Casey Scorpions - the off season

[beelzebub 23,369]

The Footscray Bulldogs won the VFL last year with the following ex-AFL players on their VFL list:

but what has it got them ??

[beelzebub 23,369]

Casey will have quite a number of Melbourne players to utilise. Casey is ( now ) a development participant in the greater Melbourne cause.

and thats all it should be ...yes I know Im one eyed Melbourne !!

[old dee 23,790]

Casey will have quite a number of Melbourne players to utilise. Casey is ( now ) a development participant in the greater Melbourne cause.

and thats all it should be ...yes I know Im one eyed Melbourne !!

Go on I would never have guessed it!

[Whispering_Jack 30,091]

I've always maintained that you need your aligned club to have its own playing group with sufficient strength to provide the right environment to enable the development of your own playing group and to also be successful in its own right. Casey failed in that regard for a number of reasons which led to its on field demise this year. Now that the drafts are over and a number of available players who missed out can be identified, it's up to the Scorpions to work hard on their recruiting and pick up at least 2 or 3 match toughened players with harder bodies that they lacked this year and the Demons have a responsibility to help them.

I would also like to see Casey gain a bigger following in its own region. Some of the crowds at games I attended this year were abysmal which I suppose reflects on the standard of its football and also, the fact that it still hasn't been embraced by the local Cranbourne community since its move from Springvale a decade ago.

[rjay 24,921]

I've always maintained that you need your aligned club to have its own playing group with sufficient strength to provide the right environment to enable the development of your own playing group and to also be successful in its own right. Casey failed in that regard for a number of reasons which led to its on field demise this year. Now that the drafts are over and a number of available players who missed out can be identified, it's up to the Scorpions to work hard on their recruiting and pick up at least 2 or 3 match toughened players with harder bodies that they lacked this year and the Demons have a responsibility to help them.

I would also like to see Casey gain a bigger following in its own region. Some of the crowds at games I attended this year were abysmal which I suppose reflects on the standard of its football and also, the fact that it still hasn't been embraced by the local Cranbourne community since its move from Springvale a decade ago.

Spot on 'Jack', this is a must. Byrnes is a start but we need one or two more.

[DeeSpencer 25,692]

but what has it got them ??

Great VFL crowds. A renewed passion for the club in the region and a development model that seems to be working for the likes of Macrae, Stringer, Bontempelli etc.

Now they obviously had some other issues that we know about but that doesn't mean their VFL wasn't a success.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Think for the alignment to work its, imperative for local community to buy in. How you make that happen I'm not sure exactly, but getting the best local players and extensive marketing and benefits to the locals cant hurt.

[Slartibartfast 17,273]

One of the major issues for me is that the Casey ground is such a poor viewing ground. It's large, with a large camber and you can't really get high enough to see much.

And if there is the slightest breeze it turns into a tornado at Cranbourne. All in all it's probably the least inviting ground in the VFL to watch footy from.

Hence small crowds, even for the locals who don't have to spend 50 minutes in the car to get there.

[Oneday 248]

he has a personality all of his own,with quite an off beat flying pattern.

Seems to have gone quiet lately though.

Surely you didn't pick a fight with poor old Reginald did you Biff?

[Dockett 32 1,239]

"Least inviting ground in the VFL to watch footy from". That's a big call BB.

Have you ever played or watched a game at Willy on a windy cold winters day? Werribee or Frankston perhaps?

Cannot agree at all. Sandringham is not even terraced and has minimal coverage for patrons.

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but one things for sure, Casey is in a fast growing corridor with many young families. I would have thought there was a reasonable prospect of building a decent enterprise around this.

[dazzledavey36 54,913]

Shannon Byrnes is an ex AFL player...

Wow thats 1...

[old dee 23,790]

Wow thats 1...

A journey of a thousand Kilometres starts with a single step!

[rjay 24,921]

"Least inviting ground in the VFL to watch footy from". That's a big call BB.

Have you ever played or watched a game at Willy on a windy cold winters day? Werribee or Frankston perhaps?

Cannot agree at all. Sandringham is not even terraced and has minimal coverage for patrons.

