With the Lions beating GC today, and given the games we have coming up, the wooden spoon is a big chance now. My question is though how upset will you be if that happens?

I think it's fair to say we've improved this year and have uncovered some real talent, we have also had several close losses and some games that we were in but didn't finish it off. So I'm going through my head and deciding whether it'll [censored] me off if it happens. For the record this has nothing to do with draft picks.

Bottom line is I'd like to avoid it so we must beat GWS and the Lions, I want to win those badly.

With the Lions beating GC today, and given the games we have coming up, the wooden spoon is a big chance now. My question is though how upset will you be if that happens?

I think it's fair to say we've improved this year and have uncovered some real talent, we have also had several close losses and some games that we were in but didn't finish it off. So I'm going through my head and deciding whether it'll [censored] me off if it happens. For the record this has nothing to do with draft picks.

Bottom line is I'd like to avoid it so we must beat GWS and the Lions, I want to win those badly.

I just wouldn't be able to voice the pain I felt if we finished bottom again.

We've obviously improved on field but at the end of the day (and season) it's about points, wins and ladder position. And if we haven't improved in that respect I'll be bloody seething.

Very, would put in the back of the players minds that we still aren't climbing the ladder, picks 1 and 2 give us some trade currency to work with though

The "if" is more likely to be when Pâtés.

But what is the difference between last and third last.

Not a lot in my view

A lot of our senior players are average.

Look at tonights game.

If I had the confidence we could recruit as well as the Sainters or even the Pies when they bottomed out , I wouldn"t mind at all .

Depends on how we round out the season, really. If the other teams happen to pluck a few more wins out of their rear ends and top us, then that's just bad luck. If it coincides with us playing limp footy, that would be upsetting.

Still think there is no chance of us finishing last though.

I just wouldn't be able to voice the pain I felt if we finished bottom again.

We've obviously improved on field but at the end of the day (and season) it's about points, wins and ladder position. And if we haven't improved in that respect I'll be bloody seething.

It's about points, wins, and ladder position when you have a good team trying to reach finals.

When you are jockeying for 16th...

WGAF.

We got back on the horse last week with some good footy, I am not about to cry into my beer because the Lions and the Saints have had a couple good wins.

The Lions will be a good game with them in some good form and we should beat GWS at the G, but I am more interested in how we go against Hawthorn, WCE over there, and bloody NM in the last round.

It's about points, wins, and ladder position when you have a good team trying to reach finals.

When you are jockeying for 16th...

WGAF.

We got back on the horse last week with some good footy, I am not about to cry into my beer because the Lions and the Saints have had a couple good wins.

The Lions will be a good game with them in some good form and we should beat GWS at the G, but I am more interested in how we go against Hawthorn, WCE over there, and bloody NM in the last round.

Exactly. Ladder position is much a function of other clubs form as it is our own. I'll be focusing on our own form, not whether or not St Kilda can pluck a win or two from nowhere to pass us on the ladder.

Personally I would hate another spoon. Sick of the club not being taken seriously and a spoon won't help our cause.

I voted 6 as I am just tipping over the point of neutrality.

IGAF to the extent that a spoon should be avoided if at all possible. The number of spoons is often quoted when judging a club's woefulness and we have our fair share of recent times. I do not want another one.

However, as far as actually measuring progress, as long as we remain competitive then it doesn't detract too much from progress made thus far. The main annoyance will come from the lost opportunities.

I'm certainly not in the camp that wins don't matter. They do. Especially for this group.

It will be bad for membership if we finish last again.

Die-hard Demons like us appreciate the improvements that have come this year, but for most of the punters who have yet to sign up and don't follow the footy media religiously, they're far more likely to view 2014 as just another sh*t season indistinguishable from the previous 7, than as a stepping stone to recovery.

If we pick up the spoon this year, we can kiss goodbye to 40k membership.

So we finish bottom, campaign for a PP again on the basis of the worst run in the history of the game (I suspect we'll have surpassed Fitzroy by then), possibly have Frawley walk out on us for a long-term contract and where does that leave us? We have PP#1, pick 2 for finishing last and possibly pick 3 for Frawley (pick after our first round pick). Trade pick 2 or 3 for more quality experience, draft another tall and a quality mid prospect and off we go.

It will be bad for membership if we finish last again.

Die-hard Demons like us appreciate the improvements that have come this year, but for most of the punters who have yet to sign up and don't follow the footy media religiously, they're far more likely to view 2014 as just another sh*t season indistinguishable from the previous 7, than as a stepping stone to recovery.

If we pick up the spoon this year, we can kiss goodbye to 40k membership.

Also a valid point.

Also a valid point.

Surely the only really important valid point is are we good enough to avoid last place?

The next few weeks will determine how good a large number of our list really are.

