Have The Hawks become flat track bullies that wilt under pressure?

[What 18,810]

Morton at pick 4 is just diabolical. I remember watching his junior highlights at the time, and remembering he looks lie a nice kick of the footy but not much else... I think we all hoped he would be a Robbie FLower type wingman/utility. But he wasnt a competitor and hated contact.

And to make the same mistake 12 months later and take a similar player in Watts at pick 1.. it defies belief.

Thank christ those days are over, but it set us back so far. We will get there and are in a much better position now, but bloody hell we came from a long way back.

[Macca 16,173]

Morton at pick 4 is just diabolical. I remember watching his junior highlights at the time, and remembering he looks lie a nice kick of the footy but not much else... I think we all hoped he would be a Robbie FLower type wingman/utility. But he wasnt a competitor and hated contact.

And to make the same mistake 12 months later and take a similar player in Watts at pick 1.. it defies belief.

Thank christ those days are over, but it set us back so far. We will get there and are in a much better position now, but bloody hell we came from a long way back.

So how do you explain an extreme majority being quite happy with the Morton pick? At the time.

[Qwerty30 196]

Hawks have smashed Geelong, Doggies and North.

Hawks have wilted to lose narrowly to Dons, Port and Giants.

When the pressure comes on they like to assert their dominance, or they struggle.

Reckon if we can put pressure on their ball carriers and then stand up to their inevitable attempts to bully and dominate we can get close.

With their outs and the mental weakness that appears to have entered their game and leadership this year, they are beatable.

As GWS just showed...

Big game.

Short memories on Hawthorn.

We have lost/ melted against Freo, Swans, Adelaide and GWS. Sides with class and grunt we have shown can't match at the moment.

If form is anything to go by, we will get pumped again.

[praha 10,314]

Irrespective of form, injuries and suspension, they are still are 5-6 goal better team simple because we completely break down in the middle going forward and can't match their goal kicking capabilities.

Unless Jones starts hitting our forwards on the chest, unless Vince wins more clearances, unless our rebounds off 50 are more effective a sweep across the ground, unless Dawes magically learns how to take a contested mark, it'll be another loss.

Three tough round are almost at an end. Beatable, but unlikely. We need to complete.

[Macca 16,173]

Morton at pick 4 is just diabolical. I remember watching his junior highlights at the time, and remembering he looks lie a nice kick of the footy but not much else... I think we all hoped he would be a Robbie FLower type wingman/utility. But he wasnt a competitor and hated contact.

Just for you h_h ...

The following thread is about Cale Morton towards the end of his first year - absolutely no thoughts about delisting him from anyone ... quite the contrary - most were extremely enamored by his footy ...

Cale Morton - Rising Star Nomination

Some notable quotes ...

He's getting a tonne of the ball now and is looking really dangerous. My mouth's watering.

He's an exciting prospect. Knows the right spots to run to, seems to have great vision & every now and then does something that just oozes class.

He is only 18 and finally we have some development coaches that can iron these creases out. I eagerly await the next couple of seasons. I think he will turn out a great player.

Cale Morton will be a player and i'm happy with that.

He has the smarts, the athleticism, and geniune footy instinct.. plus he is 6'4 and could develop into anything!

Well ahead of schedule, looking great!

Not only has the kid got skill (just needs bulking up) he speaks and conducts himself very well.

I reckon almost certainly a future captain.

[Frosty Demon 153]

Just for you h_h ...

The following thread is about Cale Morton towards the end of his first year - absolutely no thoughts about delisting him from anyone ... quite the contrary - most were extremely enamored by his footy ...

Cale Morton - Rising Star Nomination

Some notable quotes ...

When he fled from Brendan Lade that day I would have never played him again.

Still can't believe Worsfold took him

[What 18,810]

Just for you h_h ...

The following thread is about Cale Morton towards the end of his first year - absolutely no thoughts about delisting him from anyone ... quite the contrary - most were extremely enamored by his footy ...

Cale Morton - Rising Star Nomination

Some notable quotes ...

Notice that not one of them praised or mentioned his competitiveness or toughness?

They were all comments by biased supporters just being excited about a new draftee (which is fine of course and every teams supporters do it), but the reality was right in front of us the whole time.

At least now when we get excited about Salem, Viney, Hogan, Kent, Brayshaw etc etc we do it with the knowledge that they have already shown a desire to compete and a hunger for the contest at AFL level. Doesn't guarantee anything of course, but at least our excitement is based on something genuine.

Edited May 11, 2015 by hogans_heroes

[Macca 16,173]

When he fled from Brendan Lade that day I would have never played him again.

Still can't believe Worsfold took him

That was way later FD (IIRC)

The point I'm trying to drive home is that we can't change what happened with our drafting and looking back and trying to reconcile things using hindsight is not only wrong, it's pointless.

Notice that not one of them praised or mentioned his competitive instinct or toughness?

