AFL National Draft 2014 Picks 2 & 3

[dee-luded 2,958]

It just highlights we stuffed up our picks but there are always good midfielders in drafts, but big good key talls are hard to get. If you have a chance to grab one you get him and we have a chance to grab one.

I never met a great mid yet that is squeaky clean, & sings choir songs on the way to work. they just don't Go with one another.

carn Dees, lets get down & dirty....

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I'm not deviating - no-one is telling me he is a transcendent talent that is streets ahead of the 4th best prospect.

Every year, there is a mid taken in the range after the first few 'locks' that turns into an absolute gun.

We need that gun at ND3.

You can make forward line with the talent we have and can trade for a player or two later, the midfield requires instant attention and the injection of three quality players last year gave us a sum of 5 and it still moved the needle only slightly - we were still behind in so many metrics in the middle.

But forgetting stats for a moment - Matt Jones is our 6th best mid, that should be alarming.

You need 10-12 quality players to rotate through there. Matt Jones suited to the tenth or eleventh rotation...

I think we understand that players like M. Jones and Mckenzie are not good enough, and Daniel Cross is not a long term option but we have made significant investments in the midfield in the last couple of seasons.

Viney, Salem, Toumpas, Tyson, Michie, Riley and Hunt. Throw in Jkh and Kent rotating through as well. Some we know are good, some we think will develop and a few are unknown quantities, We have also committed to Stretch in this draft. At some stage we need to behave like a decent club and back our recruiting and development.

If our recruiters think that there is a Matty Scarlett or Adam Goodes available I would be horrified if we didn't draft them because they weren't midfielders.

Edited October 23, 2014 by jabberwocky

[P-man 13,353]

I think Laverde has the class Roos has been talking about. It will all depend who the saints take at 1 I guess. If petracca falls through then I think it will be petracca/brayshaw. If not then maybe laverde will be on the radar if he has good two way running capabilities. Also has ability to play forward too which may make Viney and co. look a bit harder at him.

Laverde looks a clearer choice to me ahead of Lever. Athletic, quick, silky skills, strong overhead, good decisonmaker. Lever looks a longer term prospect.

If Petracca goes 1, then it's either Brayshaw/McCartin or Brayshaw/Laverde, pending on if they want to fill the spots with two mids, which I wouldn't be hugely opposed to. If Petracca is available then it's a lot simpler.

I just hope we don't try to get too clever. Pick the two kids we have the least chance of stuffing up.

[nutbean 8,837]

I just hope we don't try to get too clever. Pick the two kids we have the least chance of stuffing up.

Easier said than done...

We didn't get clever with Toumpas and look how that turned out

We didn't get clever with Scully /Trengove and look how that turned out

We didn't get clever with Morton and look how that turned out

We tried to be clever with Cook and look how that turned out

We tried to be clever with Gysberts and look how that turned out

The biggest change for me is not that we now have ability to pick the right footballer - We appear to have a coach and staff who can develop whoever we pick. This has been glaringly missing in the past.

[rjay 24,203]

Laverde looks a clearer choice to me ahead of Lever. Athletic, quick, silky skills, strong overhead, good decisonmaker. Lever looks a longer term prospect.

If Petracca goes 1, then it's either Brayshaw/McCartin or Brayshaw/Laverde, pending on if they want to fill the spots with two mids, which I wouldn't be hugely opposed to. If Petracca is available then it's a lot simpler.

I just hope we don't try to get too clever. Pick the two kids we have the least chance of stuffing up.

One thing Laverde isn't is a good decision maker. He may get better as time goes on but he does have a habit of running himself into trouble, a bit like Sammy Blease in this department.

[durango 1,985]

Recruiters sometimes are overruled by the coach when they get a chance to select a player. The example was when we recruited Molan, Craig Cameron wanted Del Santo. This is not being clever but sometimes the blame may lay with the coach. The player selected has to have a bit of luck re-injury and then have the application to want to improve and become the player the club desires. Sometimes player don't buckle down and do the work until it is too late eg Blease. Sometimes the art of picking players is not a science but a gut feel, I spoke to Ray Jordan once about the type of players he wanted and he said they should have a bit of c..t about them. So we should respect that Taylor Viney and Roos will get the best players available who ever they maybe. Brayshaw and Stetch have already been exposed to Roos methods last year and know what to expect. So pick 3 is the unknown, my selection has not been mentioned by anyone to date so I will keep the selection to myself.

