The second ruck/forward rôle

[DeeSpencer 24,683]

Just canvassing some thoughts on this position which is one of our weaknesses:

Option A: Stick with what we have

Part 1.Pedersen (?Out of contract) or Dawes

Part 2. Max King rookie retention/promotion

Part 3. Frost or Tom McDonald as potential swingmen

Option B: - Draft

Brett Anderson's draft big board has twin brothers Harry and Ben McKay both 200cm in the top 25. I'm sure draft watchers will know of others.

Option C: Trade

Kreuzer - unlikely we will want to invest the money

Casboult - Don't like his wayward kicking and he's not really an athletic 2nd ruck

Josh Walker - only 196cm so not really a ruckman, makes some mistakes forward but on his day can kick goals. Would only be a slight upgrade on Pedersen and Dawes but much younger

I'd say sticking with what we have and looking for best available in the draft would be the best idea but instead of starting a thread on every big man who comes along I'd put them here.

What does everyone else think? Should we prioritise help in this position?

[Palace Dees 2,129]

It's an interesting discussion point. Will the dropping of the sub and reduction of interchange increase the instances of playing 2 ruckmen? Jamar may be required for another year after all. Of all positions, ruckmen are the hardest to pick as teenagers. Don't really know the rucking capacity of King as he has played in a Casey team with 2 established AFL experienced ruckmen and hasn't had much opportunity to show the club. Many examples of 2nd string ruckmen blossoming when given the no.1 role at their existing or a new club but very few recruits starring as the 2nd ruck/forward.

I prefer Option A and see what impact the new rules have and/or other other changes in the evolution of the game that occur each year.

[BAMF 4,084]

I'm a fan of getting a forward who can ruck rather than a ruck who can play forward.

What would we need to trade to get Josh Walker?

You would be hoping that he has some improvement in him still. He is still quite young I guess.

[rjay 24,577]

It's an interesting discussion point. Will the dropping of the sub and reduction of interchange increase the instances of playing 2 ruckmen? Jamar may be required for another year after all. Of all positions, ruckmen are the hardest to pick as teenagers. Don't really know the rucking capacity of King as he has played in a Casey team with 2 established AFL experienced ruckmen and hasn't had much opportunity to show the club. Many examples of 2nd string ruckmen blossoming when given the no.1 role at their existing or a new club but very few recruits starring as the 2nd ruck/forward.

I prefer Option A and see what impact the new rules have and/or other other changes in the evolution of the game that occur each year.

I'm not sure the changes will mean we get 2 rucks back in the game, maybe losing the sub frees up another bench spot so that could make a difference but with less interchanges you would think the rotations will be at a premium for the mids. Anyway, just thinking aloud here.

[DeeSpencer 24,683]

I'm not sure the changes will mean we get 2 rucks back in the game, maybe losing the sub frees up another bench spot so that could make a difference but with less interchanges you would think the rotations will be at a premium for the mids. Anyway, just thinking aloud here.

I agree the extra bench spot is wiped out by the drop in rotations.

But looking at the top teams Freo and Hawthorn play 2 rucks, whilst WC and Sydney play 200cm forwards who can legitimately ruck.

So either way the days of Pedersen or Dawes are numbered. We might be able to play a 2nd ruck more easily and just cop the drop in rotations but that's not a long term solution and Gawn struggles forward whilst Jamar and Spencer are both liabilities forward.

Zac Clarke is one I didn't mention in the first post, but even though he's nothing special as a player he'd probably cost a bit in terms of a trade and salary, he doesn't appeal to me.

[rjay 24,577]

I agree the extra bench spot is wiped out by the drop in rotations.

But looking at the top teams Freo and Hawthorn play 2 rucks, whilst WC and Sydney play 200cm forwards who can legitimately ruck.

So either way the days of Pedersen or Dawes are numbered. We might be able to play a 2nd ruck more easily and just cop the drop in rotations but that's not a long term solution and Gawn struggles forward whilst Jamar and Spencer are both liabilities forward.

Zac Clarke is one I didn't mention in the first post, but even though he's nothing special as a player he'd probably cost a bit in terms of a trade and salary, he doesn't appeal to me.

