Rohan Welsh

[Satyriconhome 10,091]

Fair dinkum Satry you must be joking. Your posts on this matter are so hypocritical that i can only conclude you are deliberately baiting other posters ie trolling. I simply do not believe you really think it is ok for Welsh to publicly slag of players, particularly given your hyper sensitivity to any criticism of players on this site.

I can only conclude you are trying to wind people up (ie trolling), something you have repeatedly admitted to enjoying. It makes it hard to take your views seriously, which is a shame because some of your posts can be quite insightful and your training reports are mostly enjoyable (though at times grating in a look at me kind of a way).

I have previously said i was going to put you on ignore but have not done so. I'm going to rectify that now as your bad is outweighing your good and i dislike trolls. I think i'll just choose to view your training reports and save myself the angst of reading posts like the ones littered through this tread.

Ciao baby

No chap not joking, true I bait the less accommodating now and again, it is not trolling, I never have to resort to personal insults

I have no problem with Welsh's actions

I watched the game at Coburg, live, I listened to the 1/4 and 3/4 time, I have talked to the players previously, I was disgusted by the 'performance' in the second half

Don't read the training reports if they impact you, it is never about me, just can't help myself sometimes

I am Liverpudlian, in my 60's and have led a varied, exciting and interesting life, I don't need people to like me old chap,

[Slartibartfast 16,131]

What I object to, and have since the start, it the public nature of the comments. I'm trying to remember the last coach that publicly individualized about a players poor form in the way Welsh has about Georgio.

Say it in house, that's fine, but we need to be united in public.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

The only thing that interests me is whether the MFC is happy with the Casey arrangement and Welsh's coaching. If not, it needs to be fixed; if so, that's good enough for me.

[demon3165 2,339]

Machsy has put his head above the parapet so now I want an explanation as to who the inflamed, if it is just posters on here, then no harm done, I have spoken to some of the players, you can tell a couple "didn't really appreciate it", but if they want a career they have to suck it up and get on with it, most knew where he was coming from

As far as I can tell the Club are cool with it, we will see at season's end

Thats code for go for it RW, what is PR's mantra actions, play your role, when it's your turn to go go seems some in the twos might think it only applies to the AFL side lets see how they go next match hey.

[Satyriconhome 10,091]

The only thing that interests me is whether the MFC is happy with the Casey arrangement and Welsh's coaching. If not, it needs to be fixed; if so, that's good enough for me.

Exactly what I have been saying as well, not up to us, if he gets the elbow any time soon then obviously the Club is not happy, if he stays they are cool with it, I personally don't have a problem with it

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

Sooner we can have our own stand alone Reserve side the better.

Too much compromise at present. For Senior players fighting for a spot in an improving MFC team, losing to Coburg is totally unnacceptable on many levels.

I don't blame Welsh for reading the riot act at all.

Big trade period at years end looms. Clearing out players just not up to it.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I never like when any individual abdicates from responsibility in any organisation and places all blame on other parties.

Footy is a team game, all share in the blame and the plaudits, coach included.

I don't like it.

[Akum 2,660]

I think there's a consistent message throughout the whole coaching panel, from Roos through Allison & Miller to Welsh. You MUST do the non-negotiables, which are mostly "defensive transition" & two-way running, and to a lesser extent ball use and decision-making. And you'd think that these areas are where the AFL professionals would have it all over the VFL amateurs. You get support if you put in the effort, but you must put in the effort.

We're halfway through the season. These guys have, what, 8 games to save themselves from being delisted. Their AFL careers are on the line here. It couldn't be any clearer what they have to do to stay on the list next year. They can't say they haven't been warned, or that they don't know what's required of them. Yet the effort is still missing.

If Allison's been to each of them individually and asked them & told them why they're not in the firsts, that's consistent with Roos' overall approach, which permeates the whole club. I'm sure it's been done over and over behind closed doors. The match reviews are the iron fist in the velvet glove. But if they're not having an effect, what do you do?

Having said that, it's unfortunate that he singled out Georgiou. If Georgiou gave away even 3 goals, then it's completely out of character, and it sounds to me like he played too soon after being concussed. But I don't think Georiou's the main target anyway - the ones who are hanging by a thread are Tapscott (who was also singled out), Blease & Strauss, who have more than enough ability to play AFL, but they're not making it happen.

