THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[binman 44,513]

From the Hun (apologies tried but for some reason could not get past the pay wall, so no link):

JAMES Hird’s lawyer says the AFL is “reaping what it sowed” after the Court of Arbitration for Sport on Wednesday announced the Essendon drugs saga would spill in to a fourth year

A couple of things come to mind. Firstly if anyone is reaping anything it is the essenden players - they're the ones who have to wait. And  secondly it shows terrific chutzpa to blame the AFL for delays when Hird launched two appeals that stopped things in their tracks. Twice. Not to mention a better argument would be efc is reaping what it sowed given it decided not to take the cop in the way Cronullla did and instead elect to fight and drag things out. 

 

[daisycutter 29,891]

i'm sure hird's lawyer could convince the gullible that the sky is green, given enough time and money

[Dees2014 2,377]

14 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

The consent forms came about when the players realised that if the mitt hit the pan, they could be in a spot of bother. So they wanted indemnity. "You can't blame us. We didn't do this off our own bat; see here."

But they made two mistakes. One, they had Dank write the forms. I saw somewhere else that he based it on an x-ray consent form from a pathology clinic. Legal wiz, that guy. Two, the forms actually indemnified the club against the players!

I have thought for a long time that the thing that will sink the players, if they are sunk in the end, will be that they put in writing that they were prepared to take these substances.

Surely the point here is under the WADA code it is the players personal responsibility to monitor and consent to what they swallow. This is drummed into every athlete who plays under the WADA rules at regular occasions throughout their careers. They cannot then turn around and say they did not know what they were taking. If that were the case and they still took it, they are very clearly guilty under the WADA  code. The rules are very clear: if the information is not given to them before they take anything no matter what it is, it is the individual players responsibility to refuse to take it. If it subsequently turns out to be an illegal substance, then they cannot then say they didn't know as they are doing now. 

It is of course Richard Young's job to establish that CAS can be "comfortably satisfied" that  it was an illegal substance, but that is a the level of proof at CAS which is much lower than was applied at the AFL Tribunal if past CAS cases are anything to go by.

 

Edited December 23, 2015 by Dees2014

[CBDees 3,167]

Considering the fact that there are only twelve players remaining on their list (plus five on other club lists) out of the original 34 players it will be interesting what emerges as an appropriate penalty! Methinks Essendon has played this well strategically and in effect the outcome from the ruling will have little penalty likely to adversely impact on them  apart from monetary. Be nice to see Hird have to pay back the $Million from his year in France and also this year's combined coaching / termination income!

[daisycutter 29,891]

2 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Considering the fact that there are only twelve players remaining on their list (plus five on other club lists) out of the original 34 players it will be interesting what emerges as an appropriate penalty! Methinks Essendon has played this well strategically and in effect the outcome from the ruling will have little penalty likely to adversely impact on them  apart from monetary. Be nice to see Hird have to pay back the $Million from his year in France and also this year's combined coaching / termination income!

even if essendrug emerge from cas with little penalty it could be argued that eesendrug have already paid a large price

i'm not arguing that as a reason for a light sentence but just stating a reality. i won't bother listing all the "penalties" they have already endured as these should be self evident

[Sir Why You Little 37,297]

Essendrug have got off lightly so far. 

I am hoping for a knockout punch as i have always thought they knowingly pushed the boundries to the point of cheating. 

Hand back the Brownlow Jab...

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Nothing has really changed since day 1.

The lawyers got involved and started bending the truth, or blaming someone else.

It happens in all cases where you have a prosecutor and defence lawyer.

When the truth finally raises its head, the arguments change to procedural problems. All this has now diminished and we now have to rely on the Truth and Fact.

How Novel.

 

By the way Merry Xmas & HNY to all D'Landers.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Barney Rubble
Added my best wishes

[beelzebub 23,390]

26 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

even if essendrug emerge from cas with little penalty it could be argued that eesendrug have already paid a large price

i'm not arguing that as a reason for a light sentence but just stating a reality. i won't bother listing all the "penalties" they have already endured as these should be self evident

You seriously think they've suffered ?

A Mr J Elliott would reply..pig's a... They have paid lip service.

[daisycutter 29,891]

19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You seriously think they've suffered ?

A Mr J Elliott would reply..pig's a... They have paid lip service.

i wasn't talking about truth and justice.

and i do hope they get a reasonably stiff penalty otherwise it just becomes a blueprint for others

but, whatever.... three years of shyte, millions down the gurgler, careers of some ruined, reputations shredded, team going backwards.......just saying 

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

You seriously think they've suffered ?

A Mr J Elliott would reply..pig's a... They have paid lip service.

Funny aside, 'Kouta' was in SEN the other day, they do some nice long form interviews on past players. Anyway they got to the end of Kouta career and he said how hard it was as Carlton had been so successful and that Jack E was the best president to have been at the club. I nearly drove off the road laughing. Cheats and just didn't even register with him. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Cards13

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

21 hours ago, bing181 said:

I think you're arguing that though it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it could still be a warthog.

Have you ever signed a consent form for something that didn't happen?

Absolutely I have. All the time when I signed consent for my children to have emergency medical attention on school camp, for example.

And one that hasn't been used yet but I hope it will, but only when I'm done ...organ donation.

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You seriously think they've suffered ?

A Mr J Elliott would reply..pig's a... They have paid lip service.

If any club and their representatives are able to concoct excuses and lies right up until today, then they are able to apologise for what they have done to

the Football Code and all of its components. If ANY other club apart from Collingwood (and as if this is in any way an excuse) had have done what was conspired,

and continued to be obfuscated on a massive scale, they would have been summarily ejected and replaced as necessary.

