Elsternwick Park - anyone heard about this?

[DeeSpencer 26,488]

some nice high ground at wattle park biffo

already got a picture pretty ground and we could kick the short order cooks out of the chalet

nice little boutique golf course next door for the lads to wind down after training

plenty of surrounding grounds for a commando style training setup too

I did a footy preseason there including some cross training around the area. And we had presentation night in the Chalet.

So I say the chalet stays and the oval goes!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

I did a footy preseason there including some cross training around the area. And we had presentation night in the Chalet.

So I say the chalet stays and the oval goes!

Is that a prelude to cross dressing? New fangled but it makes sense. Ease into things as it were.

[Redleg 42,048]

what about the old prahran vfl ground? very accessible to many

presume it's currently council owned?

mfc also have a strong connection

social club could be incorporated like richmond

just a thought (even if not well thought through)

Yes that has trains, trams and buses nearby as well. Ground size could be a problem though as they like to train on AFL size where possible.

Also not sure of infrastructure there and if there is the room needed to build the facilities they would require.

[rjay 25,348]

some nice high ground at wattle park biffo

already got a picture pretty ground and we could kick the short order cooks out of the chalet

nice little boutique golf course next door for the lads to wind down after training

plenty of surrounding grounds for a commando style training setup too

Suits me, I still run there most days...

Remember doing pre season runs there in the good old days when the Hawks did some of their commando training at Wattle Park on the hills. Scott and Matthews amongst the players. Certainly didn't hurt them.

A few years later the sight of Sammy Kekovic at Wattle Park with his gut hanging over his budgies in a pair of thongs did little to inspire the Camberwell footy club when he was coach.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Suits me, I still run there most days...

Remember doing pre season runs there in the good old days when the Hawks did some of their commando training at Wattle Park on the hills. Scott and Matthews amongst the players. Certainly didn't hurt them.

A few years later the sight of Sammy Kekovic at Wattle Park with his gut hanging over his budgies in a pair of thongs did little to inspire the Camberwell footy club when he was coach.

I played in my youth at Surrey Hills nearby and I remember a few training session where we ran the entire 9 holes of the 'Royal Wattle' with a 9 iron and a couple of golf balls on the go. Don't think the curator appreciated us freeloaders tearing up his course.

[rjay 25,348]

I played in my youth at Surrey Hills nearby and I remember a few training session where we ran the entire 9 holes of the 'Royal Wattle' with a 9 iron and a couple of golf balls on the go. Don't think the curator appreciated us freeloaders tearing up his course.

I was a Box Hill Pioneers boy 'Moonshadow', a couple of nights a week at Wattle Park was our regular preseason training routine back in the 70's. As I posted earlier, Hawthorn used to do one night a week at the park using the bush side hill mainly. I always remember how solid Matthews was through the legs, even 2 of mine wouldn't have made one of his.

We used to run the park and come back up to the oval up the long 2nd tee hill. Only remember one of the boys being hit by a ball but had to use our evasive skills many a time.

It's a pity they've fenced the course now but sometimes for old times sake I will jump over and take on the 2nd.

[monoccular 17,698]

AAMI isn't permanent. We lease it and I don't know at what cost and for how long.

We need somewhere with a long term lease with facilities locked in.

then surely we should start negotiating (may have already ) for a long term lease there at Olympic Park / AAMI, if that is the best place.

[Redleg 42,048]

then surely we should start negotiating (may have already ) for a long term lease there at Olympic Park / AAMI, if that is the best place.

Would have thought if that was our best option, Jackson would be all over it and Elsternwick would not be discussed, unless it is a rental ploy.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Would have thought if that was our best option, Jackson would be all over it and Elsternwick would not be discussed, unless it is a rental ploy.

Or maybe just a media beat up during a slow week for footy news...

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

The site needs a lot of work.

I know that the VAFA sought a joint venture (money) with the City of Bayside to improve basic facilities like change rooms for the umpires.

A similar arrangement (VFL, City of Bayside, SFC, State Gov?) resulted in a redevelopment of the Trevor Barker reserve club rooms facility at Sandy FC.

The kind of facilities that an AFL club would want would require millions. I cant see a Labor state government coming up with that kind of money as its not in a marginal or heartland seat (I think its in the seat of Brighton - Liberal Louise Asher).

The ground itself although big was (is) in serious need of water and possibly resurfacing.

On the plus side I thought the demographic centre of the demon supporter base was somewhere like Bentleigh - not far away.

Certainly if you get the Sandy line train to the G there are plenty of us going to games.

Finally is the convenience of the players any consideration?

These guys are on big pay packets and they live in ritzy suburbs (dont they?). No offense to denizens of Casey but maybe not there - possibly inner suburbs.

Maybe the players dont like the commute to Casey - it certainly deters me from going to scorp games.

[Redleg 42,048]

The site needs a lot of work.

I know that the VAFA sought a joint venture (money) with the City of Bayside to improve basic facilities like change rooms for the umpires.

A similar arrangement (VFL, City of Bayside, SFC, State Gov?) resulted in a redevelopment of the Trevor Barker reserve club rooms facility at Sandy FC.