Sadly I don't think much of them.

But we will soon see if they are better than I think.

Depends on how we round out the season, really. If the other teams happen to pluck a few more wins out of their rear ends and top us, then that's just bad luck. If it coincides with us playing limp footy, that would be upsetting.

Still think there is no chance of us finishing last though.

Pretty much sums up how I'm feeling Nasher. While the Lions played well today I still think we can roll them if we play like we did a week ago, and we still have a home game against GWS as well. If we finish the season playing good footy then I'll be happy either way.

Might go better than some expect, if by some chance Hogan & Cross get a run and level of improvement continues.

I am used to us finishing at the bottom or near the bottom so either way I am over it.

Does anyone honestly think that any of the Pies, Blues, Dons or Tigers fans would be happy about "winning" the wooden spoon?

The "spoon" might give Frawley a good enough reason to take off and what about the effects on membership, sponsorship, reserved seating sales, foundation heroes, the corporate dollar, Auskick numbers, prime time TV slots, our fixture in general and the effects on the supporter group? No thanks.

Also, we need to attract some A grade talent to the club by way of trades and/or free agency. We'd have trouble getting a 2nd glance from a prospective star with another spoon attached to our name ... and do we really want to burden another kid with the no.1 draft pick next to his name?

We've come so far in terms of restoring pride and respectability - we need to finish the season off well. We just got to within a few points of a top 4 side away from home just last week - just imagine how we'd be all feeling if we'd got over the line?

A lot of us here are rusted on. We won't be adversely effected one way or the other. However, we need new members and we need a number of our lapsed members to return. Forget 40,000 members - we need to have an aim of 50,000+ members. Another spoon would impede our progress.

It will be bad for membership if we finish last again.

Die-hard Demons like us appreciate the improvements that have come this year, but for most of the punters who have yet to sign up and don't follow the footy media religiously, they're far more likely to view 2014 as just another sh*t season indistinguishable from the previous 7, than as a stepping stone to recovery.

If we pick up the spoon this year, we can kiss goodbye to 40k membership.

That is an excellent point and one that definitely shouldn't be underestimated. We still need to make ourselves marketable and finishing bottom will make that a very tough assignment.

We must avoid it at all costs.
The last time when we decided that failure was acceptable, it set our club back a good five years.
That must never happen again.
If it does happen, it must burn and smart in the collective consciousness of every listed player.

With the Lions beating GC today, and given the games we have coming up, the wooden spoon is a big chance now. My question is though how upset will you be if that happens?

I think it's fair to say we've improved this year and have uncovered some real talent, we have also had several close losses and some games that we were in but didn't finish it off. So I'm going through my head and deciding whether it'll [censored] me off if it happens. For the record this has nothing to do with draft picks.

Bottom line is I'd like to avoid it so we must beat GWS and the Lions, I want to win those badly.

We won't. but 2nd Bot is a consideration.

http://www.afl.com.au/ladder/ladder-predictor

Does anyone honestly think that any of the Pies, Blues, Dons or Tigers fans would be happy about "winning" the wooden spoon?

The "spoon" might give Frawley a good enough reason to take off and what about the effects on membership, sponsorship, reserved seating sales, foundation heroes, the corporate dollar, Auskick numbers, prime time TV slots, our fixture in general and the effects on the supporter group? No thanks.

Also, we need to attract some A grade talent to the club by way of trades and/or free agency. We'd have trouble getting a 2nd glance from a prospective star with another spoon attached to our name ... and do we really want to burden another kid with the no.1 draft pick next to his name?

We've come so far in terms of restoring pride and respectability - we need to finish the season off well. We just got to within a few points of a top 4 side away from home just last week - just imagine how we'd be all feeling if we'd got over the line?

A lot of us here are rusted on. We won't be adversely effected one way or the other. However, we need new members and we need a number of our lapsed members to return. Forget 40,000 members - we need to have a aim of 50,000+ members. Another spoon would impede our progress.

You've sold me 'Macca', I was starting to feel a bit ambivalent again.

I've seen enough improvement to know, this team wont be down here for much longer... The direction has been set...

If we aren't in the hunt for finals, then i don't care where we finish... 18, 12, 9... May as well finish last... After 7 years going on 8, its nothing new really... Its hard to feel upset if it happens all the time... Regardless of our position at the end of the year, I'll still be a demon and I'll still hope that next year is the year... Because dreams are all i have...

I honestly don't think it makes any difference. We are far more competitive. Our percentage is a lot better than last year and that was Roosy's goal.

Honestly all it does is solidify our request for a priority pick. The whole AFL community knows Roos is an outstanding coach. It proves we don't have the cattle. The only concern is Frawleys departure will mask it because it'll give us 1 and 2 anyways.