 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,556]

8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

i'm sure hird's lawyer could convince the gullible that the sky is green, given enough time and money

Uh oh....

[Cards13 9,117]

Dank is suing everyone, and has won a settlement already from the Hun.

 

http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stephen-dank-to-receive-defamation-payout-20151224-gluw4w.html

 

[biggestred 5,237]

3 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Dank is suing everyone, and has won a settlement already from the Hun.

 

http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stephen-dank-to-receive-defamation-payout-20151224-gluw4w.html

 

Fair enough. The hun has made him look like the bad guy who did all this on his own when it was clearly a group leader by the messiah, uh I mean hirdy.

[faultydet 7,623]

27 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Fair enough. The hun has made him look like the bad guy who did all this on his own when it was clearly a group leader by the messiah, uh I mean hirdy.

Thats right.

 

Victims of their own propaganda. Deserve to get smacked, just a pity it was by the bloke who could have cleared all of this up on day 1, by coming forth with the records of injection.

[Macca 17,113]

1 hour ago, biggestred said:

Fair enough. The hun has made him look like the bad guy who did all this on his own when it was clearly a group leader by the messiah, uh I mean hirdy.

And so many at Essendon bought in too ... they could have said no. They had a choice.

Some did of course but those who went along with it only have themselves to blame ... the decision was in their hands and they said yes. It's my bet that many of those involved knew full well what was going down and were willing participants. I've never bought into this 'innocent victims" rot.

Those at Essendon could have ended all this very early on but by not doing so, they've done much more damage to their club ... even a not guilty verdict won't undo the damage that has been caused.

The 12 that are left at Essendon who are awaiting the decision by the CAS are mostly starting 22 and they went 6 & 16 last season and then sacked their coach ... so if the 12 cop lengthy bans it's hard to see them winning any more than 3-4 games this season. That's apart from various other players wanting "out" (including some of the "12")

Recovering to be a threat again will take quite some time. They are not exactly a destination club either. I see a bleak period ahead for them - at least 5 years in the bottom half of the ladder.

[sue 9,171]

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

And so many at Essendon bought in too ... they could have said no. They had a choice.

Some did of course but those who went along with it only have themselves to blame ... the decision was in their hands and they said yes. It's my bet that many of those involved knew full well what was going down and were willing participants. I've never bought into this 'innocent victims" rot.

Those at Essendon could have ended all this very early on but by not doing so, they've done much more damage to their club ... even a not guilty verdict won't undo the damage that has been caused.

The 12 that are left at Essendon who are awaiting the decision by the CAS are mostly starting 22 and they went 6 & 16 last season and then sacked their coach ... so if the 12 cop lengthy bans it's hard to see them winning any more than 3-4 games this season. That's apart from various other players wanting "out" (including some of the "12")

Recovering to be a threat again will take quite some time. They are not exactly a destination club either. I see a bleak period ahead for them - at least 5 years in the bottom half of the ladder.

You don't think the AFL would find a way to help them recover quickly from an event they could label as 'unique/unprecedented'? 

[Macca 17,113]

33 minutes ago, sue said:

You don't think the AFL would find a way to help them recover quickly from an event they could label as 'unique/unprecedented'? 

That is a distinct possibility but you'd have to wonder how the AFL could help them in the short term if the players cop reasonably lengthy bans ... medium to long term they could get help with free agents and draft picks. Adding 12 journeymen or 12 x B-, C or D graders won't convert to wins in my opinion.

Perhaps I should have started my comment with "All things being equal ... "

I don't rate their list anyway ... they've got a few decent players but a number of their decent players are part of the 12 awaiting judgement.

Also, the court of public opinion is shifting - their own supporters have gone awfully quiet and other supporters of other clubs that I know are slowly shifting their stance with regards to their guilt. It's subtle but it's there.

I'm not sure the players will get a lot of sympathy if the verdict is guilty with a transparent explanation that is damning (which apparently CAS are apt to do with their findings)

But we'll have to wait and see on all of the above ... again, none of us know anything for sure.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Macca

[Redleg 41,933]

On 12/23/2015 at 10:24 AM, daisycutter said:

i'm sure hird's lawyer could convince the gullible that the sky is green, given enough time and money

Far be it from me to comment on other lawyers, but for what he has said and the fact that he keeps commenting on the matter, he comes across as a real  d-ckhead. 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Redleg

[Chris 2,892]

I do like Dank's last statement about the club knowing what was injected into the players. Poses a few questions, is Dank delusional in what he thinks are records? Did the club destroy the records and go down the 'we don't know line'? We did the club just plead guilty to essentially poor record keeping if they have these great records?  None of these are new questions but it just reinforces them in my head and no matter how I answer them it doesn't look good. 

[biggestred 5,237]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Did the club destroy the records and go down the 'we don't know line'? 

Yes.

 

Also if they are guilty and the afl bail them out, 17 other clubs will lose their [censored].

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

Presuming the players are found guilty, does this become the following procedure:-

Club moved against by WADA/CAS?  Other individuals moved against by WADA/CAS?

AFL looked at?

 

[DemonFrog 1,359]

Essendon FC illegal substances saga will be the gift that keeps on giving in 2016.

 

 

[faultydet 7,623]

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

Presuming the players are found guilty, does this become the following procedure:-

Club moved against by WADA/CAS?  Other individuals moved against by WADA/CAS?

AFL looked at?

 

The AFL should definitely be looked at, and their tip off / cover up exposed. Wont happen though.

 

I still haven't read anywhere if essedon itself can be banned from a competition. It's my belief that they should.