"Unrecognisable"

[H_T 3,048]

Don't you see that replacing the players is not the answer?

The "infection" is mental, and will just be passed on the newcomers.

Change is happening.

It takes time.

Like I said, lets not throw out the baby with the bath water. There's still 21 games and as they acknowledge they have the chance to redeem themselves.

Edit: Some of them do, anyway.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Don't you see that replacing the players is not the answer?

The "infection" is mental, and will just be passed on the newcomers.

Change is happening.

It takes time.

Whatever do you mean?

The infection is mental and runs throughout our core group of 50 - 100 game players. We've waited six years Jens. Six [censored] years for this 'change' to happen.

It's ingrained and Neeld has already replaced a few players for 'attitude' reasons so what do you mean replacing is not the answer? I would argue that for the majority, it very well is the damn answer!

We need another list cull, an injection of youth with our new and improved recruiting team, and a couple more 'culture shifters' via free agency.

Replacing and breading out is the answer for the majority of the list. An AFL team cannot train for 5 months and put on a show like that!!! What is wrong with you! We have major issues here with a core group of players!!! Wake the [censored] up.

[binman 43,020]

Don't you see that replacing the players is not the answer?

The "infection" is mental, and will just be passed on the newcomers.

Change is happening.

It takes time.

Look i'm a believer in Neelds approach to lift training standards and building an 'elite' culture (though i'm getting a bit sick of that word) but apart from track reports it is pretty hard to prosecute a case that change is happening based on the game i just saw. I reckon that is the worst loss i can recall bar the Geelong 186 fiasco and to be honest it's not far behind that game.

I'm a Neeld supporter and perhaps stevetheman is right in saying we just have to carve out all the players who are connected with the woeful past culture. But we need to see improvement this year, even if only incremental. If not as sure as the sun rises Neeld will get chopped at years end and if things don't improve from that game he may not last 'till then. Which, as another poster noted, would mean this playing group will have cost two coaches their job.

[P-man 13,366]

I can't fathom how Neeld reckons we were travelling well in the pre-season. We were bog ordinary. Didn't we lose all the games we were involved in? I saw us play the Suns up at Southport and we were made to look second rate by them. Thrashed in the midfield and shaky in defence.

I think the bloke is out of his depth and reckon he'll be gone by round 7. We'll lose to one or both of GWS and the Suns and that will be that.

There were many things he said in that presser tha made me think "wtf?", but that was near the top of the pile. We were puss during the NAB Cup.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

And for all those including players talking about 'redeeming themselves' this Saturday night is making me physically ill.

Firstly, if Melbourne win the game, it will not redeem anything. It will only bewilder me more. You cannot redeem a performance like Saturday's. No way, no how.

It always takes a loss like that for our laughable players to come out and 'prove' something. That is under 11's talk. It's what juniors use for inspiration. Not AFL players.

The whole thing is highly comical and gut wrenching at the same time. We are kidding ourselves.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I can't stop. It's like verbal diarrhoea.

[Jens Lehmann 75]

Well that's it, isn't it?

We're kidding ourselves to think we were better.

What has changed since last season when we got regularly spanked?

Round 1 was the perfect storm, but I'll give you the hot tip: it's not going to get much better as the season goes on.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

And for all those including players talking about 'redeeming themselves' this Saturday night is making me physically ill.

Firstly, if Melbourne win the game, it will not redeem anything. It will only bewilder me more. You cannot redeem a performance like Saturday's. No way, no how.

It always takes a loss like that for our laughable players to come out and 'prove' something. That is under 11's talk. It's what juniors use for inspiration. Not AFL players.

The whole thing is highly comical and gut wrenching at the same time. We are kidding ourselves.

QFT

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

QFT

Quite frankly told or Quantum field theory?

[Chook 15,013]

Quite frankly told or Quantum field theory?

Quoted for truth.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Well that's it, isn't it?

We're kidding ourselves to think we were better.

What has changed since last season when we got regularly spanked?

Round 1 was the perfect storm, but I'll give you the hot tip: it's not going to get much better as the season goes on.

I'm very confused with this post.

[binman 43,020]

QFT

Quantum field theory?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Quoted for truth.

Ahh

[Mono 455]

I like the passion and love for the club shown by so many with so many extreme reactions, but my god, a lot of it is poorly directed.

Home truths...

....................

Many good, thoughtful points there JL.

In addition, the MFC lacks leaders of any status, on and off the field. This is fundamental.

The best clubs have champions who impose themselves on a game (eg cats, filth, swans) or have game day champs AND past champs involved (eg hawks).

The MFC has no current players who can, or are willing, to impose themselves on a match (Clark maybe in time if he stays on the park); haven't had any since Neitz and Lyon before him. It also has no past champs (Neitz, Lyon) imposing themselves on the club.