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but one things for sure, Casey is in a fast growing corridor with many young families. I would have thought there was a reasonable prospect of building a decent enterprise around this.

We've been there for a while now 'Dockett' and it's looking more doubtful by the year particularly with Casey being close to broke.

[Slartibartfast 17,273]

"Least inviting ground in the VFL to watch footy from". That's a big call BB.

Have you ever played or watched a game at Willy on a windy cold winters day? Werribee or Frankston perhaps?

Cannot agree at all. Sandringham is not even terraced and has minimal coverage for patrons.

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but one things for sure, Casey is in a fast growing corridor with many young families. I would have thought there was a reasonable prospect of building a decent enterprise around this.

I've been to Willy on a cold winters day. But you can sit in the stand and get a reasonable view. There is a little stand at Werribee you can sit in and that gives you a reasonable view. Frankston is not flash but on the outer side up on the hill it's ok. And it's got lots of character over there.

Sandy was good because the ground was so small. Not good for footy development but good for viewing. I don't know the dimensions of the grounds but Casey does seem big and has big boundary's as well which just compounds the problem, it's not sheltered at all by terrain (not any hills around) and the trees are so far from the ground that they provide no protection so the wind impacts significantly.

I've seen a lot of games at Casey and just couldn't find a good vantage point. I go to all the grounds you mention plus Coburg, OO and Port because I get to see a bit. IMO Casey is the worst. But I haven't viewed from the social club - that might be ok.

[Bossdog 2,002]

I've been to Willy on a cold winters day. But you can sit in the stand and get a reasonable view. There is a little stand at Werribee you can sit in and that gives you a reasonable view. Frankston is not flash but on the outer side up on the hill it's ok. And it's got lots of character over there.

Sandy was good because the ground was so small. Not good for footy development but good for viewing. I don't know the dimensions of the grounds but Casey does seem big and has big boundary's as well which just compounds the problem, it's not sheltered at all by terrain (not any hills around) and the trees are so far from the ground that they provide no protection so the wind impacts significantly.

I've seen a lot of games at Casey and just couldn't find a good vantage point. I go to all the grounds you mention plus Coburg, OO and Port because I get to see a bit. IMO Casey is the worst. But I haven't viewed from the social club - that might be ok.

Viewing from the social club is alright Bob......Beer in hand and a smoke on the patio outside........You need something to take your mind off the dismal conditions and the way Casey played this year. The wind is always blowing a gale there it seams....

[Whispering_Jack 30,091]

One of the major issues for me is that the Casey ground is such a poor viewing ground. It's large, with a large camber and you can't really get high enough to see much.

And if there is the slightest breeze it turns into a tornado at Cranbourne. All in all it's probably the least inviting ground in the VFL to watch footy from.

Hence small crowds, even for the locals who don't have to spend 50 minutes in the car to get there.

The point you make about the conditions and amenities at Casey Fields is well known and documented but these things apply in the case of many outer suburban venues and yet the clubs that use them (often at much lower levels) can still attract good crowds for local matches.

I think the problems at Casey go much further. The Scorpions are a local club that was uprooted a decade ago from Springvale where they had a ground that had become unsuited to VFL competition and in addition was situated in an area that had undergone substantial demographic change and therefore had a declining supporter base for our footy. For some reason, the local community at Cranbourne hasn't totally embraced the club.

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or upsetting anybody's sensibilities because I'm not a local but my casual observation of the situation is that perhaps the identification with "Casey" rather than "Cranbourne" is one of the problems.

The City of Casey was formed during the Kennett years and is an amalgam of the old Cranbourne and Berwick municipalities. The two areas are cheese and chalk in many respects and Casey is still more resonant of the northern part of the municipality which is where the name came from in the first place. I get the feeling therefore that the Cranbourne locals aren't fully enamoured with the Casey identity yet - the municipal offices are at Fountain Gate where the old Berwick Shire offices are situated while the old Cranbourne Shire offices were closed years ago and are now used for other purposes. So there's a possible disconnect between the folk at Cranbourne and the concept of Casey where the power base seems to be elsewhere.