[Satyriconhome 10,091]

I think there's a consistent message throughout the whole coaching panel, from Roos through Allison & Miller to Welsh. You MUST do the non-negotiables, which are mostly "defensive transition" & two-way running, and to a lesser extent ball use and decision-making. And you'd think that these areas are where the AFL professionals would have it all over the VFL amateurs. You get support if you put in the effort, but you must put in the effort.

We're halfway through the season. These guys have, what, 8 games to save themselves from being delisted. Their AFL careers are on the line here. It couldn't be any clearer what they have to do to stay on the list next year. They can't say they haven't been warned, or that they don't know what's required of them. Yet the effort is still missing.

If Allison's been to each of them individually and asked them & told them why they're not in the firsts, that's consistent with Roos' overall approach, which permeates the whole club. I'm sure it's been done over and over behind closed doors. The match reviews are the iron fist in the velvet glove. But if they're not having an effect, what do you do?

Having said that, it's unfortunate that he singled out Georgiou. If Georgiou gave away even 3 goals, then it's completely out of character, and it sounds to me like he played too soon after being concussed. But I don't think Georiou's the main target anyway - the ones who are hanging by a thread are Tapscott (who was also singled out), Blease & Strauss, who have more than enough ability to play AFL, but they're not making it happen.

No he'd played the week before as well, he just had a very poor game, got towelled, won't be the first and not the last, that being said he did get a couple of suicidal handball receives that left him with nowhere to go and he coughed the ball up for goals

Edited May 27, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[nutbean 8,837]

Having seen the Cats culture up close and now seeing Roos come in and begin to turn around a club that had an atrocious culture, the common thread is a constructive supportive coaching department with the ability to communicate clearly.

Geelong has that at AFL level and VFL level, and maybe that's because try control their VFL side.

At Casey we have less control, but I can tell you now that the way Welsh has handled this recent loss is not conducive to a good response.

In the short term it may or may not provoke a reaction from the players, but in the long term it will result in a negative effect on the playing group.

I was formerly a support of the "Neeld method" but I have come to see the error of my ways.

Purely by observing successful cultures and successful culture creators, it is evident that Welsh's approach was poor.

I hope he corrects this going forward.

Correct - no problem with giving a clear message but it is how the message is delivered. Even though Allison's assessments are also highly critical - his delivery and Welsh's delivery are polar opposites.

[nutbean 8,837]

I think there's a consistent message throughout the whole coaching panel, from Roos through Allison & Miller to Welsh. You MUST do the non-negotiables, which are mostly "defensive transition" & two-way running, and to a lesser extent ball use and decision-making. And you'd think that these areas are where the AFL professionals would have it all over the VFL amateurs. You get support if you put in the effort, but you must put in the effort.

We're halfway through the season. These guys have, what, 8 games to save themselves from being delisted. Their AFL careers are on the line here. It couldn't be any clearer what they have to do to stay on the list next year. They can't say they haven't been warned, or that they don't know what's required of them. Yet the effort is still missing.

If Allison's been to each of them individually and asked them & told them why they're not in the firsts, that's consistent with Roos' overall approach, which permeates the whole club. I'm sure it's been done over and over behind closed doors. The match reviews are the iron fist in the velvet glove. But if they're not having an effect, what do you do?

Having said that, it's unfortunate that he singled out Georgiou. If Georgiou gave away even 3 goals, then it's completely out of character, and it sounds to me like he played too soon after being concussed. But I don't think Georiou's the main target anyway - the ones who are hanging by a thread are Tapscott (who was also singled out), Blease & Strauss, who have more than enough ability to play AFL, but they're not making it happen.

I see a contradiction - you said there is a consistent message - yet you then say it is unfortunate that he singled out Georgiou.

Therein lies the problem - can you imagine the same words coming out Roos mouth ? Even Allison who is a lot more in your face - doesnt speak like that.

I just think back to Roos response to the media when he took Watts and Howe aside at 3/4 time and gave them what could only be described as a spray - remember what Roos said - that is professionally handling a situation.

[Tatu 416]

Who is this bloke again?

he's the guy who has taken a top 3 Casey side and turned them into a disaster...

[Machsy 2,858]

Come to think of it, Welsh was Casey coach for the first time in 2013, no?

And following his first year as senior coach, there was a mass exodus of experienced senior VFL players, requiring a heavy influx of fresh-from-TAC-cup names.

Curious...

[Guest]

Come to think of it, Welsh was Casey coach for the first time in 2013, no?

And following his first year as senior coach, there was a mass exodus of experienced senior VFL players, requiring a heavy influx of fresh-from-TAC-cup names.