Clark of the Mitch variety is the type of player we need for this role.

You're right with Pedders and Dawes, we need someone really mobile who can pinch hit in the ruck.

Griffiths from the Tiges is not a bad ruck, he knows what he's doing and is 200cm but is a bit hit or miss in general...

We might be best going to draft &/or see how King comes up.

[Adam The God 29,298]

I'd enquire about Zac Smith. Though he's 25. I wouldn't give up anything more than a second or third rounder though.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Combination of options A & C for mine.

Have high hopes for Max King, but he's certainly going to take some time. So for me that means Pedersen holds a spot on our list for another year at least and I'd look to trade in one of Josh Walker, Ben Griffiths or Michael Apeness for the now while we wait on King to develop. And if King's a bust hopefully the player we trade in can hold the spot long term.

Walker I reckon we could land by trading Watts and getting a late pick back along with Walker. He's got some limitations, but can take a grab, and is really competative. He's come on a bit in the last two years and is out of contract. With the Cats having him, Clark, Stanley, Vardy on their list, he may look for other options.

Griffiths & Apeness we may be able to get with our 2nd round pick, although I was hoping to use that pick on another mid through a trade.

[rjay 24,577]

I'd enquire about Zac Smith. Though he's 25. I wouldn't give up anything more than a second or third rounder though.

I think Zac is more a ruck than a forward. He looked like being an absolute gun early days but his development has stalled. The knee didn't help...

[Adam The God 29,298]

I think Zac is more a ruck than a forward. He looked like being an absolute gun early days but his development has stalled. The knee didn't help...

He rested forward a couple of times this year, when he did get on the park. Wouldn't be the worst choice. Just don't give up a lot for him.

[w00dy 146]

Until he got injured, it seemed Frost was being groomed for this role. Still unknown how good a forward he'll be, but I think he's the man.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Until he got injured, it seemed Frost was being groomed for this role. Still unknown how good a forward he'll be, but I think he's the man.

Roos has stated previously on Roos' Views that they see Frost as moving into the backline rather then staying in that role he was playing at the start of this year.

Another option, but doubt we'd explore it could be Kurt Tippett?

Sydney trading Tippett out would allow them back into the trade market which they're after. Would also help them out with their salary cap.

As I said, doubt we'd look at it, but is certainly an option to maybe explore?

[Mach5 4,599]

I'm a fan of getting a forward who can ruck rather than a ruck who can play forward.

What would we need to trade to get Josh Walker?

You would be hoping that he has some improvement in him still. He is still quite young I guess.

I know that Chris Scott personally does not rate Walker, so I think we could get him for a fair return.

And I don't think Scott not rating him is any sort of slight, because he does rate Billy Smedts, so clearly his judgment is a bit suspect.

[Redleg 39,998]

He rested forward a couple of times this year, when he did get on the park. Wouldn't be the worst choice. Just don't give up a lot for him.

What about Howe a regular for 2 irregulars Hall and Smith. Could then trade Spencer. Keep 2 Max's and Fitzy.

[Redleg 39,998]

Roos has stated previously on Roos' Views that they see Frost as moving into the backline rather then staying in that role he was playing at the start of this year.

Another option, but doubt we'd explore it could be Kurt Tippett?

Sydney trading Tippett out would allow them back into the trade market which they're after. Would also help them out with their salary cap.

As I said, doubt we'd look at it, but is certainly an option to maybe explore?

Not now with Buddy's issues.

[rhaz 342]

It's a lot easier to just be a 'body' and compete in ruck contests, than it is to play forward. As people have said above, we need a second forward who can pinch hit in the ruck, not the other way around.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Just heard from a Carlton supporter mate at work that Casboult is on the way out the door as they're looking at replacing him with Josh Walker who's been mentioned on here a bit, including by me.

Personally I'd be more then happy with Casboult. Can take a mark, crash packs and go into the ruck. Lets just hope he doesn't have a set shot at goal!

