennis and cricket are finally behind us.

Thanks Jack, nicely written as always. Did you see much of Bugg? Where do you see him fitting into the backline debate?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Anyone know what Lumumba's role is likely to be this year?

I had thought it'd be Melksham and him playing off HB. With Salem pushing into the midfield and Grimes playing principally at Casey.

 

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

5 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Anyone know what Lumumba's role is likely to be this year?

I had thought it'd be Melksham and him playing off HB. With Salem pushing into the midfield and Grimes playing principally at Casey.

 

Run like hell then kick it long to the wing/chf area without looking if there is a player there waiting for it...

Pretty much the same role he always has had.

 

(ahhh... yeah. Not a fan. Never was. Cant see that changing)

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

11 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Anyone know what Lumumba's role is likely to be this year?

I had thought it'd be Melksham and him playing off HB. With Salem pushing into the midfield and Grimes playing principally at Casey.

 

Can't see him being ready to play till April, he has missed the whole block before Xmas and has just started running

[Deestroy All 14,262]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

WJ, I'm the same, can't see all the love for Frost to be a lock in defence, only played 3 games for MFC, true you can see the potential, but we didn't have him in there last season and the defence did ok under pressure, let's see him earn a spot through Casey or outstanding NAB performances

Last year when Frost jumped on a late plane (NT?) and someone suggested it was because he was going to play forward, you laughed it off as the most ridiculous suggestion ever. Next minute he's playing forward. 

Now you don't see him as a defender?

The reason so many see him as a defender is obvious, he played in defence at Gdubbya, he's  huge with great closing speed and a long reach. 

His goal kicking leaves a lot to be desired. 

 

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the training reports, as always they're appreciated, they were a lot more enjoyable a few weeks ago, though. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Anyone know what Lumumba's role is likely to be this year?

I had thought it'd be Melksham and him playing off HB. With Salem pushing into the midfield and Grimes playing principally at Casey.

 

I was hopeful that he would have spent some time across half back/wing, rotating with both Melksham and Salem.  I feel as though that stays the same with possibly Grimes, for example, taking Melksham's role.

While his output, particularly in terms of getting his hands on the ball, was well down on expectations, he still played very well when given a role on a forward and was rarely beaten in that regard.  Once fit he should be able to slot back into the side nicely.

[Middymalt 244]

On 29 January 2016 at 3:00 PM, Bossdog said:

I often wonder about posters on this site

Jessie Hogan doesn't smile.............It must mean he's going back to WA

Jack Watts has a laugh at training.............Must have a crap attitude.

I am working on a robot that sort of half smiles at training..........Means he is half happy to be out there but doesn't want to go anywhere.

Should keep everyone happy.

I was at training for the full session and Watts attitude to training was a joke , he's far from a leader but that's he's choice he trains hard but guys like Vince and Jones set the standards and guys like Watts follow.

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

3 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

Last year when Frost jumped on a late plane (NT?) and someone suggested it was because he was going to play forward, you laughed it off as the most ridiculous suggestion ever. Next minute he's playing forward. 

Now you don't see him as a defender?

The reason so many see him as a defender is obvious, he played in defence at Gdubbya, he's  huge with great closing speed and a long reach. 

His goal kicking leaves a lot to be desired. 

 

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the training reports, as always they're appreciated, they were a lot more enjoyable a few weeks ago, though. 

He was playing fwd because he had to, I still don't think he should play fwd, I just want him to earn his spot, we have seen 3 games,  I can see the potential but with the injury last year think that put his development back, Ross will play him when he thinks he is ready

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

I think Frost , Oliver are over rated and i think M.White is under rated and going to be a long term proposition off HB for us. 

Never understood the love for Frost. 

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

7 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

If I had my way I'd have Frost FB, Dunn FB and Frost playing third man up. Tall, athletic, can take a mark and would make a lot of contests to punch the ball. His disposal isn't great but neither is Garlands. Put Salem and White down there with Jetta. 

Say that again?

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

5 minutes ago, Munga said:

I think Frost , Oliver are over rated and i think M.White is under rated and going to be a long term proposition off HB for us. 

Never understood the love for Frost. 

Of course Oliver is overrated, he hasn't played a game yet, he must be the second coming

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

54 minutes ago, Munga said:

I think Frost , Oliver are over rated and i think M.White is under rated and going to be a long term proposition off HB for us. 

Never understood the love for Frost. 

What's a third man up have to do? Spoil, take the occasional intercept mark. Frost's highlight package was impressive and that seems to be the currency about now.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I was hopeful that he would have spent some time across half back/wing, rotating with both Melksham and Salem.  I feel as though that stays the same with possibly Grimes, for example, taking Melksham's role.