In addition, there's the Cranbourne Football Club which is a strong club with lots of depth and tradition and a base going all the way down to the junior ranks which therefore gives it an enormous foothold in the local community and from which the Casey Scorpions stand apart.

I would like to hear from the locals but my theory is that for a football club to work in this area, it needs to have a heart and soul. A closer connection to the local name and the local football club might do the trick. Perhaps some sort of alignment between the two that sees the club become the Cranbourne Demons at VFL senior and development team level and to retain the Cranbourne Eagles identity at local and junior levels.

I realise this is probably a highly sensitive area. On the one hand, it would be breaking tradition with the old Springvale but from what I see, much of that has been lost and the club isn't attracting supporters or dollars from that part of the world and without those things, it will never flourish. By ditching the Casey name, it might also get some noses out of joint from the northern part of the municipality while traditionalists from the local Cranbourne club and those associated with other clubs in the area might not be comfortable either.

I've put it out there as an idea and as a possible alternative to abandoning the idea of an alignment and doing what a number of other clubs are doing and going alone - possibly to Prahran or to Punt Road to share with Richmond.

[Redleg 40,914]

The point you make about the conditions and amenities at Casey Fields is well known and documented but these things apply in the case of many outer suburban venues and yet the clubs that use them (often at much lower levels) can still attract good crowds for local matches.

I think the problems at Casey go much further. The Scorpions are a local club that was uprooted a decade ago from Springvale where they had a ground that had become unsuited to VFL competition and in addition was situated in an area that had undergone substantial demographic change and therefore had a declining supporter base for our footy. For some reason, the local community at Cranbourne hasn't totally embraced the club.

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or upsetting anybody's sensibilities because I'm not a local but my casual observation of the situation is that perhaps the identification with "Casey" rather than "Cranbourne" is one of the problems.

The City of Casey was formed during the Kennett years and is an amalgam of the old Cranbourne and Berwick municipalities. The two areas are cheese and chalk in many respects and Casey is still more resonant of the northern part of the municipality which is where the name came from in the first place. I get the feeling therefore that the Cranbourne locals aren't fully enamoured with the Casey identity yet - the municipal offices are at Fountain Gate where the old Berwick Shire offices are situated while the old Cranbourne Shire offices were closed years ago and are now used for other purposes. So there's a possible disconnect between the folk at Cranbourne and the concept of Casey where the power base seems to be elsewhere.

In addition, there's the Cranbourne Football Club which is a strong club with lots of depth and tradition and a base going all the way down to the junior ranks which therefore gives it an enormous foothold in the local community and from which the Casey Scorpions stand apart.

I would like to hear from the locals but my theory is that for a football club to work in this area, it needs to have a heart and soul. A closer connection to the local name and the local football club might do the trick. Perhaps some sort of alignment between the two that sees the club become the Cranbourne Demons at VFL senior and development team level and to retain the Cranbourne Eagles identity at local and junior levels.

I realise this is probably a highly sensitive area. On the one hand, it would be breaking tradition with the old Springvale but from what I see, much of that has been lost and the club isn't attracting supporters or dollars from that part of the world and without those things, it will never flourish. By ditching the Casey name, it might also get some noses out of joint from the northern part of the municipality while traditionalists from the local Cranbourne club and those associated with other clubs in the area might not be comfortable either.

I've put it out there as an idea and as a possible alternative to abandoning the idea of an alignment and doing what a number of other clubs are doing and going alone - possibly to Prahran or to Punt Road to share with Richmond.

I would personally love it if we played at Prahran. I would go to most of the home games there.

[Slartibartfast 17,273]

The point you make about the conditions and amenities at Casey Fields is well known and documented but these things apply in the case of many outer suburban venues and yet the clubs that use them (often at much lower levels) can still attract good crowds for local matches.

I think the problems at Casey go much further. The Scorpions are a local club that was uprooted a decade ago from Springvale where they had a ground that had become unsuited to VFL competition and in addition was situated in an area that had undergone substantial demographic change and therefore had a declining supporter base for our footy. For some reason, the local community at Cranbourne hasn't totally embraced the club.

