Neeld is not the problem

[dee-luded 2,959]

Look at Freo, they get a competent coach and the players respond last year and run and spread, attack and defend.

We do none of the above, the players don't run from their opponents as they know the ball will sail back over their heads to their opponents, the mids are always outnumbered and get beaten at the contest constantly, or they get the ball and get smashed. The forwards either don't get the ball down there or if they do they get it kicked on their heads.

All these things should be either coached into them or out of them.

After 18 months a lot of the players who have been there for all of Neelds tenure still make the same mistakes. He can't get his message across, wether this is the players fault really is irrelevant because its his job to get them to play good footy, he has failed so far and does not show any sign of doing any better anytime soon.

Would another coach do better? If it was a respected coach, ie Roos etc I reckon they would get a better output.

...so, clarkson refused our offers, as did RLyon, & others like Roos said he won't coach this club... what does that tell you??? they don't want to go near this culture with a B-52 !!!!

... Let some other poor soul do it.

... it takes guts to stepup to this mire we have built over 15 Yrs. On top of an already flashy & unprofessional culture thru the nineties, we've added soft.

Over the past 5 years the footy dept' tried to fix it & made some mistakes along that path, moving on the more disciplined & hard workers, & kept the flashy... the coach was removed.

Now we have someone who understands the Issue & is doing the hard work, with the backing of the footy dept along side him. don't you think they would have walked out, if it was wrong?

most ex players from other clubs have known, Melbourne have been undisciplined & lazy as a club for decades, but none of them would say it as Melbournefc were still adding entertainment to the show.

Now they are just putting out cheap shots from the soft seats.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Look at Freo, they get a competent coach and the players respond last year and run and spread, attack and defend.

We do none of the above, the players don't run from their opponents as they know the ball will sail back over their heads to their opponents, the mids are always outnumbered and get beaten at the contest constantly, or they get the ball and get smashed. The forwards either don't get the ball down there or if they do they get it kicked on their heads.

All these things should be either coached into them or out of them.

After 18 months a lot of the players who have been there for all of Neelds tenure still make the same mistakes. He can't get his message across, wether this is the players fault really is irrelevant because its his job to get them to play good footy, he has failed so far and does not show any sign of doing any better anytime soon.

Would another coach do better? If it was a respected coach, ie Roos etc I reckon they would get a better output.

Lets look at Freo, in the first 5 Minutes, I noticed that they are all built ! strong muscular frames.. they aren't kids.

it starts from there.

[drdrake 3,180]

We had 1 AFL standard midfielder playing yesterday, only 1, Trengove is cloase to making that 2 but needs more consistancy winning the footy. No team can compete with 1 quality midfielder. We play 4-5 small forwards that can't run through the midfielder, only Davey over the past 2 weeks has shown that he can spend time in the midfield, Jetta, Tapscott, Byrnes, Bail, put us four players down straight away, they don't impact the game on any front they don't give us forward pressure, they don,t impact the score board and they are unable to go through the midfield.

The issue is at the moment we have no one to come in and have an impact, no one is ready for next week. We can bring in Fitzpatrick, MacDonald and Toumpas but the is card shuffling and will not make us more competitve.

I feel sorry for Mark Neeld, he may be a good coach but he will never find out, he has got the worst midfield group in the AFL by an absolute mile.

Give him the year, after this week and the bye week we start to get players back, Sylvia, Grimes, Clark, Viney, McDonald, these players do make a difference the last two are still young but are better than anything else we have. We have 5-6 games against bottom 8 clubs in the last half of the year, these games should decide Neeld's fait.

[jazza 1,323]

... the gameplan isn't being implemented. they're trying but one or two aren't putting in the effort when we don't have the ball. watts was good early. I haven't seen all the game. just studying that first qtr when the white flag was raised.

take a look at the game yesterday minute by minute thru the first 10 minutes or more, with the sound OFF. don't watch the ball carrier. watch what Our players are doing without the ball.

In the first few minutes after a very sound start DPearce went thru the centre bounce taking the ball, Davey just stood behind & made No attempt to get after him, no effort. this is what makes others drop their heads. no one was on his tail easy goal.

then again after Terlich ran & kicked the ball from 40 mtrs out, along the corridor to Davey out near centre wing. Davey was under pressure & he didn't go at the ball & jump for the mark. another quick freo kick forward & another easy goal.

a poor effort to take an easy mark by Dunn with no one around him, dropped the ball & under pressure ran toward the corridor instinctively instead of toward the boundary. It would have n=been better to get caught holding the ball instead of poor execution of skills putting others under the pump.