Honestly though, any of:

Michael Apeness

Levi Casboult

Ben Griffiths

Josh Walker or

Jesse White

meet the needs of what we need. Although Jesse White is a distant least prefered option of course. Haven't included Tippett as another poster mentioned, won't be let go given Buddy's issues, or Dixon seeing as he's off to Port Adelaide.

[Go the Biff 3,360]

Just heard from a Carlton supporter mate at work that Casboult is on the way out the door as they're looking at replacing him with Josh Walker who's been mentioned on here a bit, including by me.

Personally I'd be more then happy with Casboult. Can take a mark, crash packs and go into the ruck. Lets just hope he doesn't have a set shot at goal!

Honestly though, any of:

Michael Apeness

Levi Casboult

Ben Griffiths

Josh Walker or

Jesse White

meet the needs of what we need. Although Jesse White is a distant least prefered option of course. Haven't included Tippett as another poster mentioned, won't be let go given Buddy's issues, or Dixon seeing as he's off to Port Adelaide.

Casboult's set shots have improved out of sight in the second half of the season. I think they got Big Sav to work with him to great effect. He has a terrific set of hands

Does tend to go missing though....often for weeks at a time

[Fat Tony 5,072]

Tom McDonald could be one of the best in the game at this role. As good a key defender as he is, I would play him forward/ruck to better utilise his running ability.

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 4,748]

It's an interesting discussion point. Will the dropping of the sub and reduction of interchange increase the instances of playing 2 ruckmen? Jamar may be required for another year after all. Of all positions, ruckmen are the hardest to pick as teenagers. Don't really know the rucking capacity of King as he has played in a Casey team with 2 established AFL experienced ruckmen and hasn't had much opportunity to show the club. Many examples of 2nd string ruckmen blossoming when given the no.1 role at their existing or a new club but very few recruits starring as the 2nd ruck/forward.

I prefer Option A and see what impact the new rules have and/or other other changes in the evolution of the game that occur each year.

Roos said yes to that question - the sub part - in (I think) a recent presser.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Roos has stated previously on Roos' Views that they see Frost as moving into the backline rather then staying in that role he was playing at the start of this year.

Another option, but doubt we'd explore it could be Kurt Tippett?

Sydney trading Tippett out would allow them back into the trade market which they're after. Would also help them out with their salary cap.

As I said, doubt we'd look at it, but is certainly an option to maybe explore?

Tippet, don't like much, but would consider a trade of Watts + 2nd Rnd pick > Swans, for him.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Just heard from a Carlton supporter mate at work that Casboult is on the way out the door as they're looking at replacing him with Josh Walker who's been mentioned on here a bit, including by me.

Personally I'd be more then happy with Casboult. Can take a mark, crash packs and go into the ruck. Lets just hope he doesn't have a set shot at goal!

Honestly though, any of:

Michael Apeness

Levi Casboult

Ben Griffiths

Josh Walker or

Jesse White

meet the needs of what we need. Although Jesse White is a distant least prefered option of course. Haven't included Tippett as another poster mentioned, won't be let go given Buddy's issues, or Dixon seeing as he's off to Port Adelaide.

has that size to be the power pocket/ruck @ 199Cms & 1.3Kgs, bit I have watched him play so no idea from that point.... Guys, is he worth a couple of years as a temp' (kicking), whilst King matures further ?

or should we look at others who have some aggro & size ?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Tom McDonald could be one of the best in the game at this role. As good a key defender as he is, I would play him forward/ruck to better utilise his running ability.

Tom McDonald,,, as long as he can take pack marks around the ground like the young Jeff White once did, & also hurt players in the packs up forward. he has the engine to follow, is he big enough ???

but I would use him forward as CHF leading up anyway, aside from a big Lunk in the pocket.

2017 ???? f follower - Hogan - Petracca

hf Kent - T Mac - Garlett

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Sam Grimley is another option we could look at. Kicked 44 goals in the VFL this year, 199cm, capable of crashing packs.

Is out of contract at seasons end, so could well pick him up as a delisted free agent?

[spirit of norm smith 15,072]

Maybe grab Zac Smith if Suns are interested... Howe & MFC # 44 for Smith & Hall