This has probably already been mentioned but why didn't Zharakis take part in the injection program?

he claimed he was needle phobic

Two years please. Oh lord it will be glorious.

See, I don't get this attitude. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be suspended for 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. But I will take no joy out of it. It will be a sad day for AFL football, not a glorious one.

I agree 100%. My point is that this is 34 individual cases and will be looked at as such. Take Watson's case. Through the 2012 season he showed significant improvement in his performance to the point where he won the highest individual honour in the league. if he is found guilty of contravening the drug laws then he should lose that honour and serve a suspension appropriate to the transgression. Each case will need to be assessed. I would not be surprised if some are found not guilty because of lack of sufficient evidence. Others may get long suspensions.

The club and supervisors of the systemic drug program will then have to cop their wack and while the penalties to the individual players will hurt them, the penalties handed out to the club may well have a profound and far reaching impact on the whole league.

I reckon this accords with my thoughts #2557 on 3/3

"the scaling of penalties from Danks down to the players.

That is that as the AFL need a scapegoat to show WADA that they are genuine about drugs in sport

Danks can be banned for life.

Hird gets banned for life.

DR Reid gets banned from sport for life.

Little and EFC board banned and removed.

Players who have left get 2 years.

Watson forfeits brownlow .

Watson and Fletcher 12 months from International game.

players still listed get 12 months from when notices issued free to play after 4 rounds.

This allows for severity to be acknowledged and some players disposed of while allowing the club to continue in a revised form with existing "duped" players continuing in a remorseful state."

If any whitewash presented on 31st anticipate ASADA and WADA to go full bore at AFL

he claimed he was needle phobic

ha, sure there is more to that story....

Could it be the players will be looked after financially whilst suspended ( extra coint to compensate for damage etc ) it would make sense on one hand controlling the clubs costs and provide another path to Hird their sheep , on the other hand extra payments would exceed their salary cap

I read earlier today that manager/agent Peter Jess claimed players would be suing the AFL, as the over-arching employer, over failure to properly supervise the EFC.

FMD!

Surely the players should be looking at their own club, you know the one that, according to their own review by Switkowski was a "disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review"

See, I don't get this attitude. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be suspended for 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. But I will take no joy out of it. It will be a sad day for AFL football, not a glorious one.

True, but the way Hird & co have behaved makes it too easy for one's darker emotions to emerge.

Robbo tweeted this 'opinion' earlier today.

I suspect Essendon will call a press conference before March 31 and announce James Hird will be coach this year regardless of what decision the anti-doping tribunal finds. The club will say Hird has already been punished, that the players want him and that the that the club wants him to be coach. Some media types will smash the club, but club won't care. The club and players want Hird.

Despite his buffoonery he's pretty well connected on Essendon intel. I honestly cannot believe Hird gets out of this scot free, regardless of what happens to players. I know he was good at chasing leather around many years ago, but he clearly does not deserve a golden ticket for life because of it. Absolutely ludicrous!

LDVC the joy comes from whacking cheats. Not only have they sought advantage but attempted to hide behind others and technicalities.

No sympathy from me. Ban them.

See, I don't get this attitude. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be suspended for 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. But I will take no joy out of it. It will be a sad day for AFL football, not a glorious one.

I hate Essendon, for lots of reasons - but the key thing here is, our game is on the line. Essendon's behaviour in 2012 was a cancer in the game, and their behaviour ever since has been that of one of those cults that refuse to allow medical treatment. The clock goes on ticking away while nothing is done, more and more speculating on how their defense should go, what indulgences should be granted them, why surgery might be uncomfortable somehow... Watch the thing metastisize if it is not definitively excised.

Of course there should be joy when the disease is absolutely, definitively, permanently dealt with. Heavy penalties will stop the spread, and provide a safe margin around all that was rotten. Since there seems to be doubt about whether this will be achieved, it will be a joy of great relief - not hatred-inspired. We may hate Essendon, but greater than that is that we love the game, and we love sport.

See, I don't get this attitude. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be suspended for 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. But I will take no joy out of it. It will be a sad day for AFL football, not a glorious one.

i think the thought is that the club has already made it a sad time for everyone involved in footy. The glorious part will be them receiving the whack they deserve as they should not get away with doing this to our beloved game

Robbo tweeted this 'opinion' earlier today.

I suspect Essendon will call a press conference before March 31 and announce James Hird will be coach this year regardless of what decision the anti-doping tribunal finds. The club will say Hird has already been punished, that the players want him and that the that the club wants him to be coach. Some media types will smash the club, but club won't care. The club and players want Hird.

Despite his buffoonery he's pretty well connected on Essendon intel. I honestly cannot believe Hird gets out of this scot free, regardless of what happens to players. I know he was good at chasing leather around many years ago, but he clearly does not deserve a golden ticket for life because of it. Absolutely ludicrous!

I suspect the players will feel very differently about him if they are missing games, if they don't already.

See, I don't get this attitude. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be suspended for 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. But I will take no joy out of it. It will be a sad day for AFL football, not a glorious one.