...all our so called leaders. older players.. questionable players.

.... this set the tone for the game.

this is not Neelds making, this is the old culture Neeld is removing.... this is the old culture thats seen our good sides be teasers to us. S.O.F.T....culture. without this Exorcism, the Dees will never play like Warriors. & this Is the reason our kids haven't developed for decades... why Mclean & Sylvia didn't, & why our better players of the past 10 + Years haven't gotten past 3rd Gear in the potential.

Neeld is on the right track, but after the past 10 yrs of this clubs efforts, it is hard to have faith in someone pulling down what we're clinging to.

.

brilliant post agree with everything mate

although it upsets the sack the coach theory, the older list people are not true and valued leaders.

they dont have to get a million possesions , they have to lead, and to be honest they are average follower type players at best

this is why the fd have stated we need time on the new players.also i dont think they want to expose this group of kids to the older generation of laziness that has developed at this club

hes trying so hard to change it. but i think the stars are against him and the fd

the next coach will only get 2 choices <go with the flow> or stab kill and murder and start again. with the wishes of the club.

but this leads us back to where we already are

[Sir Why You Little 37,053]

I thought you would recognise what I am saying, there is a group of posters on here, yourself included, who couldn't have an open discussion or debate if your lives depended on it, you do nothing but whinge and whine and the answer to every question is "sack everbody", you all claim you support the club, but do nothing but bag everybody associated with the Club

Yes we are going through a rough trot, yes everybody is hurting, do you really think you are on your own, but the negative destructive rubbish that is posted achieves what?

I don't agree with a hell of a lot of what Grand New Flag posts but he least he sits down and has a think about it, and offers some debate, not whinging and whining....and sack everybody

Some of the other members of your minority keep posting that I am on ignore, why do they do it, to try and belittle coz they don't have the bottle or wherewithall to engage in proper debate,......do they think I really care whether they read or not.....er no

Yes Yes that's what i thought you were saying.

You i believe we are going through a little more than a "rough trot"

Serious issues from 186 were never fully resolved.

The players are not putting in during matches, when it counts.

Action is needed and your "keep Calm" attitude will not change mine.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

You guys would all kill on Burgo's Catch Phrase!

So many worn out clichés and not much else on both sides of the argument.

I don't think anyone can really judge how good a coach is. All the premiership winning coaches have been part of great clubs, many from one-club towns.

My gut feeling is that we should stick with this coach.

However, the pragmatic argument is that the club can't make a decision based on what is best for the playing group, whatever that is - instead it must act at the behest of supporters.

If supporter's aren't going to games, buying memberships etc. that's it. Game over.

I feel for Neeld and I'm wary of anyone who claims with any certainty that he can or cannot coach - but the reality is that if you lose your fanbase/clientele, you don't have a functioning business/club.

[nutbean 8,838]

brilliant post agree with everything mate

although it upsets the sack the coach theory, the older list people are not true and valued leaders.

they dont have to get a million possesions , they have to lead, and to be honest they are average follower type players at best

this is why the fd have stated we need time on the new players.also i dont think they want to expose this group of kids to the older generation of laziness that has developed at this club

hes trying so hard to change it. but i think the stars are against him and the fd

the next coach will only get 2 choices <go with the flow> or stab kill and murder and start again. with the wishes of the club.

but this leads us back to where we already are

therein lies the problem - but it is not one problem - it is a myriad of problems - our players are not good enough, strong enough of body or character and they are not responding to the coach. On the flip side you can plainly make the argument that the coach is unable to get the players to respond to him. Either way it is rare that three quarters of the team are sacked for not responding to the coach but common place for a coach to be sacked for three quarters of the team not responding to him.

I fully admire Neeld for his stance of trying to rid of us a soft [censored] culture ( although he has back tracked on his early talk of not accepting mediocrity and fallen into the "baileyesque" excuses of inexperience and light bodies.)

I fully condemn the players for not coming on board and I fully condemn Neeld for not being able to get the players on board.

