THE MATCH: BACK AND FORWARD

[mo64 5,626]

Somewhat fortuitously I only got to see the first half (streamed, not live). All I could think was what it must have been like to be a supporter of pretty much any other club playing Melbourne in the Neeld era. It's amazing how good you can look when under minimal pressure.

Spot on. It's easy to make excuses like "we took our foot off the pedal", but that's contrary to what Cross said was discussed at half time. I took more positives out of our loss to Freo.

I'm still concerned about where our goals will come from. So many of the 1st half goals were under no pressure. Can't recall any of them coming from winning a 1 on 1 contest, but at least we had some crumbers. Happy if we get 35 goals out of Hogan, but I'm worried that he'll use himself as a bettering ram to make a contest, because we don't have any other marking options in the forward line. Dawes, Pedo and Gawn have shown nothing, and Fitzpatrick isn't up to it. Howe needs to play up forward as a 3rd tall, and we'll have a huge reliance on Garlett, JKH and Kent for our goals.

Our backmen were given a free ride in the 1st half. No forward pressure by the Dogs. Let's see how they stand up in round 1.

Still a huge reliance on Jones and Tyson in the midfield. Love Viney's attack on the ball, but needs to be cleaner when he gets it. Newton is good in traffic and has good disposal. I believe that he and Michie are playing for the same role because they are both one paced, and Newton is well ahead at this stage. Criticism of Toumpas was harsh. Really liked his game, and I don't mind seeing a player get caught if they're taking the game on. M. Jones, Bail and McKenzie really don't offer anything, and unfortunately Jones and Bail will be in our round 1 team.

Jamar is are only true ruckman. Would prefer to see Pedo play as a 2nd ruck, because at least he can be used as a link player. Get the feeling that Frost might be used as a forward/2nd ruck.

[old dee 23,557]

I am not a fan of Viney ATM especially in the modern style game.

Yes he is hard as a brick wall, but he is also small, not quick, has ordinary disposal and can't kick far or even accurately. His handballs to the grass annoy me.

He has many limitations I believe. That is not to say he can't be a valuable member of the team, but I just see players like Petracca, Brayshaw, Salem, Toumpas, Newton, Stretch, Neale Bullen, Vandenberg, Kent, JKH etc going past him.

If they have not already Redleg

[rpfc 28,084]

Aside from the 2nd quarter we entered the forward line 17 times from 250 touches for 4 goals.

I'm not backward in coming forward but the Dees are - and it is a problem...

[mo64 5,626]

I am not a fan of Viney ATM especially in the modern style game.

Yes he is hard as a brick wall, but he is also small, not quick, has ordinary disposal and can't kick far or even accurately. His handballs to the grass annoy me.

He has many limitations I believe. That is not to say he can't be a valuable member of the team, but I just see players like Petracca, Brayshaw, Salem, Toumpas, Newton, Stretch, Neale Bullen, Vandenberg, Kent, JKH etc going past him.

Has a familiar ring to it. Just like Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott and Blease would surpass Nathan Jones.

Edited March 16, 2015 by mo64

[hemingway 7,615]

Daniel Cross' words summed up beautifully why that performance has me so concerned:

"We were really happy coming into half-time with what we produced. We really wanted to put the foot on the throat and learn to finish off a side, but it was just disappointing the second half,” he said.

The fact that they wanted to learn to finish a side off and failed so miserably in doing so is my first concern.

The fact we almost managed to lose the unloseable after being up by 52 points and having a five goal breeze in the fourth, was a second concern.

The fact that the opposition that we wanted to learn to "finish off" was a VFL grade side full of draftees, is my biggest concern.

Make no mistake, what we dished up at Ballarat was not AFL standard, it was the typical Melbourne chocolates to boiled lollies, inconsistent standard that has long been a feature ever since the Reverend was coach.

I'm so sick of always being a yo-yo club, up one quarter down the next.

Can't we just become ruthless for once, I anxiously await that day in hope.