Curious...

Maybe Neeldy was sharing his bottle of angry pills with him?

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

Come to think of it, Welsh was Casey coach for the first time in 2013, no?

And following his first year as senior coach, there was a mass exodus of experienced senior VFL players, requiring a heavy influx of fresh-from-TAC-cup names.

Curious...

Think money is the main reason behind that. Besides Troy Davis and Panozza who did Casey sign who would've cost much at all?

A coaches reputation might be responsible for some leaving but others will take their place if the money is there I'm sure.

That's the reality for Casey this year. Their season rides almost exclusive with the MFC guys. Plus we've lost Clark. Lost Trengove for the year. Hogan won't be ready for a while.

Started the year with 44 (I don't count Westrupp), down now to 42, take out the 22-24 for MFC games and you're at 18-20, always have at least 5 or more other injuries and it's down to not more than a dozen MFC guys who will mostly be the better players in the team.

And when some of them are chasing kicks in desperate moves to save their careers the team is hard pressed to win many games.

[Machsy 2,858]

"AFL players perform better in supportive club environment"

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/nathan-buckley-says-players-need-worklife-balance-as-aflpa-finds-afl-players-perform-better-in-supportive-club-environment/story-fndv8g1a-1226933617865

Can someone forward this to Rohan Welsh?

Can he read?

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think to some extent we are paying for the residue of the Neeld regime. The slack practices, poor coaching and simply dumb behavior of that regime will take a long time to be expunged from some players. I talk specifically of Tapscott, Mckenzie, Strauss, Nicholson, Bleese. All of these players have high levels of natural ability but they were taught badly at that time, but in an environment of blame with none of the nurturing which Roos exhibits in spades. This I think is the major difference with Welsh and Roos. Welsh has many of the personal behaviors of Neeld, although technically he is trying to implement the Roos gameplan. These players I suspect are feeling very unappreciated down at Casey, and it is not only because they are not playing in the ones. The sooner we create the Casey Demons where it is fully integrated into the MFC the better, and we appoint one of the full time assistants as permanent coach there the better. Good initial job for Lingy I would have thought. Give him a job where he is fully accountable, but also within the Roos structure where he can also listen and learn. This is now an urgent issue. We will lose several more first round draft picks (Strauss, Tappscott, Bleese) if we do not correct this and soon.,

I think I would be inclined to sack Welsh now and replace him with maybe Allison or Miller until the end of the season in order to show the club is aware of what goes on, and is determined to see the cultural change at Casey that the Roos regime demands.

[Go the Biff 3,212]

Sooner we can have our own stand alone Reserve side the better.

Too much compromise at present. For Senior players fighting for a spot in an improving MFC team, losing to Coburg is totally unnacceptable on many levels.

I don't blame Welsh for reading the riot act at all.

Big trade period at years end looms. Clearing out players just not up to it.

That's a copout. It's got less to do with the name & more to do with how you manage it.

I don't hear too many Hawk fans jumping up & down & screaming for their own "standalone" seconds team

Think money is the main reason behind that. Besides Troy Davis and Panozza who did Casey sign who would've cost much at all?

I believe that's correct. Casey was just about skint and couldn't afford to offer much, relying on the Gippsland fringe to bolster their playing stocks. For blokes who are not looking at the VFL as a pathway to AFL, there's significant competition from not only other VFL clubs but the next level down as well. Plenty of clubs in the Southern, Eastern, Northern (old Diamond Valley), EDFL and Western leagues have cash to lure players with. Not to mention some of the country leagues. It's an attractive secondary income stream but it only lasts for so long. If a club such as Noble Park for example offered better match payments than Casey, it's gotta be tempting

I think to some extent we are paying for the residue of the Neeld regime. The slack practices, poor coaching and simply dumb behavior of that regime will take a long time to be expunged from some players. I talk specifically of Tapscott, Mckenzie, Strauss, Nicholson, Bleese. All of these players have high levels of natural ability but they were taught badly at that time, but in an environment of blame with none of the nurturing which Roos exhibits in spades. This I think is the major difference with Welsh and Roos. Welsh has many of the personal behaviors of Neeld, although technically he is trying to implement the Roos gameplan. These players I suspect are feeling very unappreciated down at Casey, and it is not only because they are not playing in the ones. The sooner we create the Casey Demons where it is fully integrated into the MFC the better, and we appoint one of the full time assistants as permanent coach there the better. Good initial job for Lingy I would have thought. Give him a job where he is fully accountable, but also within the Roos structure where he can also listen and learn. This is now an urgent issue. We will lose several more first round draft picks (Strauss, Tappscott, Bleese) if we do not correct this and soon.,

I think I would be inclined to sack Welsh now and replace him with maybe Allison or Miller until the end of the season in order to show the club is aware of what goes on, and is determined to see the cultural change at Casey that the Roos regime demands.

