Wooden spoon possible :(

[daisycutter 29,605]

You won't get an arguement from me dc.

I have close to the same opinion.

You can add reduced membership, reduced Attendances and more stories on our relevance in the competition.

true and those factors will test the resolution of the club next year

in some respects next year could be harder to take than this year (depending on a few intangibles)

[dee-luded 2,959]

I would like to hope so (mainly so we can trade for a good mid) but Demonland has begun to think that even if we dont finish last the AFL are just going to hand us pick 1.

We shouldn't just assume this because it can only end badly (e.g. we get a pp at the end of round 2).

Is there any basis behind this idea we are getting pick 1?

I think the AFL want the GWS to have Pick 1. they are desperate for some maturity to help lead them... pick 1 allows them to hunt a marquee player... which they will splash the cash...

Lets just hope they are after a different type,, than what we're after?

[Ted Lasso 19,356]

I think the AFL want the GWS to have Pick 1. they are desperate for some maturity to help lead them... pick 1 allows them to hunt a marquee player... which they will splash the cash...

Lets just hope they are after a different type,, than what we're after?

We are a basket case and they're right in the mix for Buddy, they have the money to splash that they don't really need pick 1, however pick 1 would go a huge way to improving us next year, so it will really be a statement of which is the priority team for them.

[beelzebub 23,313]

true and those factors will test the resolution of the club next year

in some respects next year could be harder to take than this year (depending on a few intangibles)

I hope not

we would be heading for our own mini armageddon if that were the case.

I feel pretty confident we've bottomed out and are slowly arising. its not showing on the field and wont til next season. Cant even predict too many wins but it will be the nature of the improved contest to start with upon which to build belief.

It wont be worse...It wont be........Hope it wont be lol

[dee-luded 2,959]

We are a basket case and they're right in the mix for Buddy, they have the money to splash that they don't really need pick 1, however pick 1 would go a huge way to improving us next year, so it will really be a statement of which is the priority team for them.

Yes, but the AFL are in a dilemma, the Cats got 2 picks compensation for GAjnr... the Hawks & their supporters will be are understandably ropable, if they get naught for Buddy, rules or no rules...

natural justice says to me they deserve compensation if they lose Buddy... & GWS should have to pay for such a privilage.

... the trouble is if the Hawks get the number 1 pick, they may take the best Mid with it. IMO they need gun Mids, more than Power Forwards atmo.

But: if we finish bottom, & GWS then get pick 2,,, & they also have a mid 1st Rnd compensation pick available, that may just suit all parties.

[Earl Hood 6,082]

Yes, but the AFL are in a dilemma, the Cats got 2 picks compensation for GAjnr... the Hawks & their supporters will be are understandably ropable, if they get naught for Buddy, rules or no rules...

natural justice says to me they deserve compensation if they lose Buddy... & GWS should have to pay for such a privilage.

... the trouble is if the Hawks get the number 1 pick, they may take the best Mid with it. IMO they need gun Mids, more than Power Forwards atmo.

But: if we finish bottom, & GWS then get pick 2,,, & they also have a mid 1st Rnd compensation pick available, that may just suit all parties.

There is a Different set of rules operating here. Geelong got compensation for GA Junior as we did for Scully under the rules set up for the new clubs rights to raid established clubs. Free agency is a different beast, so far the AFL hasn't offered value for money on the free agents who have moved on. We got stuff all for Maloney and Rivers but maybe because we picked up Byrne? If we had styed out of the free agency trading we my have been better compensated, who knows. But I think the AFL have made it clear that you won't be fully compensated for FA trade losses.

[dee-luded 2,959]

There is a Different set of rules operating here. Geelong got compensation for GA Junior as we did for Scully under the rules set up for the new clubs rights to raid established clubs. Free agency is a different beast, so far the AFL hasn't offered value for money on the free agents who have moved on. We got stuff all for Maloney and Rivers but maybe because we picked up Byrne? If we had styed out of the free agency trading we my have been better compensated, who knows. But I think the AFL have made it clear that you won't be fully compensated for FA trade losses.

Yes Hood, I fully realise that bit (re GAjnr), but there is a marked difference between Moloney & Buddy... the afl won't want to make another group antagonistic with losing a marquee player for nothing, & GWS won't want to stir up a hornets nest IMO either.

So I have a sneaking suspicion, that if the bud goes 'north bye north west', a deal may arrive down the beanstalk.