ATM, Grimes and Trengove lack experience and credibility as captains; the leadership group is, well, anything but (stuffed if I know why Frawley is in it - he should have imposed himself on the game; he has played over a 100 games now!). Garland...good grief. Remember, Neeld had Bartram in the group - why, because he tried to impose himself on the game.

Leaders are not "good guys"; they are players who can (at least try), or are able to, impose themselves on a game.

That's why Viney is able to stand up and speak; he believes in himself, and his ability to impose himself. We have had no-one like him at the club since Neitz left.

That's where the recruiting has failed, where the club has failed. That's what standing for nothing is. NO LEADERSHIP!

Neitz, Lyon? Where are you. The club desperately needs you (and maybe Schwartz who has regained off-field credibility).

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I agree with most of what you say mono, there are potential leaders in the group but they have achieved nothing in a football sense yet...so they don't have the runs on the board. Leadership is as much about the perceptions of those you lead as it is about having the quality. If you don't have credibility it makes leadership very difficult.

Edited April 2, 2013 by dandeeman

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

There have been no leaders to learn from which has stunted development. We have an inability to develop players and leaders because of this. It's a merry-go-round.

[Jens Lehmann 75]

I've said for a long time: we will not be competitive again until Grimes, Trengove, etc are the mature senior players, and the old guard are gone.

These players are still in their infancy.

More pain to come.

[frankie_d 1,471]

Quite frankly told or Quantum field theory?

What would the Lagrangian for the Melbourne Football Club look like - takes the principle of least action to a whole new level...

[loges 6,767]

Many good, thoughtful points there JL.

In addition, the MFC lacks leaders of any status, on and off the field. This is fundamental.

The best clubs have champions who impose themselves on a game (eg cats, filth, swans) or have game day champs AND past champs involved (eg hawks).

The MFC has no current players who can, or are willing, to impose themselves on a match (Clark maybe in time if he stays on the park); haven't had any since Neitz and Lyon before him. It also has no past champs (Neitz, Lyon) imposing themselves on the club.

ATM, Grimes and Trengove lack experience and credibility as captains; the leadership group is, well, anything but (stuffed if I know why Frawley is in it - he should have imposed himself on the game; he has played over a 100 games now!). Garland...good grief. Remember, Neeld had Bartram in the group - why, because he tried to impose himself on the game.

Leaders are not "good guys"; they are players who can (at least try), or are able to, impose themselves on a game.

That's why Viney is able to stand up and speak; he believes in himself, and his ability to impose himself. We have had no-one like him at the club since Neitz left.

That's where the recruiting has failed, where the club has failed. That's what standing for nothing is. NO LEADERSHIP!

Neitz, Lyon? Where are you. The club desperately needs you (and maybe Schwartz who has regained off-field credibility).

Good post, far too many introverts in this side who go into their shell as soon as things even look like going pear shaped. So quickly become reactive to what the opposition are doing instead of trying to initiate anything. Try and be first to the footy, then if you don't get it worry about your opponent, not the other way round all the time. Badly need players to stand up and show leadership

[Hobbits's 17]

I agree with most of what you say mono, there are potential leaders in the group but they have achieved nothing in a football sense yet...so they don't have the runs on the board. Leadership is as much about the perceptions of those you lead as it is about having the quality. If you don't have credibility it makes leadership very difficult.

Leadership, midfield, experience, class and now a somewhat weakened backline. Seems not much has changed from the problems that existed back in 2011.

Understandably it takes time. Equally understandably frustrating.

[Hardnut 327]

The OP is right to be concerned that Neeld didn't see the PA loss coming - as soon as Hinkley was appointed and the Draw was announced, a number of my friends and I saw it coming, although not by as big a margin!

[LegsLeoncelli 162]

Oh wow!!!!! one of the most important things to do is "shave the beards off and look like footballers".....dear dear me........Michael Tuck, Adam Goodes, Akermanis in his prime........reallty get a grip, there is a lot more wrong with what is inside the head than outside

I'll give you another example then. I went to training with my two kids on Labor Day. They trained in two groups. The first group trained well, much like the numerous reports from preseason on this forum suggested.

The second group were way more 'relaxed', and were only on the track for about 20 minutes- I gather they had been doing something indoors while the first group were training. During handball drills in groups of four, one group took it upon themselves to turn it into a game, where if a player dropped the ball he had to allow the other three guys to flick him on the back of the ear. Needless to say, two players in particular were trying their best to make the other drop the ball.

A few thoughts went through my head:

1. Is this normal? Is that acceptable because it's a 'comradery' thing?

2. Is this short session even worthwhile? It felt more like the FD just needed to fill in some time.

3. How do I explain the importance of training to my 8yo son, who plays both auskick and club footy, when this is his example?

4. Am I over-reacting? Surely it's ok to have a bit of fun, as long as you can turn 'it' on when you need to.

Needless to say, the boys couldn't find 'it' on Sunday. In hindsight, maybe I saw part of the reason why...