They were all comments by biased supporters just being excited about a new draftee, when the reality was right in front of us the whole time.

At least now when we get excited about Salem, Viney, Hogan, Kent, Brayshaw etc etc we do it with the knowledge that they have already shown a desire to compete and a hunger for the contest at AFL level. Doesn't guarantee anything of course, but at least our excitement is based on something genuine.

It's an 8 page thread and you read it in less than 10 minutes?

Go back and have another try.

[What 18,810]

It's an 8 page thread and you read it in less than 10 minutes?

Go back and have another try.

Was just referring to the quotes you posted, didn't read the thread.

Anyway my post is spot on.

[Deespicable 2,563]

Notice that not one of them praised or mentioned his competitiveness or toughness?

They were all comments by biased supporters just being excited about a new draftee (which is fine of course and every teams supporters do it), but the reality was right in front of us the whole time.

At least now when we get excited about Salem, Viney, Hogan, Kent, Brayshaw etc etc we do it with the knowledge that they have already shown a desire to compete and a hunger for the contest at AFL level. Doesn't guarantee anything of course, but at least our excitement is based on something genuine.

And the good thing is that even though Petracca got injured, our luck seems to have turned.

Poor old Pies - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-11/hamstring-surgery-for-unlucky-magpie-nathan-freeman- they took Scharenberg (6) and Freeman (10) and are a long way off getting a game out of them.

Kelly (2) got dropped by GWS and even though we can look back and rue missing our on a once in a generation player in Bontempelli, we got Tyson (2) and Salem (9) in that deal.

Then this year, the Saints have their very own Jack Watts in Paddy McCartin.

It's amazing that since Taylor took over for the 2013 draft, we seem to be getting players who have the right tools to succeed in the modern game.

But the biggest irony of the whole thing is that the guy who kept getting it wrong for us - Barry Prenderghastly - actually succeeded with one of his final throwaway picks before being sent packing. His name - Tom McDonald.

[Macca 16,173]

Was just referring to the quotes you posted, didn't read the thread.

Anyway my post is spot on.

In that thread, nearly every poster had something positive to say about Morton and there were 181 posts ... also, many of those posts were from quite a number of people here who know their footy.

That thread highlights the ups and downs we have here with draftees. From initially being really pleased to have them on board to the harsh criticism and/or heavy praise (often all that within the space of 2 years)

Hindsight highlights the mistakes that are made with drafting but the recruiters do not have that benefit of hindsight ... they have to make decisions on the spot which are final.

All after judging these kids at under 18 level (which is a long way away from the cauldron of AFL footy)

.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Macca

[Pipefitter 2,027]

Melbourne paying $26 for 40+ - get on it.

[Frosty Demon 153]

I hate Hawthorn

[Scipio 5,868]

Just for you h_h ...

The following thread is about Cale Morton towards the end of his first year - absolutely no thoughts about delisting him from anyone ... quite the contrary - most were extremely enamored by his footy ...

Cale Morton - Rising Star Nomination

Some notable quotes ...

Always agonising looking back on some of those threads, and clearly the majority got it wrong on Morton.

Side note - Hannabal, what a [censored].

[Macca 16,173]

Always agonising looking back on some of those threads, and clearly the majority got it wrong on Morton.

Side note - Hannabal, what a [censored].

I wasn't here at the time but I would have almost certainly joined the ranks with the praise for Morton if I was here ... however, I've since learned to not make too many big statements about young players - I got it horribly wrong with Tapscott The old threads can often be very entertaining.

I reckon we're pretty safe with Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem & Viney though. The other young blokes have it all in front of them (and there's a few there)

.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Macca

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I wasn't here at the time but I would have almost certainly joined the ranks with the praise for Morton if I was here ... however, I've since learned to not make too many big statements about young players - I got it horribly wrong with Tapscott The old threads can often be very entertaining.

I reckon we're pretty safe with Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem & Viney though. The other young blokes have it all in front of them (and there's a few there)

.

Back in the day there were some recruiters who were saying that they would have had Morton as a possible #1 pick.

However he was the wrong pick for our club at the time. He may have become a better player elsewhere but at the time we needed someone who displayed the attributes Morton did not. It's just a shame we didn't know that until years later when it was too late.

[Macca 16,173]

Back in the day there were some recruiters who were saying that they would have had Morton as a possible #1 pick.

However he was the wrong pick for our club at the time. He may have become a better player elsewhere but at the time we needed someone who displayed the attributes Morton did not. It's just a shame we didn't know that until years later when it was too late.

Hindsight has taught us that footy took a dramatic turn around '04 - '06. But again, I'm saying that now. Not many were saying it back then even though it was staring us in the face.

I reckon a number of us thought that flooding, the forward press, 2-way running and a heavy emphasis on defence were things that most footballers could adjust to - the truth is, we had any number of players on our list back then who not only weren't being taught how to play the modern brand, many weren't capable of doing so.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Hindsight has taught us that footy took a dramatic turn around '04 - '06. But again, I'm saying that now. Not many were saying it back then even though it was staring us in the face.

