THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[biggestred 5,266]

Wouldn't the media be able to see if any witnesses were appearing at this appeal or does "Scotty beam them into it"?

case is being heard "in camera" which means no one is allowed in without permission.

the AFL were apparently granted permission to observe

essendon were denied

amazing how we havent heard a thing really given that essendon werent allowed in (sarcasm)

[Chris 2,892]

Wouldn't the media be able to see if any witnesses were appearing at this appeal or does "Scotty beam them into it"?

Not sure about Scotty but Skype may well do it.

[beelzebub 23,390]

The media is not privy to ANY of this....the poor things

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I think leaked information, if any comes at all, is going to be several days behind.

EG. Instructing solicitor representing a player goes back to chambers, tells colleague what went down on day 1, colleague tells his mate the lawyer from another practice, who happens to be a source cultivated by a journo ...

So what we hear, if anything, will be days behind and probably garbled. And mostly it will be slanted against WADA as the word is they will maintain radio silence until it's all done and dusted.

[dpositive 1,838]

When frozen samples were tested a few months ago, 2 EFT players were found to have 'abnormally high' levels of TB4.

TB4 is a naturally occurring substance in humans.

'Abnormally high' levels suggest external taking/injection.

This is new evidence since the AFL Tribunal finding.

It will be interesting to see how CAS views this new evidence (very important as it appears to be the only difference in ASADA/WADA case):

- Dismiss it: The players will argue samples were available and ASADA/WADA didn't do the tests so evidence not admissible.

- Accept it - then find the 2 but not the other 32, guilty

- Accept it - then find all 34 guilty, but the 2 with 'abnormally' high levels get different penalties.

Depending on which view CAS takes it could result in different verdicts on 'guilt' and different sanctions.

For some time I have been saying we shouldn't assume all players will be equally guilty and equally sanctioned.

It will all come down to CAS's view on the new TB4 tests and their interpretation of 'comfortably satisfied'.

Well it does support a defence of these players and all our others who havent taken anything according to our records have naturally high levels.

[beelzebub 23,390]

I can tell you now one huge difference in the way this will play out.

At the AFL farce the panel needed to be convinced in a manner more akin to their working experience that TB4 was definitely the culprit. They decided it wasn't for them to go joining any dots and the AFL knew this would be the case ergo why they were chosen.

CAS is a different beast. It has shown a willingness to ask those silly questions like. ' to the defendants' if not tb4 then what and what proof do you have given there is definitive evidence there was some intent by the club to obtain TB4 in fact over here we have dot dot dot. How do you explain ?

Again this is not a court that will be familiar (in the main)to the legals representing the 34.

CAS will ask questions when prudent or if it feels its being given the run around.

The burden still rests with WADA.There are obligations that the 34 have though in paving a verd to their satisfaction. If they cant show they a) didn't intend to take tb4 b) actually used something else..with proof then they will have a very hard job undoing WADAs case.

At the AFL circus the defence was to 'la la la la la ..nothing here...la la la la ' and the panel left it at that.

CAS will ask..if not...what ?

[Willmoy1947 4,218]

Just the way it should be, guilty till proven innocent

[faultydet 7,623]

Just the way it should be, guilty till proven innocent

guilty until proven guilty for some of us will.....

[Middymalt 244]

I hope there not guilty they only have 14 players left on there list and we have one tied away for 4 years, there's no benefit to us anymore for them to be found guilty.

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

I hope there not guilty they only have 14 players left on there list and we have one tied away for 4 years, there's no benefit to us anymore for them to be found guilty.

You cannot bend the rules to suit yourself....If Essendrug players are found guilty with long sentences then yes we are a man down.

[beelzebub 23,390]

I hope there not guilty they only have 14 players left on there list and we have one tied away for 4 years, there's no benefit to us anymore for them to be found guilty.

yes...just let the poor diddums off with a nasty warning !!!

In the immortal words of one John Mcenroe ... "You can't be serious"

[biggestred 5,266]

Wada need to send a message.

Big time.