But what if strong penalties leads to a cleaner AFL? How do we know that what Essendon has done hasn't been done before (or at least in a similar vein) What if this wake up call makes the AFL sit up and take notice and therefore becomes the world leader in terms of driving out drug cheats.

Right now, to my way of thinking, the 5 biggest sports in terms of drug cheats are soccer, basketball, ice hockey, American football and baseball. And as far as I'm concerned, none of those 5 sports are doing anywhere near enough in terms of catching drug cheats in their respective sports.

They all have a 'soft' agreement with WADA which leads to negligent testing standards and procedures and as for the penalties involved for drug cheats that are caught in those sports, soft again.

If anyone cares to do their own research, they'll find I'm right.

Right across the board, all sports need to do weekly blood tests if those sports are serious about weeding out the drug cheats. To a large extent, cycling and the olympic sports are doing this (plus, those sports have tough penalties) Their transparency comes at a price though (unfortunately)

This Essendon saga does offer the opportunity for the AFL to lead the way (going forward)

Could it be the players will be looked after financially whilst suspended ( extra coint to compensate for damage etc ) it would make sense on one hand controlling the clubs costs and provide another path to Hird their sheep , on the other hand extra payments would exceed their salary cap

I reckon I read that the players cannot be paid by the club if they are banned. Nor can they train with the club. Stand to be corrected.

I see the HUN is saying that the player's penalty could be as little as weeks because they were not party to the legal delays caused by Hird & EFC and thus generous backdating is possible.

What sort of message does that send to sporting administrators? Start bogus cases, appeal etc but make sure the players aren't involved and then when the guilty verdict comes in, the player's penalty will be a joke.

When issued show cause notices the players refused to respond.

They also have not admitted any guilt and chose to fight the process at the Tribunal.

They lose any "benefit" based on these two items.

I see the HUN is saying that the player's penalty could be as little as weeks because they were not party to the legal delays caused by Hird & EFC and thus generous backdating is possible.

What sort of message does that send to sporting administrators? Start bogus cases, appeal etc but make sure the players aren't involved and then when the guilty verdict comes in, the player's penalty will be a joke.

Yeah it will be a real deterrent going forward. If you cheat your run the risk of missing 3 NAB challenge games.

The Hun... pushing the barrow til the end.

They are as usual wrong.

Some fanboys are going to look very stupid ( more so if possible ) very soon.

Heraldsun= propaganda machine

This thread seemed to have almost ground to a halt with the "withdrawal" of Dees2014. I think I will give up on speculation and trying to understand the subtleties at play here with regards to the law and just wait for the AFL's decision to be handed down on the 31st March.

I'm sure that following the AFL's anouncement we will be hit with a Category 7.5 [censored], so in the meantime, it's probably best to get some rest in preparation.

This thread seemed to have almost ground to a halt with the "withdrawal" of Dees2014. I think I will give up on speculation and trying to understand the subtleties at play here with regards to the law and just wait for the AFL's decision to be handed down on the 31st March.

I'm sure that following the AFL's anouncement we will be hit with a Category 7.5 [censored], so in the meantime, it's probably best to get some rest in preparation.

a paleo diet and lots of gym work seems advisable at least till the 31st, hardtack

then we can hit the popcorn (....maybe)

I see the HUN is saying that the player's penalty could be as little as weeks because they were not party to the legal delays caused by Hird & EFC and thus generous backdating is possible.

What sort of message does that send to sporting administrators? Start bogus cases, appeal etc but make sure the players aren't involved and then when the guilty verdict comes in, the player's penalty will be a joke.

Michael Warner, Seriously? The guy that tweeted Ess was 3/400 against ASADAs all out 300 in the EFC Hird court case??

You do realise he is a card carrying EFC acolyte with less than zero credibility. Please don't give it any oxygen. it doesn't deserve it.

Some idiot presenters on ABC radio basically saying everyone should get off because this has taken so long. No mention of Hird & co's delaying tactics. Doubtless if the players were convicted quickly they'd be complaining that the process must be shonky to have been determined so fast.

The Hun... pushing the barrow til the end.

They are as usual wrong.

Some fanboys are going to look very stupid ( more so if possible ) very soon.

Heraldsun= propaganda machine

Well bb it has happened.

This may be the occasion that we agree on this subject.

Who would have thought...

Michael Warner, Seriously? The guy that tweeted Ess was 3/400 against ASADAs all out 300 in the EFC Hird court case??

You do realise he is a card carrying EFC acolyte with less than zero credibility. Please don't give it any oxygen. it doesn't deserve it.

This is exactly why Essendon & Hird have gone down this road.

They want it to drag out as long as they can

Incite public boredom

It is the ONLY DEFENCE they have got.

if that happens Ahmed Saad would be well within his rights to write in and ask why he got 18 months or whatever he got for purchasing something that was banned but the players who have likely injected a product that is clearly banned many times only get weeks, soft penalties would only open up a can of worms i don't think the AFL is capable of dealing with.