I never expected lots of wins from last season to this - I expected some measure of improvement to show that last year was the bottom and some progress has been made.

Alas......

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

I know I am repeating myself, but I think people have missed the point.

The primary responsibility of any coach is to get the most out of his players. Neeld does not have the personal or management skills required to do this, Neeld does not have the motivational stills, he cannot install confidence, he cannot get the players to play for the gurnsey, the supporters, for themselves or for Neeld. Even if he was the best tactful coach in the world (which he is not) he would still be a failure as he does not have the fundamental personal skills required.

The quicker we rid ourselves the quicker we can start re-building confidence and self belief. The quicker we can start healing.

At this stage just about anyone would be better then Neeld. Regardless a new coach must concentrate on confidence and self belief.

Neeld must be replaced by a motivational coach. There is simply no upside leaving him til season's end.

Enough is enough!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I know I am repeating myself, but I think people have missed the point.

The primary responsibility of any coach is to get the most out of his players. Neeld does not have the personal or management skills required to do this, Neeld does not have the motivational stills, he cannot install confidence, he cannot get the players to play for the gurnsey, the supporters, for themselves or for Neeld. Even if he was the best tactful coach in the world (which he is not) he would still be a failure as he does not have the fundamental personal skills required.

The quicker we rid ourselves the quicker we can start re-building confidence and self belief. The quicker we can start healing.

At this stage just about anyone would be better then Neeld. Regardless a new coach must concentrate on confidence and self belief.

Neeld must be replaced by a motivational coach. There is simply no upside leaving him til season's end.

Enough is enough!

That is a good argument GNF - can not fault what you have said

Execution by the palerys is the main problem for Neeld and as you pointed out Neeld plays a big part in this.....But as we've argued it is not soley on Neeld that players keep losing 1 v 1 contests or only play competitive for 1 qtr.

If it is Neeld or another coach there is still going to be the same glaring problems and Neeld or the new coach will have a lot of work to do to develop this list - the turn around isn't going to happen overnight - I am not sure if you see that GNF

Edited May 27, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[dee-luded 2,959]

brilliant post agree with everything mate

although it upsets the sack the coach theory, the older list people are not true and valued leaders.

they dont have to get a million possesions , they have to lead, and to be honest they are average follower type players at best

this is why the fd have stated we need time on the new players.also i dont think they want to expose this group of kids to the older generation of laziness that has developed at this club

hes trying so hard to change it. but i think the stars are against him and the fd

the next coach will only get 2 choices <go with the flow> or stab kill and murder and start again. with the wishes of the club.

but this leads us back to where we already are

losing rivers hurt us, although not in the long-term, but in terms of the Now... Tmac hasn't come on this year & too much expected of a kid. this has put the backhalf under the pump.

... but in all this, is the one critical element which only list change will weed out, the old culture.... & some are Still in contract.

we need one more list clearence & fresh mature players brought in..... the likes of a chappy last year would have helped, but too late now for him.

... seriously I'd chase Sam Mitchell for quick effect.. I'd offer him $2Mill over 3 years... as an onfield leader.

& we need a strong minded experienced half back flanker.... and to lose some with meek wills. & an experienced winger.

.

[Trisul 664]

Will we ever be able to own our failures as we own our successes?

In the greater scheme of things the players, the FDs, the coaches, and the boards haven't over the years. Jim did.

That lack of accountability and transparency is what leaves nothing but the coach to focus on (or youth/inexperience/puddle-depth if you're running on empty).

[dee-luded 2,959]

We had 1 AFL standard midfielder playing yesterday, only 1, Trengove is cloase to making that 2 but needs more consistancy winning the footy. No team can compete with 1 quality midfielder. We play 4-5 small forwards that can't run through the midfielder, only Davey over the past 2 weeks has shown that he can spend time in the midfield, Jetta, Tapscott, Byrnes, Bail, put us four players down straight away, they don't impact the game on any front they don't give us forward pressure, they don,t impact the score board and they are unable to go through the midfield.

The issue is at the moment we have no one to come in and have an impact, no one is ready for next week. We can bring in Fitzpatrick, MacDonald and Toumpas but the is card shuffling and will not make us more competitve.