You don't mind drawing the odd long bow do you !

[nutbean 8,837]

I know you need to practice what you are taught at training during games and you need the a Casey coach on the same page as Roos but you look at the criticisms of Allison of the players and there are two consistent themes - poor disposal and not enough respect given to defense. Doesnt matter what club or what coach we are talking about - they would all be preaching the same message.

The one thing I have learned from Neeld vs Roos - is I would think that both coaches are and were saying 95% the same thing. The difference is how it was said - how messages and learnings are delivered. The Neeld/Roos message wouldn't be all that different. You can see though that the players are hearing the Roos messages and enjoying an environment where they can deliver on his messages - Neeld messages - weren't heard and werent acted on - it appears his messages and the environment became toxic

.My problem with Welsh is the very limited window we have to see his player management (ie comments in the media) remind me of last years coach.

[binman 39,625]

That's a copout. It's got less to do with the name & more to do with how you manage it.

I don't hear too many Hawk fans jumping up & down & screaming for their own "standalone" seconds team

Both points are accurate. Bolton bought into the Clarkson game plan and apparently has very similar coaching philosophies. According to one article i read today about Bolton steeping up he really helped forge a better working connection between the two sides, implying it wasn't great beforehand.

So its's possible for an affiliated club situation to work but as you note it has to be managed effectively. However i suspect that is easier said than done given there are two separate boards, staff, coaching teams etc. Having our own team would be far better IMO.

Edited May 28, 2014 by binman

[Satyriconhome 10,091]

Come to think of it, Welsh was Casey coach for the first time in 2013, no?

And following his first year as senior coach, there was a mass exodus of experienced senior VFL players, requiring a heavy influx of fresh-from-TAC-cup names.

Curious...

Oh you mean they were offered better deals elsewhere, and decided to take them, the captain stayed, and so did 2 of the top finishers from Casey players B & F, or do you have an issue with that as well, you don't let facts get in the way of your conspiracy theories do you

[Machsy 2,858]

You'll find an excuse to defend anything that happens to the club, Casey or MFC.

Fact is, the players don't respond to his bully boy tactics.

Simple solution: sack welsh, move on.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

Think money is the main reason behind that. Besides Troy Davis and Panozza who did Casey sign who would've cost much at all?

A coaches reputation might be responsible for some leaving but others will take their place if the money is there I'm sure.

That's the reality for Casey this year. Their season rides almost exclusive with the MFC guys. Plus we've lost Clark. Lost Trengove for the year. Hogan won't be ready for a while.

Started the year with 44 (I don't count Westrupp), down now to 42, take out the 22-24 for MFC games and you're at 18-20, always have at least 5 or more other injuries and it's down to not more than a dozen MFC guys who will mostly be the better players in the team.

And when some of them are chasing kicks in desperate moves to save their careers the team is hard pressed to win many games.

And it appears some are taking on roles they are not necessarily familiar with as part of a learning exercise.

We have to stop thinking about Casey's success purely in 'win/loss' terms and think about it as a development squad for the MFC. As much as I want Casey to win, in reality Casey losing every game is a cost I'm prepared to put up with if it results in ongoing improvements to the depth of the MFC squad.

[binman 39,625]

And it appears some are taking on roles they are not necessarily familiar with as part of a learning exercise.

We have to stop thinking about Casey's success purely in 'win/loss' terms and think about it as a development squad for the MFC. As much as I want Casey to win, in reality Casey losing every game is a cost I'm prepared to put up with if it results in ongoing improvements to the depth of the MFC squad.

Herein lies the rub. They are not a development squad for the MFC - they are a stand alone football team that has an affiliation with the MFC. I assume their board, fans and coach want to win as many games as possible and ultimately flag. And fair enough. I doubt that lot would be prepared to lose every game if it meant an improved MFC. It is why we need a stand alone team.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

Well said, Binman. My personal preference is for us to absorb Casey and change the name of the club to Casey Demons. Whether it changes its name eventually to Melbourne Demons is a longer term matter of little consequence other than branding. What matters is having control over the development and treatment of listed MFC players.