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or upsetting anybody's sensibilities because I'm not a local but my casual observation of the situation is that perhaps the identification with "Casey" rather than "Cranbourne" is one of the problems.

The City of Casey was formed during the Kennett years and is an amalgam of the old Cranbourne and Berwick municipalities. The two areas are cheese and chalk in many respects and Casey is still more resonant of the northern part of the municipality which is where the name came from in the first place. I get the feeling therefore that the Cranbourne locals aren't fully enamoured with the Casey identity yet - the municipal offices are at Fountain Gate where the old Berwick Shire offices are situated while the old Cranbourne Shire offices were closed years ago and are now used for other purposes. So there's a possible disconnect between the folk at Cranbourne and the concept of Casey where the power base seems to be elsewhere.

In addition, there's the Cranbourne Football Club which is a strong club with lots of depth and tradition and a base going all the way down to the junior ranks which therefore gives it an enormous foothold in the local community and from which the Casey Scorpions stand apart.

I would like to hear from the locals but my theory is that for a football club to work in this area, it needs to have a heart and soul. A closer connection to the local name and the local football club might do the trick. Perhaps some sort of alignment between the two that sees the club become the Cranbourne Demons at VFL senior and development team level and to retain the Cranbourne Eagles identity at local and junior levels.

I realise this is probably a highly sensitive area. On the one hand, it would be breaking tradition with the old Springvale but from what I see, much of that has been lost and the club isn't attracting supporters or dollars from that part of the world and without those things, it will never flourish. By ditching the Casey name, it might also get some noses out of joint from the northern part of the municipality while traditionalists from the local Cranbourne club and those associated with other clubs in the area might not be comfortable either.

I've put it out there as an idea and as a possible alternative to abandoning the idea of an alignment and doing what a number of other clubs are doing and going alone - possibly to Prahran or to Punt Road to share with Richmond.

I agree Casey is a soulless place. And you're dead right in that when Springvale went to Casey there was naturally little if any local support and it would seem not much support has transferred from Springvale. Competing with a strong local club is an issue but many people support both local and AFL footy.

Chris Connolly was the main facilitator for Casey and he worked very hard to establish links with that community. I don't know what is being done now. But reality is you're selling a concept and when the concept is to go to a soulless ground where you can't see much and the footy is often poor because of the windswept site you're making your job much harder than it should be.

Prahran would be great Redleg and I'd like to see us comsider the Richmond Footy Ground. I don't know if the MFC has any information and I was all for giving Cranbourne a go but perhaps it's time to reassess the idea of playing at Casey. Pity we have a 20 year lease. That seems madness in retrospect.

[Bonkers 994]

Sorry Jack but that is a bad idea. Changing the name to cranbourne or associating with only cranbourne will cause them to lose following from other areas. There are many strong junior & senior clubs in the area including narre warren, berwick, hallam, hampton park, endeavour hills, lynbrook etc etc. The problem is that all areas associate with their own local teams & not so much with Casey. Perhaps the scorpions need to have a bigger presence at the local clubs & start using these local clubs as a feeder system. I don't think there is a problem with the overall structure but more the way they interact with the local community.

Another issue is that springvale folded & became casey. Casey is not the local football team. As you know before that we had the dandenong redlegs who folded. I think you will find most locals would identify more with the redlegs than casey or springvale. Perhaps they should rebrand themselves as the redlegs or merge with the dandenong stingrays as this is where all the local talent ends up playing their junior footy. There is a disconnect between junior footy & casey. I think aligning themselves with the stingrays would be a good idea & create a closer bond with junior footy.

[CBDees 3,167]

I would personally love it if we played at Prahran. I would go to most of the home games there.

I would personally love it if we moved to Punt Road and took over the Richmond Ground. After all, the Punt Road Oval is in the City of Melbourne [and was never in Richmond]. Why don't we do a take-over and let them relocate to the Kevin Bartlett Oval [in Richmond]? That seems a good deal to me, especially as we let them play their Senior (AFL) games at the MCG, our traditional home ground ever since we started life as the Melbourne Cricket Club Football Club (MCCFC)

[Go the Biff 3,420]

Sorry Jack but that is a bad idea. Changing the name to cranbourne or associating with only cranbourne will cause them to ...........