Inconsistency and lack of ruthlessness tells us that we have a developing side. A developing side also means an unsettled side. Inconsistency will remain whilst we have an unsettled side. When we have a settled side it will mean that we have the talent, experience and confidence to consistently win matches. All top sides have a critical mass of stars or match winners. There is still a big gap between our best players and our worst players. As we all know, we have few if any star players, Nate Jones aside, and we still have too many fringe players who would not get a game with a top side. Currently, the team does not have the evenness in talent, capability and experience. This year will be a work in progress. However, the acquisition of players like Lumumba and Garlett, together with our young talent gives me more optimism than I have had for a long time. But it will be a bumpy ride in 2015.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Slightly off topic... what was with that barneymfc guy quoting and replying to himself all game?

[Bossdog 2,002]

Gee I love Demonland

From what I have read this morning......Vander is a certainty for round 1 even though he is still a rookie and has played one half of footy in a practise match in March.

Viney has been passed by all and sundry after his first game back in a practise match in March....Apparently his bull at a gate method does not now suit modern footy

Can't wait for the next instalments after the Ess game

Maybe Bail will be the next B&F winner after he stars next game or (place name of a maligned player here) stars.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,903]

Toumpas and Salem were both very good on Saturday, Toumpas started showing what he will be capable of with some more experience, his foot skills and footy intelligence will be a huge asset.

Hogans attack on the footy was great to see as well and the new guys (Lumumba, Garlett, Frost and Newton) will be massive additions to the team.

Dawes is one who I'm not sure on, Pedersen may actually be a better option unless he can improve his impact on the game.

[Ungarie boy 233]

Damned if you do and Damned if you don't.

For everyone who is lambasting the second half just consider "what if we went for the kill, players maintained/lifted their intensity" we the fans cheer home a 100 point flogging, but witness Jones carried off with a knee, Garlett out with a hamstring and Hogan limping. Then the chorus would have been 'it was only a practice match, why didn't we ease off"!!!

Also note that though they had a "VFL side" so could ours have been with little likely impact on our performance for if we included suposed VFL players (Brayshaw, Stretch, Pederson, Riley, etc) for (Watts, McKenzie, Dawes, Newton, etc) would the result been much difference. Bulldogs inexperience is a reflection of losing Griffin, Liberatore, Cooney, Higgins - rested players Murphy (old) Crameri (over rated) Boyd (not proven) would not have made a huge differnce.

[old dee 23,557]

Gee I love Demonland

From what I have read this morning......Vander is a certainty for round 1 even though he is still a rookie and has played one half of footy in a practise match in March.

Viney has been passed by all and sundry after his first game back in a practise match in March....Apparently his bull at a gate method does not now suit modern footy

Can't wait for the next instalments after the Ess game

Maybe Bail will be the next B&F winner after he stars next game or (place name of a maligned player here) stars.

Some things have a faint chance of success Bossdog but I thing you are a bridge too far on that one.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,903]

Aside from the 2nd quarter we entered the forward line 17 times from 250 touches for 4 goals.

I'm not backward in coming forward but the Dees are - and it is a problem...

The Dogs did seem to have an ultra flood on though which would have impacted our ability to hit up targets. Would it be better if we just blazed away bombing up to outnumbered forwards and getting killed on the rebound? When we got the ball on a break or switched play across half back we seemed to move the ball better than I've seen us do for years.

It's definitely something we need to work on but it's better to maintain possession than turn the ball over.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Has a familiar ring to it. Just like Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott and Blease would surpass Nathan Jones.

I don't like comparing players, but there are similarities between their early careers.

So many times Jones would get his hands on the footy and try to break clear and get claimed, or attempt an attacking kick that wasn't on. He kept trying to do it and got better. Now he gets clear most times, and he hits targets and picks good options most times.

Both strong bodies, both hard nuts, both durable, both driven.

The last thing I want to see Jack Viney doing is stop trying to bust through contests with the footy for fear of making a mistake.

Viney will be good.

[rpfc 28,084]

The Dogs did seem to have an ultra flood on though which would have impacted our ability to hit up targets. Would it be better if we just blazed away bombing up to outnumbered forwards and getting killed on the rebound? When we got the ball on a break or switched play across half back we seemed to move the ball better than I've seen us do for years.

It's definitely something we need to work on but it's better to maintain possession than turn the ball over.