I feel sorry for Mark Neeld, he may be a good coach but he will never find out, he has got the worst midfield group in the AFL by an absolute mile.

Give him the year, after this week and the bye week we start to get players back, Sylvia, Grimes, Clark, Viney, McDonald, these players do make a difference the last two are still young but are better than anything else we have. We have 5-6 games against bottom 8 clubs in the last half of the year, these games should decide Neeld's fait.

totally Dr...

http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6319&Code=2faa69c4efc9a3b708eba0d84080bb68

# ... & body size.

.

Edited May 27, 2013 by dee-luded

[jazza 1,323]

I know I am repeating myself, but I think people have missed the point.

The primary responsibility of any coach is to get the most out of his players. Neeld does not have the personal or management skills required to do this, Neeld does not have the motivational stills, he cannot install confidence, he cannot get the players to play for the gurnsey, the supporters, for themselves or for Neeld. Even if he was the best tactful coach in the world (which he is not) he would still be a failure as he does not have the fundamental personal skills required.

The quicker we rid ourselves the quicker we can start re-building confidence and self belief. The quicker we can start healing.

At this stage just about anyone would be better then Neeld. Regardless a new coach must concentrate on confidence and self belief.

Neeld must be replaced by a motivational coach. There is simply no upside leaving him til season's end.

Enough is enough!

your half right

im sure the board may not have given this credo for the fd to follow, he even said this in an interview the other day. were on the right track. cut slash and burn and thats why getting the best out of players is not the job disciption at the moment.

the mistakes with the fd go back to the last 6 gtames of 2011 and he and all of us are paying for this

a sacking WILL bring renewed hope, but wont fix the endemic problems

this can only be fixed with a pure rebuild. i think thats what thier trying to do and somebody will be the scapegoat

remember if you want answers and some short term wins, we will be back here within 5 years

let it run its course and the NEXT term will hopefully give us reward

[Kureemy 22]

I can assure u that if Malthouse was coach instead of Neely we would of shown a lot more effort this year.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Jazza, we simply no longer have the luxury of letting it "run its course" We are way beyond that now.

[Cards13 9,117]

Short answer is both Cards. But whatever happens the general perception of us as a footy club has to change in the market place. Understandably, the AFL will not tolerate its brand being trashed in the heartland for much longer. Nor should it, i believe.

Thanks Iv'a. I'm not sure how that perception is going to change in the short term with our on field efforts as they are. The only way I can see that percetion changing (whether the perception is heald by the AFL, other fans or even potential sponsors) is by us being a winning or "competitive" side at least. Watching us a present we do not look like turning that corner soon and unless the AFL introduces a mid-year draft for us and us alone we are in for a long year and terrible balance sheet for who knows how long. So where does that leave us Iv'a, a deep in the water club going to fold or being shipped off to Tassie?

Also do you know (and I assume even if you knew could not answer) if we are chasing a CEO at present ie someone like Gauci? Or are we waiting for Jackson 6 month to end? I would be really worried if we were not in the market place for someone like Gauci if they are available now.

[dpositive 1,670]

Well

I have been hesitant in commenting as I agree with so much of what everyone says .

I didnt want to sack Neeld but I didnt want to appoint him.

I thought Hinkley had value but didnt say so.Hoped Neeld had more than one trick

I haven thought our draft picks were brilliant but hoped we would get value from them (Cook Morton probably best examples) could have been inspired if they worked.

I am tending to agree with GNF and others cos I think it is the coach for all the reasons that have been canvassed.

If the players cant wont perform it is the coaches job to fix that.

Maybe have a plan (or more than one ) that can do that.

As someone said freo players seemed to get Lyons approach quickly perhaps because he used what he had. Hinkley has had some success with Port (the article in the Age sets out why).

The Coach is the Coach. The coach doesnt alienate players he involves players He doesnt bore or berate them he encourages them He doesnt say they are unfit poorly trained lack skills he gets em motivated. For whatever reason or however it has been presented Neeld just doesnt seem to get it right.

It may be that there is a difference between what we as supporters see and what is happening out the back but that is also aproblem there should be consistency of message

And yes I think that means honest and transparent message.

Yes we are playing poorly I am going to do this about that

player X has not been tackling we will discuss and I will expect an improvement at casey. Player y has poor disposal we will work on that and I will expect improvement. player z is undersized we will use him sparingly to give him some experience of what he needs to do amd will build him up .