[Chook 15,013]

I'll give you another example then. I went to training with my two kids on Labor Day. They trained in two groups. The first group trained well, much like the numerous reports from preseason on this forum suggested.

The second group were way more 'relaxed', and were only on the track for about 20 minutes- I gather they had been doing something indoors while the first group were training. During handball drills in groups of four, one group took it upon themselves to turn it into a game, where if a player dropped the ball he had to allow the other three guys to flick him on the back of the ear. Needless to say, two players in particular were trying their best to make the other drop the ball.

A few thoughts went through my head:

1. Is this normal? Is that acceptable because it's a 'comradery' thing?

2. Is this short session even worthwhile? It felt more like the FD just needed to fill in some time.

3. How do I explain the importance of training to my 8yo son, who plays both auskick and club footy, when this is his example?

4. Am I over-reacting? Surely it's ok to have a bit of fun, as long as you can turn 'it' on when you need to.

Needless to say, the boys couldn't find 'it' on Sunday. In hindsight, maybe I saw part of the reason why...

Maybe they need a good flick on the ear. But seriously, an important part of training is switching things up and making them a little more fun every now and then. But if that kind of thing is the norm, then we have a serious problem.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Really good OP that covers all bases well.

Sunday was pathetic not just the result but the manner in which it played out. A few weeks ago I held grave concerns for some of my fellow posters who seemed to think victory was assured. Given the lack of competitive effort on Saturday it seemed as if the playing group & coaches also expected Port to be pushovers.

Some may accuse me of pessimism but I felt that our W/L ratio & ladder position wouldn't improve & could go backwards coming into 2013. 2012 established that there was a fair gulf in talent between the bottom 5 clubs & the rest and there wasn't a strong case as to how Melbourne could significantly close that gap never mind be significantly better than fellow cellar dwellers Port, Dogs, Suns & GWS overnight.

However, all that does not excuse the lack of effort on Sunday; the sheer laziness of it was mind blowing! How can 67kgs dripping wet Jake Neade pin 90+kg Col Garland in a tackle when all of our blokes tackles were slipped? Where was the mongrel? The support for your team mates? The shepherds? The intensity? The desire?

Playing group & coaches were responsible for all of the above & if nothing changes soon all & sundry should face the chop.

[Suzanna 72]

It's been a very hard few days, and it's been very hard to digest. How on earth, a club coming from several poor seasons, apparently a belter of an upbeat pre-season in preparation for Round One, with a 'next to no-injury list', can produce such a performance on the introduction to a new season on it's home ground is just bewildering in the extreme - despite a new look line-up.

What is worrying is the coach coming out after the game with his explanation on matters against Port Adelaide.

Alarming when he says he has "absolutely no idea" what happened and "didn't see it coming".

Asked about the difference in training standards from 12 months ago, he said it was "unrecognisable".

He concedes they just have to "stick at it" and "keep at it", well, I'm kind of hoping that he'll think outside the square and try anything this week that will make the players play for him.

Because he went on to say, “What we spoke about at three quarter time was unrecognisable when the [final] quarter started,” - that in itself is very alarming, but not as alarming as the following comment....

Neeld said some home truths were spoken immediately after the match.

“The players were really honest with each other and honest with me,” he said.

A few home truths for the coach perhaps??

Here's a few home truths from me: -

*When a debutant is leading the charge in the dressing room post match and telling some home truths, it really hits home with where our club is at and secondly, what he's about.

*Shave those beards off and look like footballers, pi55 off any other side-track games the players have going and get them to focus on the matter at hand in helping resurrecting this football club. If it improves things by 3% in being switched on, I'll frick'n take it.

*We were smashed early on in the midfield and clearances and it didn't let up throughout the day. I recall the figures during the second being 11-3 or 11-2 in clearances Port's way. We already know our midfield is inferior, but FGS, bloody well address it. or at least get to a 50/50 split on our home deck.

I am sick to death with having to vent and put up with [censored]! And I know the majority of who read this are as well.

It should be a privilege to play and coach for the Red & Blue, on the G.

Clearly not every stone has been turned to ensure the team plays to their best, or the coach/coaches - coach to their best. We all know that failing to plan, is planning to fail!

SO do your homework, and f**king well do it to your best! Each and every week!

Because it certainly isn't good enough to date and it hasn't been good enough since 2006.

That game was as significant a loss as the massive 2008 Round one loss to Hawthorn under Bailey. That's how bad it was. And it probably hurts more given Port's 5 wins last year and our recent minor win over them at Renmark.

7 months to prepare and serve up that crap, particularly after half time, given what the club has already been through, is just the pitts.

If the coach and team somehow turn it around and get 4 points against Essendon it will be a slap in the face to the supporters, by showing that results can be achieved when you put in effort. And it will be a lesson to the club of how to prepare each and every week in getting the players mindset right.

Ref: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-01/we-didnt-see-that-coming-neeld

Kick the ball up the middle of the ground! Aaargh!