Ok, there is a happy medium between keep possession and bombing it to no-one. We were getting it into the fwd 50 every 7 touches in the second quarter. For the other three quarters we were running at once every 14 touches...

I applaud the desire to keep the footy, but risks lead to goals and come from confidence, and confidence is nurtured by success. We won't be a consistent footy team until we take risks and play direct footy.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,903]

Ok, there is a happy medium between keep possession and bombing it to no-one. We were getting it into the fwd 50 every 7 touches in the second quarter. For the other three quarters we were running at once every 14 touches...

I applaud the desire to keep the footy, but risks lead to goals and come from confidence, and confidence is nurtured by success. We won't be a consistent footy team until we take risks and play direct footy.

I agree and I think part of it is knowing when to pull the trigger. If you hesitate in the modern game the chance is gone and before you know you've got 30 players sitting in front of you.

The second quarter we moved the ball quickly from half back which meant our forwards had room to work. On other occasions though we were too slow moving forward (either due to skills or decision making) which meant we'd stagnate at half forward and kick around the flanks. The other factor is that we use a lot of quick handballs out of packs trying to get a player free which quickly racks up the stats without having really got anywhere. The fact the Dogs had more inside 50's despite our clear dominance in play and possessions is a worry - had we been able to take our opportunities early (and really we should have had around 15 goals on the board instead of 9) they would never have had an opportunity to get back in the game.

I think it will come though with experience, with the team being better drilled, players getting the game plan/positioning down until it's second nature and some of our NQR's being replaced by better skilled guys like Vince, Petracca, Stretch etc

[Moonshadow 17,579]

Daniel Cross' words summed up beautifully why that performance has me so concerned:

"We were really happy coming into half-time with what we produced. We really wanted to put the foot on the throat and learn to finish off a side, but it was just disappointing the second half,” he said.

The fact that they wanted to learn to finish a side off and failed so miserably in doing so is my first concern.

The fact we almost managed to lose the unloseable after being up by 52 points and having a five goal breeze in the fourth, was a second concern.

The fact that the opposition that we wanted to learn to "finish off" was a VFL grade side full of draftees, is my biggest concern.

Make no mistake, what we dished up at Ballarat was not AFL standard, it was the typical Melbourne chocolates to boiled lollies, inconsistent standard that has long been a feature ever since the Reverend was coach.

I'm so sick of always being a yo-yo club, up one quarter down the next.

Can't we just become ruthless for once, I anxiously await that day in hope.

Thoroughly agree with your passion and frustration leucopogon, but every player wants to be ruthless and crush the opposition, regardless of the importance of the game. It's part of Crossy's competitive nature, and should be for his teammates.

While still wanting the win to build confidence, IMO Roos would approach the second half more as an opportunity to tweak and experiment to see what they can do. For example, jones saw little of the second half and someone on here commented they saw Dunn at a centre bounce at one point. Not that the cue was in the rack (god I detest that saying) as such, just that the importance of the match was not so much the scoreline.

[P-man 13,366]

Thoroughly agree with your passion and frustration leucopogon, but every player wants to be ruthless and crush the opposition, regardless of the importance of the game. It's part of Crossy's competitive nature, and should be for his teammates.

While still wanting the win to build confidence, IMO Roos would approach the second half more as an opportunity to tweak and experiment to see what they can do. For example, jones saw little of the second half and someone on here commented they saw Dunn at a centre bounce at one point. Not that the cue was in the rack (god I detest that saying) as such, just that the importance of the match was not so much the scoreline.

I really hope you're correct. I can't understand how a team in our position has the luxury of taking the foot off, pre-season or not, but perhaps this is the Roos philosophy coming to the fore. Again, I just hope you're right, cause the second half was utterly hopeless to the extent that it made me think some of the ball movement in the first was simply attributed to their zone defence and minimal/non-existent pressure.

It's becoming apparent how much responsibility is on Hogan's shoulders. Without him we will be looking pretty toothless in terms of tall marking targets. Pedo pulls out a great game every now and then but his worst is awful. Dawes is Dawes. I was hoping to see Gawn become another genuine option but no glimpses as yet. Fitzy coming on would be a huge boost. Fingers crossed he can find some form.

That [censored] playing for Geelong would've been very handy.