Systematically inject 90% of your players with god knows what and suffer the consequences.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

If it turned out that the players got off lightly, or with no punishment, but the book was thrown at the perpetrators .... isn't that what we the people have been asking for all along?

Although I think the players knew what was up, and deserve their whack, the real bad guys are the ones who devised and put into practice the drug regime, and the ones who really deserve punishment.

I will sleep at night if the players get off PROVIDED the ringleaders are dealt with appropriately. (Also Jobe has to hand back Charlie.)

[biggestred 5,266]

I disagree. At the end of the day footy is 22v22.

If one set of 22 has an advantage because they took whatever - even if due to support staff - then they have cheated.

Not to mention health concerns etc with injecting unknown substances....

[bing181 9,436]

I will sleep at night if the players get off PROVIDED the ringleaders are dealt with appropriately. (Also Jobe has to hand back Charlie.)

On the surface, a common-sense proposal. But:

- it creates an enormous loophole

- the players should have known, or at least done everything they could have to know

- the players almost certainly knew what was going on, enough to know that they were sailing close to the wind

[beelzebub 23,390]

I disagree. At the end of the day footy is 22v22.

If one set of 22 has an advantage because they took whatever - even if due to support staff - then they have cheated.

Not to mention health concerns etc with injecting unknown substances....

wot 'e said !!

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

As I said, I think the players knew, and deserve to go, but if the outcome is that they get off and the masterminds get the book thrown at them, I won't cry into my beer.

[beelzebub 23,390]

No no no no

The gladiators of this sport are the players. No one else fight the fights on the weekends. The advantages or such are conduited through them and they are handsomely rewarded. They have duty of care to themselves.

They can not be excluded or forgiven lightly in this debacle.

They are pursued by WADA because the code holds them responsible.

They are.

[Willmoy1947 4,218]

Couldn't have done it without each other knowing.

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

I disagree. At the end of the day footy is 22v22.

If one set of 22 has an advantage because they took whatever - even if due to support staff - then they have cheated.

Not to mention health concerns etc with injecting unknown substances....

This is why the players have to go

They were visibly larger than their opponents in the early rounds of 2012...

They knew they were getting extra mass.

[jnrmac 20,302]

If it turned out that the players got off lightly, or with no punishment, but the book was thrown at the perpetrators .... isn't that what we the people have been asking for all along?

Although I think the players knew what was up, and deserve their whack, the real bad guys are the ones who devised and put into practice the drug regime, and the ones who really deserve punishment.

I will sleep at night if the players get off PROVIDED the ringleaders are dealt with appropriately. (Also Jobe has to hand back Charlie.)

There is zero sympathy from me for the players. The problem with the outcome you describe above is highlighted if you replace the EFC with the East German athletics programme circa 1970 or the Chinese Swim team circa 1990....

Its tough luck for the athletes but it was tougher luck for Raelene Boyle and other athletes denied gold medals by drug cheats.

You can never have a situation where a player or athlete is not responsible for what they digest (other than the documented limited number of genuine excuses). To not have that rule exposes all teams and athletes to the "it wasn't me, it was my coach" excuse.

That is simply untenable.

The EFC were trying to take advantage and were caught. Pure and simple. Our team was beaten by a team full of drug cheats. If the players didn't ask their doctor, partner player manager etc for clearance or make legitimate enquiry on their own behalf then they deserve to be rubbed out for 2 years. "hey this is a bit suss, what do ya reckon?"

Really it beggars belief that they didn't do this.

[Cards13 9,117]

So let me get this straight, the hearing has been going for 2 days and nothing has come out in the media as yet? Uncanny that the Bombers are not allowed into the hearing.

[rjay 25,345]

So let me get this straight, the hearing has been going for 2 days and nothing has come out in the media as yet? Uncanny that the Bombers are not allowed into the hearing.

...but also amazing the AFL have kept quiet to date.

[beelzebub 23,390]

...but also amazing the AFL have kept quiet to date.

too busy organising contingency plans I suspect

[Cards13 9,117]

...but also amazing the AFL have kept quiet to date.

True. Will there be a C Wilson long piece on Sat about it?