[mdemonski2 403]

Recruiters sometimes are overruled by the coach when they get a chance to select a player. The example was when we recruited Molan, Craig Cameron wanted Del Santo. This is not being clever but sometimes the blame may lay with the coach. The player selected has to have a bit of luck re-injury and then have the application to want to improve and become the player the club desires. Sometimes player don't buckle down and do the work until it is too late eg Blease. Sometimes the art of picking players is not a science but a gut feel, I spoke to Ray Jordan once about the type of players he wanted and he said they should have a bit of c..t about them. So we should respect that Taylor Viney and Roos will get the best players available who ever they maybe. Brayshaw and Stetch have already been exposed to Roos methods last year and know what to expect. So pick 3 is the unknown, my selection has not been mentioned by anyone to date so I will keep the selection to myself.

Thanks Durango but come now why not give us your thoughts on pick 3? Not sure st kilda recruiters read demonland so it doesn't really matter.

Also agree with pick 3 needing a bit of c..t. McCartin has this from all reports. I believe lever also has. I think we are weighing up a difficult choice between those two myself.

[P-man 13,353]

The biggest change for me is not that we now have ability to pick the right footballer - We appear to have a coach and staff who can develop whoever we pick. This has been glaringly missing in the past.

Yep, and given we have that as an ingredient it means that taking the obvious standout has a greater chance of yielding a result.

For the record, jury is out on Toump and Trenners was part development and part shocking luck. As for the other two, Scully granted, but I can't buy this theory that every recruiter in the land would've taken Morton at pick 4. If so then I'll happily claim they all need their head read.

One thing Laverde isn't is a good decision maker. He may get better as time goes on but he does have a habit of running himself into trouble, a bit like Sammy Blease in this department.

Not on the vision I've watched. Ran himself into trouble a couple of times but didn't panic and usually kicked to the advantage of his teammates, but I'm assuming from your comment that you've seen a lot more of him. Still looks the goods to me. Just needs to add a bit of size.

[rjay 24,203]

Yep, and given we have that as an ingredient it means that taking the obvious standout has a greater chance of yielding a result.

For the record, jury is out on Toump and Trenners was part development and part shocking luck. As for the other two, Scully granted, but I can't buy this theory that every recruiter in the land would've taken Morton at pick 4. If so then I'll happily claim they all need their head read.

Not on the vision I've watched. Ran himself into trouble a couple of times but didn't panic and usually kicked to the advantage of his teammates, but I'm assuming from your comment that you've seen a lot more of him. Still looks the goods to me. Just needs to add a bit of size.

I've watched him in a few games and he is the enigma pick for me. I've said before he could be Fyfe or he could be Murdoch. Now Murdoch from the Cats is quick and a great kick but has no game sense and you wouldn't give away pick 3 for him. Fyfe of course you would.

He looks the classiest of the top picks, so this is where the recruiters should earn their money. If he's Fyfe they better take him but could he be Murdoch or even Blease.

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

I've been told be a credible source that our choice is between Petracca and McCartin, and we will be taking whichever one St. Kilda doesn't.

[Machsy 2,858]

Recruiters sometimes are overruled by the coach when they get a chance to select a player. The example was when we recruited Molan, Craig Cameron wanted Del Santo. This is not being clever but sometimes the blame may lay with the coach. The player selected has to have a bit of luck re-injury and then have the application to want to improve and become the player the club desires. Sometimes player don't buckle down and do the work until it is too late eg Blease. Sometimes the art of picking players is not a science but a gut feel, I spoke to Ray Jordan once about the type of players he wanted and he said they should have a bit of c..t about them. So we should respect that Taylor Viney and Roos will get the best players available who ever they maybe. Brayshaw and Stetch have already been exposed to Roos methods last year and know what to expect. So pick 3 is the unknown, my selection has not been mentioned by anyone to date so I will keep the selection to myself.

De goey?

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,967]

I've been told be a credible source that our choice is between Petracca and McCartin, and we will be taking whichever one St. Kilda doesn't.

As long as we take the two players we think are best at those picks I'm happy

[rpfc 27,693]

I think we understand that players like M. Jones and Mckenzie are not good enough, and Daniel Cross is not a long term option but we have made significant investments in the midfield in the last couple of seasons.

Viney, Salem, Toumpas, Tyson, Michie, Riley and Hunt. Throw in Jkh and Kent rotating through as well. Some we know are good, some we think will develop and a few are unknown quantities, We have also committed to Stretch in this draft. At some stage we need to behave like a decent club and back our recruiting and development.

If our recruiters think that there is a Matty Scarlett or Adam Goodes available I would be horrified if we didn't draft them because they weren't midfielders.

Are they transcendent talents? Yes! Then pick them.