If a plyer has skills use them while building on them and improving weaknesses.

Make the game plan inclusive especially of those skills not my way or the highway.

I dont think we can afford much more of this current situation, I am willing to give Neeld till the end of the year but I think even that needs to be clearly stated

NOt we have overwhelming faith in him but we have until the end of the year to see his progress

We have many players high draft picks well credentialed we will also be keeping them till years end and appraising them. There will be no rebuild of a rebuils we will retain the players we have and we will utilise them with a games plan to achieve some success We will not continue to condone failure, but we will identify both before we act

OH Hell you know what I mean Rant over

[nutbean 8,838]

I can assure u that if Malthouse was coach instead of Neely we would of shown a lot more effort this year.

Gotta love a statement that has absolutely no way of being proven right or wrong so I think I'll pass on your assurances.

Note that we have some on here who bemoan us not taking Sheedy when we had the chance but his subsequent coaching efforts and recruiting strategies to date have been questionable at best.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Thanks Iv'a. I'm not sure how that perception is going to change in the short term with our on field efforts as they are. The only way I can see that percetion changing (whether the perception is heald by the AFL, other fans or even potential sponsors) is by us being a winning or "competitive" side at least. Watching us a present we do not look like turning that corner soon and unless the AFL introduces a mid-year draft for us and us alone we are in for a long year and terrible balance sheet for who knows how long. So where does that leave us Iv'a, a deep in the water club going to fold or being shipped off to Tassie?

Also do you know (and I assume even if you knew could not answer) if we are chasing a CEO at present ie someone like Gauci? Or are we waiting for Jackson 6 month to end? I would be really worried if we were not in the market place for someone like Gauci if they are available now.

Cards, there will always be a "Melbourne" in some form or other. There has to be and the AFL want it to be. Your comment about being a "competitive side at least" is what the AFL would see as realistic in the short term.

As far as a CEO is concerned? Who knows. We may even get to keep PJ.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

your half right

im sure the board may not have given this credo for the fd to follow, he even said this in an interview the other day. were on the right track. cut slash and burn and thats why getting the best out of players is not the job disciption at the moment.

the mistakes with the fd go back to the last 6 gtames of 2011 and he and all of us are paying for this

a sacking WILL bring renewed hope, but wont fix the endemic problems

this can only be fixed with a pure rebuild. i think thats what thier trying to do and somebody will be the scapegoat

remember if you want answers and some short term wins, we will be back here within 5 years

let it run its course and the NEXT term will hopefully give us reward

Thanks Jazza you make some good points,

However, changing culture and building confidence and self belief should not be mutually exclusive. A good coach can do both at the same time. We must get a coach that can do both tasks at the same time.

[rjay 24,999]

Thanks Jazza you make some good points,

However, changing culture and building confidence and self belief should not be mutually exclusive. A good coach can do both at the same time. We must get a coach that can do both tasks at the same time.

As 'bomber' Thompson said last week. Change the culture, learn to run both ways, but you have to get some wins on the board along the way.

[nutbean 8,838]

Thanks Jazza you make some good points,

However, changing culture and building confidence and self belief should not be mutually exclusive. A good coach can do both at the same time. We must get a coach that can do both tasks at the same time.

That is the one big cross against Neeld.

I applaud his effort to attempt to change the culture - unfortunately too few have jumped aboard and embraced.

No one thought it would be an overnight process but I dont think anyone thought we would plummet to these depths and Neeld must take responsibility along with the players.

Edited May 27, 2013 by nutbean

[bing181 9,248]

For those who subscribe to the philosophy that we need to be patient and allow the current game plan - whatever that is - to be fully understood and implemented by adding to the list of current players, draft picks and smart trades ....

With all due respect, I don't know that there's anyone around here saying that. Well, not that I can see.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

With all due respect, I don't know that there's anyone around here saying that. Well, not that I can see.

Umm, I can assure you that there are some very loud voices on here that say we need to stay the course and wait the full 5 years. I won't name them as that would give them some credibility which they don't deserve.

[bing181 9,248]

Umm, I can assure you that there are some very loud voices on here that say we need to stay the course and wait the full 5 years.

I'd be interested to see any posts that would confirm that.