While his output, particularly in terms of getting his hands on the ball, was well down on expectations, he still played very well when given a role on a forward and was rarely beaten in that regard.  Once fit he should be able to slot back into the side nicely.

I can't buy that. The defence of H/Garland/Grimes is that they can do a job defensively. People often refer to Garlands ability to play on talls and smalls, but he doesn't play small with the ball in hand. We have been getting bogged down in our back 50 for years because we lack players with elite kicking to get the ball out. Melksham we assume was picked up for that reason, we must try someone on the other flank that can kick the footy, if that means playing a kid so be it. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

1 hour ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Say that again?

Look at Gibson, what's his game centred around?

- reading the play

- dropping off his man to be third man up and spoil the ball

-take the occasional intercept mark

- his disposal is serviceable not elite

Frosts highlight package shows he has the ability to do those things. 

Lake/Frawley/Gibson don't have elite disposal, it's the three players around them that do. 

[Yossarian 1,820]

58 minutes ago, ProDee said:

<post deleted>

Just ignore him mate. Makes the site far more bearable.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jesus Hoganshaw
The betterment of society.

[Gator 17,281]

22 minutes ago, Jesus Hoganshaw said:

Just ignore him mate. Makes the site far more bearable.

True.  Deleted.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

7 hours ago, Middymalt said:

I was at training for the full session and Watts attitude to training was a joke , he's far from a leader but that's he's choice he trains hard but guys like Vince and Jones set the standards and guys like Watts follow.

?

[jumbo returns 6,740]

Jeff Garlett......trade/steal of the decade.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Gift.

Thanks Mick.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

11 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I can't buy that. The defence of H/Garland/Grimes is that they can do a job defensively. People often refer to Garlands ability to play on talls and smalls, but he doesn't play small with the ball in hand. We have been getting bogged down in our back 50 for years because we lack players with elite kicking to get the ball out. Melksham we assume was picked up for that reason, we must try someone on the other flank that can kick the footy, if that means playing a kid so be it. 

I said Grimes as an example.  I'll overlook your passionate dislike for Grimes though and say that, outside of him, who is this 'kid' of which you speak?  White hasn't been promoted off the rookie list so, until he is, we can't have him in the equation.  We still need an experienced head down there who CAN provide something both defensively and offensively.  Grimes CAN do both, although his penchant for missing the odd target is well documented.

The way I see it, is that we don't have a huge amount of options down there.  We need to start winning games now so just throwing a kid to the wolves just doesn't cut it anymore.  If Grimes fails then we need to think a little more creatively about it.  I'd suggest Tom Bugg as an option but from what I can gather he is being groomed as a run with player for 2016 which will hopefully free up the likes of Vince and Viney.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Stupid question in a sense given that I watched every game last season, but how would people describe Cross's role last year?

He didn't really play off half back but he seemed to spend a lot of time down there, occasionally as a loose man, occasionally as a run with player/stopper.

I see Grimes as being able to slot into that role, whatever it was. But it wasn't an orthodox half back flanker role.

Salem and [not sure] to play off half back.

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ron Burgundy

[stuie 7,374]

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I said Grimes as an example.  I'll overlook your passionate dislike for Grimes though and say that, outside of him, who is this 'kid' of which you speak?  White hasn't been promoted off the rookie list so, until he is, we can't have him in the equation.  We still need an experienced head down there who CAN provide something both defensively and offensively.  Grimes CAN do both, although his penchant for missing the odd target is well documented.

The way I see it, is that we don't have a huge amount of options down there.  We need to start winning games now so just throwing a kid to the wolves just doesn't cut it anymore.  If Grimes fails then we need to think a little more creatively about it.  I'd suggest Tom Bugg as an option but from what I can gather he is being groomed as a run with player for 2016 which will hopefully free up the likes of Vince and Viney.

Maybe Salem or Stretch? Salem has already been doing it a fair bit, but I think either could provide a great rebounding HB option this year.

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by stuie

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I take it Jayden Hunt is too inexperienced/not sufficiently defensive to perform that role.

White seems to be in the mix for it (even though he is currently a rookie).

And I suspect more than one rookie will be elevated this year due to injuries etc. Possible that both Michie and White will be elevated.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, stuie said:

Maybe Salem or Stretch? Salem has already been doing it a fair bit, but I think either could provide a great rebounding HB option this year.

 

Sorry mate, should have been more specific and I mentioned it in an earlier post - I was assuming that we would have been looking at a rotation of Salem/Lumumba/Melksham across half back that would rotate through a wing and the bench as well.  With Melksham obviously out I was throwing Grimes up as the next best cab off the rank.  I know he has his flaws but we need to start winning games of football, not punting on kids, and thought he was our next best choice.

I wouldn't be against Stretch playing there either, although I worry about his strength in one on one situations.  Interested to see if he plays there in the NAB Cup.