G'day Bonkers. What's your thoughts on dispensing with the Scorpions name. If little of Springvale remains, would rebranding as Casey Demons make a statement that we are Casey, not Springvale and we are here for the long haul ?

Agree on the problems competing with local clubs. Wondering if an initiative like incorporating a lightning premiership as part of the locals pre-season practice match schedule could be an idea. The Casey Cup with a few grand to the winning club.

You could do something similar at junior level. Also have a program where junior teams are invited to train alongside Casey. And yes - embrace the Dandy & Gippy TAC teams.There are plenty of ways to foster the relationships but it needs co-ordination & passion

Chris Connolly was a huge loss to the alignment

And BB's right. A fast-growing forest needs to be planted aroung the outside of the ground ASAP. There is no protection from the wind apart from the grandstand

[Bonkers 994]

G'day Bonkers. What's your thoughts on dispensing with the Scorpions name. If little of Springvale remains, would rebranding as Casey Demons make a statement that we are Casey, not Springvale and we are here for the long haul ?

Agree on the problems competing with local clubs. Wondering if an initiative like incorporating a lightning premiership as part of the locals pre-season practice match schedule could be an idea. The Casey Cup with a few grand to the winning club.

You could do something similar at junior level. Also have a program where junior teams are invited to train alongside Casey. And yes - embrace the Dandy & Gippy TAC teams.There are plenty of ways to foster the relationships but it needs co-ordination & passion

Chris Connolly was a huge loss to the alignment

And BB's right. A fast-growing forest needs to be planted aroung the outside of the ground ASAP. There is no protection from the wind apart from the grandstand

How are ya GTB? Well the Scorpions name was from the previous Springvale football club. In my opinion they should do whatever it takes to make it work in the area. If that means a re-branding to Casey Demons so be it. However I don't think the naming is the real issue.

Local competitions would be a good idea. I know that when I was a junior we had similar lightning premiership Under 9's but it was through the DDJFL (Dandenong Districts Junior Football League). Casey could endeavour to do the same on the grounds they have available at Casey Fields if available.

I think a large issue is that Casey is standing alone & apart from the junior clubs. Once a youth prospect gets to around 18 they would be just as likely to leave their junior club & to try out with say Box Hill, Frankston or Sandringham as they would with Casey. I think they should pay some close attention to this & make it evident that there is a pathway to develop through playing at Casey & that they have just as good prospects there than anywhere else. Perhaps this is something both Casey & Melbourne could put some money into.

An important thing to remember is there are so many kids in the area. I know through a friend that takes their kid to Auskick that they didn't bother taking their kid to Casey fields for Auskick as there was something like 400 kids participating & it was too over crowded. Too many kids participate & it effected how their own child participated in Auskick. They had to take their child to Narre Warren where there were less numbers. There are another 3 Auskick clinics in Cranbourne so I guess you can get an idea of the growth in the area & why it is in my opinion really important for Casey & the MFC to work on this relationship. We have a small supporter base in numbers & we will only improve this by doing similar to what Hawthorn did in the 80's - 90's. They built relationships in the Sth East & focused in on the growth areas & winning flags helped a lot of course.

I think for the alignment to work, Casey & MFC need to be likeable. I know that sounds simplistic but that is the reality of it. The club has been spending a lot of time in the local schools, perhaps they need to start looking at doing the same at the local footy clubs. They have to continue building relationships with all stakeholders, actively participate in the community, schools, local footy & start to play some football that people want to watch.

[DeeSpencer 25,692]

When I first went to Casey fields 5 years ago there were no houses around it. It seemed even further out than could be imagined. It was Cranbourne plus some. It's now surrounded by houses. That has to be one positive.

Yet it still is a stadium all by itself that requires driving to. You'd never accidentally just lob at Casey fields for a Scorps game unless you lived in one of the houses next door. Even the ground itself is set back across the train line from the main road.

How Casey offer a product that is popular with locals besides from just players friends and families and how MFC fans get involved might take 2 different initiatives. Good attractive footy is definitely a start.