Edited August 6, 2013 by dee-luded

[P-man 13,366]

To those who say tanking killed us, would we have been a better side with Cotchin and Nic Nat? I think so. Yet we won the Dogs game, what did it help us?

Please tell me you're not serious.

Wow.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,706]

With respect to recruitment, I would have thought it doesn't matter whether we finish last or second last. If GWS is last, Tom Boyd goes to GWS or whoever they trade Pick 1 to. We would then choose the best midfielder available. If we finish last, we still choose the best midfielder available because there is no point in picking another key position player with our first pick, irrespective of how good he is.

[old dee 23,782]

With respect to recruitment, I would have thought it doesn't matter whether we finish last or second last. If GWS is last, Tom Boyd goes to GWS or whoever they trade Pick 1 to. We would then choose the best midfielder available. If we finish last, we still choose the best midfielder available because there is no point in picking another key position player with our first pick, irrespective of how good he is.

Feel like trading pick one to Brisbane for Rich?

[monoccular 17,417]

Priority picks are a massive red herring. Fool's Gold even. No matter how many high picks we are gifted, they are not going to help us unless we get our player development right. As handy as it might be to get pick 1 and trade it off for a quality mid or two, it is a bandaid solution to a deep-rooted problem and I would prefer the club to address the issue head-on instead of covering it up again. There is a massive flaw in our system that leads so many talented players to fail to reach their potential, and we need to identify the deficiency and fix it before we can get the club moving in the right direction.

Couldn't agree more. Why would the AFL give us another 2 top 5 picks when we have been so absolutely awful in developing our multitude of top 20s for the last decade or more?

Fortunately PJ does seem to know what he is doing and where he is headed culture-wise: whether the club will let him do what is needed is of course another story.

Remember what Geelong and Sydney have done with so few high picks - makes me weep.

[Ted Lasso 19,356]

Yes, but the AFL are in a dilemma, the Cats got 2 picks compensation for GAjnr... the Hawks & their supporters will be are understandably ropable, if they get naught for Buddy, rules or no rules...

natural justice says to me they deserve compensation if they lose Buddy... & GWS should have to pay for such a privilage.

... the trouble is if the Hawks get the number 1 pick, they may take the best Mid with it. IMO they need gun Mids, more than Power Forwards atmo.

But: if we finish bottom, & GWS then get pick 2,,, & they also have a mid 1st Rnd compensation pick available, that may just suit all parties.

Doesn't the compo depend heavily on ladder position and how important the player is to the side? see hawks are 1st and i'm not certain they're that much worse without him, infact some argue they're better without him so it will be very interesting to see how they rule that, i think pick 15-20 would be appropriate.

[CBDees 3,167]

If we were 'lucky' enough to be able to be in a position to draft Boyd, I'd hope they'd do this. Boyd is an outstanding player and a top prospect. You don't go past the 'top' prospect.

Hogan and Boyd would be a great forward pair for many years.

Clark has an ongoing, if not chronic and career ending injury and Dawes seems to be injured regularly. There is no guarantee that either of them will be long term players for us.

I completely agree with the idea of taking Boyd if he is ours to select as he is clearly the best available. The only way we get him is if we either finish bottom and get No. 1 pick or we get a priority pick ahead of GWS. Either way we will also have pick No. 1 or No. 2 to trade for a midfielder and surely with Jones and Viney and Toumpas with another pre-season behind them we have the skeleton for a midfield. We also will have first pick in both the pre-season and rookie drafts (unless we clog up our list with recycled players at the tail-end of their careers) and miss out like we did last year with Hannath (who wasn't a midfilder by the way). Our spine has potential and even moreso should we have Boyd and Hogan as forwards. After all GWS with Cameron and their young midfield illustrates that we don't have to target mid-career players..

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,706]

Feel like trading pick one to Brisbane for Rich?

No, I wouldn't trade our first pick except for a few selected players who are proven performers at the highest level (but not available) such as Ablett, Hannebery or Dangerfield . We should recruit the best available midfielder and develop him properly.

It's the last three words in that previous sentence that matter most. If we can't do that, any player we trade for will go backwards anyway.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Feel like trading pick one to Brisbane for Rich?

oh, No... I to have been thinking about Rich, & wonder if we can make a deal, but no, not pick 1.

Couldn't agree more. Why would the AFL give us another 2 top 5 picks when we have been so absolutely awful in developing our multitude of top 20s for the last decade or more?

Fortunately PJ does seem to know what he is doing and where he is headed culture-wise: whether the club will let him do what is needed is of course another story.