The kind of facilities that an AFL club would want would require millions. I cant see a Labor state government coming up with that kind of money as its not in a marginal or heartland seat (I think its in the seat of Brighton - Liberal Louise Asher).

The ground itself although big was (is) in serious need of water and possibly resurfacing.

On the plus side I thought the demographic centre of the demon supporter base was somewhere like Bentleigh - not far away.

Certainly if you get the Sandy line train to the G there are plenty of us going to games.

Finally is the convenience of the players any consideration?

These guys are on big pay packets and they live in ritzy suburbs (dont they?). No offense to denizens of Casey but maybe not there - possibly inner suburbs.

Maybe the players dont like the commute to Casey - it certainly deters me from going to scorp games.

I must admit that while I went often to Sandy, Casey has really put me off.

It is quite far to travel, is cold and windy and has no atmosphere, even for VFL games.

I don't think the Casey experiment has improved our membership either.

If we were to have a stand alone VFL team, which seems to be the way most clubs are heading, then playing somewhere like Elsternwick/Prahran, with new facilities and reasonable ground control could have many advantages, not least of all, better attendances at VFL games.

[rjay 25,348]

I must admit that while I went often to Sandy, Casey has really put me off.

It is quite far to travel, is cold and windy and has no atmosphere, even for VFL games.

I don't think the Casey experiment has improved our membership either.

If we were to have a stand alone VFL team, which seems to be the way most clubs are heading, then playing somewhere like Elsternwick/Prahran, with new facilities and reasonable ground control could have many advantages, not least of all, better attendances at VFL games.

Maybe Camberwell oval is worth a look at.

[hoopla 418]

I must admit that while I went often to Sandy, Casey has really put me off.

It is quite far to travel, is cold and windy and has no atmosphere, even for VFL games.

I don't think the Casey experiment has improved our membership either.

If we were to have a stand alone VFL team, which seems to be the way most clubs are heading, then playing somewhere like Elsternwick/Prahran, with new facilities and reasonable ground control could have many advantages, not least of all, better attendances at VFL games.

In the initial negotiations with Casey we committed to a 20 year arrangement. I'm not sure whether the commitment was purely a commitment to use the property ( for summer training etc) or a commitment to support the Casey Scorpions. If it is the latter I can live with it as long as we control all on-field decisions. I would like to re-badge the team the "Casey Demons" to make it very clear that we intend to stay.

There is significant development taking place in the area - and it is the gateway to the growing Gippsland region. Given our poor on-field performance over the last few years, we would have struggled to grow supporters from a VFL presence anywhere in the State especially in the Eastern suburbs where Hawthorn has its stronghold.

Us Demonlanders don't particularly like driving out to Casey. The question is how many '000's of footy fans 20 years from now will enjoy the short drive in to Casey to support Melbourne!.

If the intention is to retain the Scorpion logo as a throw back to the Springvale roots of the club - and as a sign that Melbourne has only a "loose" affiliation which won't outlast the minimum contractual obligation, then I'd back a move back towards the city asap.

I'm very keen to know Jackson's view of the Casey arrangement.Surely It is fundamental to our player development program. Are we committed - or are we just biding our time until we have the $$$ to field our own team?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I must admit that while I went often to Sandy, Casey has really put me off.

It is quite far to travel, is cold and windy and has no atmosphere, even for VFL games.

I don't think the Casey experiment has improved our membership either.

If we were to have a stand alone VFL team, which seems to be the way most clubs are heading, then playing somewhere like Elsternwick/Prahran, with new facilities and reasonable ground control could have many advantages, not least of all, better attendances at VFL games.

The idea of Casey is good, the biggest problem is that Melbourne have been terrible in the time we have been associated with Casey.

[dpositive 1,838]

Gee hoopla

I found myself agreeing with every aspect of your post.

Probably more information is needed. It doesnt really affect me directly as I dont get down to the games so much, certainly not to Casey

We need a dedicated base and we need to identify with the local community.

The team should be badged as the Casey Demons.

Players and coaches should be encouraged to live near there and be part of that community.

We must however keep our MCG alliance as the Melbourne Football Club Demons. One of the founding clubs of football.

The history of the club needs to be implanted into the expanding regions of Melbourne.

Success on the field and competitive and entertaining matches will give us more exposure and will grow our supporter base.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,459]

In the initial negotiations with Casey we committed to a 20 year arrangement. I'm not sure whether the commitment was purely a commitment to use the property ( for summer training etc) or a commitment to support the Casey Scorpions. If it is the latter I can live with it as long as we control all on-field decisions. I would like to re-badge the team the "Casey Demons" to make it very clear that we intend to stay.

There is significant development taking place in the area - and it is the gateway to the growing Gippsland region. Given our poor on-field performance over the last few years, we would have struggled to grow supporters from a VFL presence anywhere in the State especially in the Eastern suburbs where Hawthorn has its stronghold.

Us Demonlanders don't particularly like driving out to Casey. The question is how many '000's of footy fans 20 years from now will enjoy the short drive in to Casey to support Melbourne!.