I don't think you can undersell just how much improvement could come if you managed to shield some of the wind. Windy footy is just crap to watch.

The suggestion to build small forests around the ground (or particularly at either end as the grandstands do shield the wings a bit) can not be taken lightly. I'd drop in a giant concrete wall at either end and paint a scorpion on one end and a demon on the other.

Edit: In fact it would probably be smarter to just invest in a few (or few dozen) of these bad boys

http://www.networld-sports.co.uk/tennis-sports-equipment/tennis-windbreaks/tennis-windbreak-screens.html

[MadAsHell 4,212]

The point you make about the conditions and amenities at Casey Fields is well known and documented but these things apply in the case of many outer suburban venues and yet the clubs that use them (often at much lower levels) can still attract good crowds for local matches.

I think the problems at Casey go much further. The Scorpions are a local club that was uprooted a decade ago from Springvale where they had a ground that had become unsuited to VFL competition and in addition was situated in an area that had undergone substantial demographic change and therefore had a declining supporter base for our footy. For some reason, the local community at Cranbourne hasn't totally embraced the club.

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or upsetting anybody's sensibilities because I'm not a local but my casual observation of the situation is that perhaps the identification with "Casey" rather than "Cranbourne" is one of the problems.

The City of Casey was formed during the Kennett years and is an amalgam of the old Cranbourne and Berwick municipalities. The two areas are cheese and chalk in many respects and Casey is still more resonant of the northern part of the municipality which is where the name came from in the first place. I get the feeling therefore that the Cranbourne locals aren't fully enamoured with the Casey identity yet - the municipal offices are at Fountain Gate where the old Berwick Shire offices are situated while the old Cranbourne Shire offices were closed years ago and are now used for other purposes. So there's a possible disconnect between the folk at Cranbourne and the concept of Casey where the power base seems to be elsewhere.

In addition, there's the Cranbourne Football Club which is a strong club with lots of depth and tradition and a base going all the way down to the junior ranks which therefore gives it an enormous foothold in the local community and from which the Casey Scorpions stand apart.

I would like to hear from the locals but my theory is that for a football club to work in this area, it needs to have a heart and soul. A closer connection to the local name and the local football club might do the trick. Perhaps some sort of alignment between the two that sees the club become the Cranbourne Demons at VFL senior and development team level and to retain the Cranbourne Eagles identity at local and junior levels.

I realise this is probably a highly sensitive area. On the one hand, it would be breaking tradition with the old Springvale but from what I see, much of that has been lost and the club isn't attracting supporters or dollars from that part of the world and without those things, it will never flourish. By ditching the Casey name, it might also get some noses out of joint from the northern part of the municipality while traditionalists from the local Cranbourne club and those associated with other clubs in the area might not be comfortable either.

I've put it out there as an idea and as a possible alternative to abandoning the idea of an alignment and doing what a number of other clubs are doing and going alone - possibly to Prahran or to Punt Road to share with Richmond.

I would personally love it if we moved to Punt Road and took over the Richmond Ground. After all, the Punt Road Oval is in the City of Melbourne [and was never in Richmond]. Why don't we do a take-over and let them relocate to the Kevin Bartlett Oval [in Richmond]? That seems a good deal to me, especially as we let them play their Senior (AFL) games at the MCG, our traditional home ground ever since we started life as the Melbourne Cricket Club Football Club (MCCFC)

I know we made a profit in 2014, but I've said it before in other threads about the possibility of Melbourne playing their VFL team out at Punt Rd,

I don't know where we're going to find the money to pay Richmond to let us use their ground let alone take over Punt Rd!

WJ's suggestion about Prahran would be a little more realistic, or Victoria Park, seeing as it's not owned by Collingwood anymore. But personally I'm now living in one of the houses right next to Casey Fields, a 5 min walk from the ground. So I hope the Dees stay here for the next 20 years plus!

[Go the Biff 3,420]

How are ya GTB? Well the Scorpions name was from the previous Springvale football club. In my opinion they should do whatever it takes......

Thanks mate. Appreciate the response. Wouldn't mind hearing KC from Casy's views when he next drops in on the thread