I reckon a number of us thought that flooding, the forward press, 2-way running and a heavy emphasis on defence were things that most footballers could adjust to - the truth is, we had any number of players on our list back then who not only weren't being taught how to play the modern brand, many weren't capable of doing so.

Very true.

I firmly believe that Roos is setting us up for whatever the future holds. It sounds silly but over the course of the next year and a half he will stick to ingraining the very basics into the fabric of our club - work ethic, defensive pressure, a good culture etc. so when Goodwin takes over he is ready to take us to the next level with wherever the game is heading and the club will be ready for it this time around.

We can be quick to get angry at how we are playing but Roos is setting us up for the LONG term. Not the short term. When he hands the coaching reins over to Goodwin he will have us in a good spot for taking that next step. It means we need to be a little more patient but I believe the rewards will certainly be there down the track.

[Winners at last 4,795]

I'm sure the Hawks will be terrified.

[Macca 16,173]

Very true.

I firmly believe that Roos is setting us up for whatever the future holds. It sounds silly but over the course of the next year and a half he will stick to ingraining the very basics into the fabric of our club - work ethic, defensive pressure, a good culture etc. so when Goodwin takes over he is ready to take us to the next level with wherever the game is heading and the club will be ready for it this time around.

We can be quick to get angry at how we are playing but Roos is setting us up for the LONG term. Not the short term. When he hands the coaching reins over to Goodwin he will have us in a good spot for taking that next step. It means we need to be a little more patient but I believe the rewards will certainly be there down the track.

Yep, we've a long way to go but we've seen some positive signs in all 6 games thus far (albeit in patches in some games)

I'm hopeful that by the end of next season we'll have a near full list who've at least got the basics of modern footy down pat (save for the rookies and the more recent draftees at that time)

Hopefully we'll have close to 30 AFL ready players on our list by then (we need to add 3-4 AFL ready players to the list in each of the next 2 off-seasons)

What we really need to make a leap up the ladder is some ready-to-go A grade talent. That may come from within and/or via free agency. Having 5 or 6 genuine top players in the side would make so much difference.

[Scipio 5,868]

I'm sure the Hawks will be terrified.

Well hopefully at least one Hawk will be... Schoenmakers or Gibson, I expect.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

In that thread, nearly every poster had something positive to say about Morton and there were 181 posts ... also, many of those posts were from quite a number of people here who know their footy.

That thread highlights the ups and downs we have here with draftees. From initially being really pleased to have them on board to the harsh criticism and/or heavy praise (often all that within the space of 2 years)

Hindsight highlights the mistakes that are made with drafting but the recruiters do not have that benefit of hindsight ... they have to make decisions on the spot which are final.

All after judging these kids at under 18 level (which is a long way away from the cauldron of AFL footy)

.

I don't see Morton as a massive failure like Lucas Cook, I see him as a guy who was a victim of an ideological change at the club and was unable to adjust. He was able to run, rack up possessions and kick goals in our old system but wasn't versatile enough to play different roles as the club looked at different approaches to win games (generally more defensive minded). Not sure if it says more about our development or Cale himself because he definitely looked like a star for a while, just didn't have what it took, mentally or physically to avoid being a victim of the mass exodus in those years

[old dee 22,952]

I hate Hawthorn

Why they are every thing the MFC should be.

[Macca 16,173]

I don't see Morton as a massive failure like Lucas Cook, I see him as a guy who was a victim of an ideological change at the club and was unable to adjust. He was able to run, rack up possessions and kick goals in our old system but wasn't versatile enough to play different roles as the club looked at different approaches to win games (generally more defensive minded). Not sure if it says more about our development or Cale himself because he definitely looked like a star for a while, just didn't have what it took, mentally or physically to avoid being a victim of the mass exodus in those years

My post was never intending to single Morton out anyway ... I used him as an example of how we initially view draftees - which is nearly always with excitement and anticipation.

Later on a number of people here think they can use hindsight to indicate that the thinking at the time was far different. Outside of the internet, these types have selective memory but here on this site, we only have to pull out the old threads to see what people were thinking at the time.

Morton was just one of a long long list of "recruits" that never made it - I don't lose any sleep over such occurrences and nor should anyone else. What's done is done and those who want to bleat on about such things should save their breath.

.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Macca

[Pennant St Dee 11,367]

They are going to come out and try and make a statement, we need to be switched on from the get go and can't afford them to get their tails up early. We also can't afford to think if we have held them for a quarter the job is done they have the ability to score quickly and kill our chances in 10 minutes.

We need to be hard across the board in this game their main enforcers setting the tone aren't there but their quality A grade footballers are, in it at 3/4 time and the doubts will start rising in their minds

Big statement game for our club coming this week, we need to make a stand, not stupidly by targetting the man but be hard at the contest and make them earn every possession