[P-man 13,366]

Gee I love DemonlandFrom what I have read this morning......Vander is a certainty for round 1 even though he is still a rookie and has played one half of footy in a practise match in March.Viney has been passed by all and sundry after his first game back in a practise match in March....Apparently his bull at a gate method does not now suit modern footyCan't wait for the next instalments after the Ess gameMaybe Bail will be the next B&F winner after he stars next game or (place name of a maligned player here) stars.

Way to purposely misconstrue.

I haven't noticed many posts saying Vanders is a Round 1 "certainty". He is in the mix from what we've seen. I'd say it's unlikely he'll get named before having a run in the twos, but he's showed a lot of early promise and people are rightly excited about what he could bring.

RL PREDICTED Viney to be passed, not that he already had been passed. I don't agree with the sentiment, but at least quote him correctly if you're gonna get all sarcastic "I love Demonland".

[Moonshadow 17,579]

I really hope you're correct. I can't understand how a team in our position has the luxury of taking the foot off, pre-season or not, but perhaps this is the Roos philosophy coming to the fore. Again, I just hope you're right, cause the second half was utterly hopeless to the extent that it made me think some of the ball movement in the first was simply attributed to their zone defence and minimal/non-existent pressure.

It's becoming apparent how much responsibility is on Hogan's shoulders. Without him we will be looking pretty toothless in terms of tall marking targets. Pedo pulls out a great game every now and then but his worst is awful. Dawes is Dawes. I was hoping to see Gawn become another genuine option but no glimpses as yet. Fitzy coming on would be a huge boost. Fingers crossed he can find some form.

That [censored] playing for Geelong would've been very handy.

Absolutely P-man, Hogan should be learning from a very high quality KPF like Clark. Watching Hoges crash a few packs gets me both excited and scared at the same time. He needs support.

Dawes tries hard but is not of that ilk. It would be great if one of Gawn, Fitzy or Pedo could rise to become a force, but that is unlikely. I'm a fan of Pedo and Fitzy, but am aware of their limitations.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

had to DL and check the centre bounces for the 2nd half

lumumba jones tyson
lumumba jones newton
lumumba jones tyson
cross jones tyson
cross jones viney

michie jones tyson
michie jones viney
newton viney tyson
michie viney tyson
lumumba newton michie
lumumba viney michie
lumumba garlett viney

jones 7
tyson 6
lumumba 6
viney 6
michie 5
newton 3
cross 2
garlett 1

interpret as you will

[Bossdog 2,002]

Way to purposely misconstrue.

I haven't noticed many posts saying Vanders is a Round 1 "certainty". He is in the mix from what we've seen. I'd say it's unlikely he'll get named before having a run in the twos, but he's showed a lot of early promise and people are rightly excited about what he could bring.

RL PREDICTED Viney to be passed, not that he already had been passed. I don't agree with the sentiment, but at least quote him correctly if you're gonna get all sarcastic "I love Demonland".

Not trying to be sarcastic P-man.....I do love Demonland

My point was, can we at least see a couple of games in the real season before we pass judgement on players

I like what I see with Vanders but have only seen one half of a practise match......Much to early to tell....Hope he does well.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Not much love for Gawn in 2015. Thought his centre square ruck work was pretty bloody good against Minson.

[Nasher 33,607]

had to DL and check the centre bounces for the 2nd half

lumumba jones tyson

lumumba jones newton

lumumba jones tyson

cross jones tyson

cross jones viney

michie jones tyson

michie jones viney

newton viney tyson

michie viney tyson

lumumba newton michie

lumumba viney michie

lumumba garlett viney

jones 7

tyson 6

lumumba 6

viney 6

michie 5

newton 3

cross 2

garlett 1

interpret as you will

I hereby appoint you to do this analysis of every quarter, every week. Ta.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I hereby appoint you to do this analysis of every quarter, every week. Ta.

is that some sort of insult

[Nasher 33,607]

is that some sort of insult

Not at all. I thought it was interesting and it's something that is hard to get a good picture of, but jokingly suggested you should do it all the time in recognition that it must have been a chore to produce.

[Moonshadow 17,579]

Bordering on off topic now.....