If the intention is to retain the Scorpion logo as a throw back to the Springvale roots of the club - and as a sign that Melbourne has only a "loose" affiliation which won't outlast the minimum contractual obligation, then I'd back a move back towards the city asap.

I'm very keen to know Jackson's view of the Casey arrangement.Surely It is fundamental to our player development program. Are we committed - or are we just biding our time until we have the $$$ to field our own team?

The Casey move seems to be another of Schwabs "build it and they will come" plans. I fail to see how training out there occasionally, visiting some schools and having a poor alignment with the local VFL side is going to recruit new supporters to the club. If it was a new area to footy we were targeting fair enough but this is only half an hour or so from the CBD. Unlikely to be too many unaligned people out there.

[Biffen 12,949]

Kick the Old Xavs and the Two Blues off Prahran and upgrade.

I would reckon it is better positioned than Elsternwick.

Closer to Richmond ,and likely closer to Toorak where most AFL players probably live ( will check with Saty).

[hoopla 418]

The Casey move seems to be another of Schwabs "build it and they will come" plans. I fail to see how training out there occasionally, visiting some schools and having a poor alignment with the local VFL side is going to recruit new supporters to the club. If it was a new area to footy we were targeting fair enough but this is only half an hour or so from the CBD. Unlikely to be too many unaligned people out there.

Unusual to see a post suggesting that Casey is too close to the CBD to attract new supporters !!

As I have said above the biggest problem with Casey is the continuing perception that it is a wobbly alliance - that Melbourne will walk away from as soon as it has the finances to do so.

Hawthorn has complete on-field control over the Box Hill Hawks ( formerly the Box Hill Mustangs).Do we aspire to have total on-field control over Casey ? If so we need to bury the unhelpful history of the Springvale "Scorpions" and lock in our claim to the growing gateway into Gippsland through a long-term investment in the Casey "Demons".

"What's in a name?" many of you may ask. In this case, I'd suggest quite a lot . Given a say in the matter why would Melbourne want its overflow players to play for a separately- badged club - and why would it use the logo of a separately-badged club as an entree into a community ahead of a jointly-badged option.

The Casey Scorpions website needs a bit of maintenance - but everything about it - including its Board - suggests that it retains control over all key decisions - including the brand. Although the Casey FC has struggled to survive we didn't have the financial strength to impose our own conditions on the alignment when it was first established. Is that still the case?

If not - launch the Casey Demons.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Played a fair bit of Ammos at Wick park and the facilities are shithouse. Would need a load of work.

I also train and play at Toorak Park which has far better facilities and in my view would make a much better training base than Elsternwick. Toorak Park is next to a train line and a tram line and is smack bang in the middle of demon heartland.

Anyway, Toorak Park is not an option and I would bother with Elsternwick either.

[Roger Mellie 4,179]

I'm not sure if this is right but when we first moved into AAMI Park, it gave us everything we needed in terms of state of the art facilities but was not big enough to accommodate our coaching department (let alone the admin staff). The rent was also beyond our means. I don't believe it therefore sustainable over the long term. Added to this, we occasionally get chucked out when the circus is in town, then it makes sense to look for somewhere we have total control over, we can afford (or own) and have room to grow as the club does.

[bluey 1,118]

I'm not sure if this is right but when we first moved into AAMI Park, it gave us everything we needed in terms of state of the art facilities but was not big enough to accommodate our coaching department (let alone the admin staff). The rent was also beyond our means. I don't believe it therefore sustainable over the long term. Added to this, we occasionally get chucked out when the circus is in town, then it makes sense to look for somewhere we have total control over, we can afford (or own) and have room to grow as the club does.

That is correct, the argument has always been that the clubs administration and Football Depot should be co-located.

Gosch's paddock is problematic as it is not possible to have a truly closed session on the side of a 6 lane road.

Training at AAMI needs to be rostered around the other tenants.

I believe we receive free rental for staff at the MCG as part of MCC alignment.

The other site is Casey where we train a few times in summer, and play our second 18.

On the surface it's a mess, but I doubt if it affects the scoreboard, just inconvenient for everybody working within the club.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,459]

Unusual to see a post suggesting that Casey is too close to the CBD to attract new supporters !!

It's an hour out of town - not exactly wild new frontiers...

[Roger Mellie 4,179]

That is correct, the argument has always been that the clubs administration and Football Depot should be co-located.

Gosch's paddock is problematic as it is not possible to have a truly closed session on the side of a 6 lane road.

Training at AAMI needs to be rostered around the other tenants.

I believe we receive free rental for staff at the MCG as part of MCC alignment.

The other site is Casey where we train a few times in summer, and play our second 18.

On the surface it's a mess, but I doubt if it affects the scoreboard, just inconvenient for everybody working within the club.

I agree with you, but I don't think even the whole footy dept fit at AAMI Park.

The current set-up could be described as adequate but not ideal, so I think they'll always be on the lookout for better options for the longer term, particularly if they can get the AFL/State Govt to cough up.