Remember what Geelong and Sydney have done with so few high picks - makes me weep.

because they are having a hand in selecting personnel, & organising Us to be a strong footy club. also they said they would assist us on the 'slow rebuild'...

I think we'll have no problems getting help to sort things out, as long as the other 'ticket' doesn't stuff things Up.

the Cats Mono, have only hit their straps over the last 6 Yrs or so? it took them a while i think to realise what it takes.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Doesn't the compo depend heavily on ladder position and how important the player is to the side? see hawks are 1st and i'm not certain they're that much worse without him, infact some argue they're better without him so it will be very interesting to see how they rule that, i think pick 15-20 would be appropriate.

those compo rules wouldn't apply that were made for the expansion teams.

what I'm talking about is that all 3 parties see common sense, & make sure "the right thing" is done.

[Ted Lasso 19,356]

those compo rules wouldn't apply that were made for the expansion teams.

what I'm talking about is that all 3 parties see common sense, & make sure "the right thing" is done.

Yeah, that's fair enough, so GWS get pick 1, trade to Hawthorn for Buddy, we get a PP of 2&3 maybe and Hawks get boyd?

[CBDees 3,167]

Don't everybody assume that Buddy is off to GWS. Sydney with Bolton, Mumford and others retiring may well outbid them and can also offer the realistic chance of a AFL Premiership thrown in!

[Swampfox 190]

Since when do we have control what other teams do other than the ones we are playing against ?

Its a mute point but it is what it is

I don't expect Melbourne to win another game this season as we keep rewarding senior games to players who don't perform week after week

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah, that's fair enough, so GWS get pick 1, trade to Hawthorn for Buddy, we get a PP of 2&3 maybe and Hawks get boyd????? a gun player whoever they choose

thats what I'm imagining... something like that.

I think the AFL's perspective would be to firstly help us off field & GWS get that marquee player who can draw attention & crowds. & who would help that club be more competative & lift on the ladder.

So I can imagine the Hawks & GWS doing some deal, thats IF GWS want Buddy & Buddy wants GWS ?

.... the Hawks engine room is getting long in the tooth, & this is why I wonder if the hawks would pass on Boyd or on-trade him to another club for an established Mid ???

I don't think Boyd is a lock re the hawks scenario.

I just want us to be able to get the Mids we require to help get us moving & winning.

& I want the GWS to become competative.

[Ted Lasso 19,356]

thats what I'm imagining... something like that.

I think the AFL's perspective would be to firstly help us off field & GWS get that marquee player who can draw attention & crowds. & who would help that club be more competative & lift on the ladder.

So I can imagine the Hawks & GWS doing some deal, thats IF GWS want Buddy & Buddy wants GWS ?

.... the Hawks engine room is getting long in the tooth, & this is why I wonder if the hawks would pass on Boyd or on-trade him to another club for an established Mid ???

I don't think Boyd is a lock re the hawks scenario.

I just want us to be able to get the Mids we require to help get us moving & winning.

& I want the GWS to become competative.

I agree, and who's to say a better coach might get 20% more development and improvement out of blokes like Trengove anyway, we still have alot of talent unfulfilled on our list.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

We're lucky GWS exist, (well if i had it my way they wouldn't exist) and since we're playing far worse footy than we did during our consecutive spoons of 08&09, the concept of one this year doesn't really bother me. I don't think we're tanking, I don't think we know how to tank. The players also can't play together or for themselves

[old dee 23,782]

I agree, and who's to say a better coach might get 20% more development and improvement out of blokes like Trengove anyway, we still have alot of talent unfulfilled on our list.

Quite obviously I need a trip to the optician.

With the exception of a few kids I am buggered if I can see them Df26

[Ted Lasso 19,356]

Quite obviously I need a trip to the optician.

With the exception of a few kids I am buggered if I can see them Df26

We have a few duds there is no question but i'd like to think Trenners, Grimes, Howe, Mcdonald, strauss, Tapscott, Toumpas, Viney, Hogan and all of those boys have some improvement in them.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

Couldn't agree more. Why would the AFL give us another 2 top 5 picks when we have been so absolutely awful in developing our multitude of top 20s for the last decade or more?

Fortunately PJ does seem to know what he is doing and where he is headed culture-wise: whether the club will let him do what is needed is of course another story.

Remember what Geelong and Sydney have done with so few high picks - makes me weep.

mono, it is possible that our picks were/are no effen good??