Your list of players does not inspire confidence. Viney, Salem, Tyson are talented enough to be in that 12 as we move forward with Jones and Vince so I hope they continue their progress. JKH and Kent show promise in the middle but not more than that.

Toumpas, Hunt, Riley and Michie have done next to nothing for me to be excited about them as midfielders.

[PaulRB 6,130]

I love that we're faced with the tough choice of taking the best mid in the draft OR taking the best forward in the draft...

Tough times

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,087]

Not convinced by lever.

Think laverde is in the mix and pickett would be a risk.

hope saints take McMartin but i hear Petracca is family friends with saints coach.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,087]

Are they transcendent talents? Yes! Then pick them.

Your list of players does not inspire confidence. Viney, Salem, Tyson are talented enough to be in that 12 as we move forward with Jones and Vince so I hope they continue their progress. JKH and Kent show promise in the middle but not more than that.

Toumpas, Hunt, Riley and Michie have done next to nothing for me to be excited about them as midfielders.

i think riley has something but i hear ya.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Are they transcendent talents? Yes! Then pick them.

Your list of players does not inspire confidence. Viney, Salem, Tyson are talented enough to be in that 12 as we move forward with Jones and Vince so I hope they continue their progress. JKH and Kent show promise in the middle but not more than that.

Toumpas, Hunt, Riley and Michie have done next to nothing for me to be excited about them as midfielders.

I am not in the head of Jason Taylor, but for me he only has to believe that one player has a better chance of being that great talent over another to pick that player. Skewing your selections in favour of the best midfielder is dumb. You speak of picking a "transcendental" talent as if it is an easy thing to do, (and besides if players want to wear ladies clothes in thier own time that is thier business).

As for Toumpas, Riley and Michie. Riley and Michie have been at the club 5 mins with the former having done no pre-season after a badly broken leg, and Michie has shown something. Toumpas is a kid and clearly needs to lift but...is a kid.

Pick best available or risk losing a star.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

I love that we're faced with the tough choice of taking the best mid in the draft OR taking the best forward in the draft...

Tough times

It is a tough choice! We'll find out in about 5 years!

[Demons rising 52]

Long month ahead

How many threads of the same stuff

Probably only limited options ( hopefully all turn out to be guns)

I keep refreshing post but reality is we have a high chance with our current off field staff of getting two very good players

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

Are they transcendent talents? Yes! Then pick them.

Your list of players does not inspire confidence. Viney, Salem, Tyson are talented enough to be in that 12 as we move forward with Jones and Vince so I hope they continue their progress. JKH and Kent show promise in the middle but not more than that.

Toumpas, Hunt, Riley and Michie have done next to nothing for me to be excited about them as midfielders.

There's no way to work out who are the transcendent talents until about 5 years time! But I know I don't want to pass Pavlich to take Aaron Fiora. If we go for who we think is the best available the list will eventually balance out with talent.

[Bay Riffin 1,434]

I've been told be a credible source that our choice is between Petracca and McCartin, and we will be taking whichever one St. Kilda doesn't.

Wow. Given Roos hesitancy to go for talls in the draft due to the different TAC cup rules some poster alluded to (no double teaming etc) that suggests we really must see something in McCartin. We would then have 3 key forwards, as well as talls in Howe and Watts and Pederson that can play forward.

If we get McCartin then it would be obvious to throw the kitchen sink at the best available mid in free agency next year.

[rpfc 27,693]

There's no way to work out who are the transcendent talents until about 5 years time! But I know I don't want to pass Pavlich to take Aaron Fiora. If we go for who we think is the best available the list will eventually balance out with talent.

I am sorry to say, but most of those extolling the virtues of going for 'Best Available' are going for the best players right now.

There is a difference between picking the best available players, and picking the players you believe will be the best players.

I would prefer the latter.

[Akum 2,660]

...

There is a difference between picking the best available players, and picking the players you believe will be the best players.

I would prefer the latter.

Very true.

And if there was an easy way to do it, that's exactly what everybody would be doing!

[Bay Riffin 1,434]

Very true.

And if there was an easy way to do it, that's exactly what everybody would be doing!

Yeah not sure any club does NOT subscribe to the process of picking the player they think will be the best in a few years.

[PaulRB 6,130]

It is a tough choice! We'll find out in about 5 years!

Yes but it's not our choice, it is the Saints that will choose... and be held to account for the choice.

No buyers remorse for us, as our rebuild hits high gear with Brayshaw PLUS Petracca OR McCartin joining us in 2015.

One can almost feel us catching up with the pack...