Time to go Mark Neeld

[dee-luded 2,958]

Mate, do disrespect but things are past this point. The situation is far worse than you suggest. Make no mistake, staying on the current path is suicide. It is blind suicide faith.

The playing group is broken, they want out of this rabble of a club. If we wait until seasons end there WILL BE A MASS EXITUS. Half our list is out of contract. I have spoken in detail with a recently retired player about this. The situation is dire.

The reason for changing coached now is to give us some chance of holding onto these players come seasons end. If a caoch can be brought in who can inspire and get the players playing for there club, their gurnsey, that can create self belief we will not only see better performances, and less blowouts we will also see more wins and most importantly we have some chance of holding onto our players seasons end. This is the fundamental reason why Neeld must be sacked immediately.

Can I remind you that we have one just one game under Neeld (not including new franchises), but what is more concerning is that we are getting worse not better.

Mark my words.... we will again get smashed this week, it will be another heatless thrashing.

The question must be asked. What have we to lose changing coaches right now? Can we be worse? The answer is almost certainly no. We can bring in a caretaker, you never know the caretaker could end up being like Roos was when he took over Sydney. Regardless we will have 15 rounds to find the best experienced coach possible.

For the sake of our club, Neeld must go. He should resign in shame, but that is not reality.

So, you say you had a lengthy discussion with the recently retired (MFC) player? was this player recently retired from the Demons, or played for another club, then retired?

.. and if true, do they want Misson gone? do they want NCraig gone? all the assistant coaches gone?

lets us know what you've heard. say it, you don't have to spill names...

Player contracts: 2013

Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Couch ®, Magner ®, Rodan, Gillies

Edited May 1, 2013 by dee-luded

[Deeoldfart 7,851]

The problem for me is that compelling arguments can (and have been) made for giving Neeld his marching orders right now, or waiting until late in the season. I'm just stuffed if I know, mostly because I'm not close enough to the action to make a call which I'm completely comfortable with. I know things need to change, but as many of the learned posters above have indicated, timing is critical. I have splinters in my bum from sitting on the fence, but right now I don't know which way to jump. There may be an abyss on either side, and the viability of my much loved Demons is at stake.

[Tricky 340]

The problem for me is that compelling arguments can (and have been) made for giving Neeld his marching orders right now, or waiting until late in the season. I'm just stuffed if I know, mostly because I'm not close enough to the action to make a call which I'm completely comfortable with. I know things need to change, but as many of the learned posters above have indicated, timing is critical. I have splinters in my bum from sitting on the fence, but right now I don't know which way to jump. There may be an abyss on either side, and the viability of my much loved Demons is at stake.

You're not alone Deeoldfart.

[Wormburner 674]

You're not alone Deeoldfart.

If this is the case, I would hope the Football Director and the board are aware of the risks of the uncontracted players walking - to not know would be dire.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

So, you say you had a lengthy discussion with the recently retired (MFC) player? was this player recently retired from the Demons, or played for another club, then retired?

.. and if true, do they want Misson gone? do they want NCraig gone? all the assistant coaches gone?

lets us know what you've heard. say it, you don't have to spill names...

Player contracts: 2013

Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Couch ®, Magner ®, Rodan, Gillies

My understanding is the problem is with Neeld, but the desire to leave is not just because of the coach. The greater club must also take some responsibility.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

If this is the case, I would hope the Football Director and the board are aware of the risks of the uncontracted players walking - to not know would be dire.

Its not just uncontracted players, its contracted players considering asking to be traded.

[[email protected] 101]

That's THE big if, or at least A big if.

The best summary of our current position, and from inside the playing group, was the Chris Dawes' article. You would be really stretching it to see in that that Neeld had lost the playing group.

Is Dawes IN the "playing" Group ??? Yet to play !!

[rpfc 27,684]

The playing group is broken, they want out of this rabble of a club. If we wait until seasons end there WILL BE A MASS EXITUS. Half our list is out of contract. I have spoken in detail with a recently retired player about this. The situation is dire.

As deluded pointed out, and you have deflected, half of the group is not out of contract.

There was no mass exodus of players the FD wanted to keep and there won't be one this season.

Whether we move Neeld now or in August makes little difference to who will coach us next year.

And please keep our personal mental disintegration off of here by saying we will be extinct.

That is utter BS.

[stuie 7,374]

So, you say you had a lengthy discussion with the recently retired (MFC) player? was this player recently retired from the Demons, or played for another club, then retired?

.. and if true, do they want Misson gone? do they want NCraig gone? all the assistant coaches gone?

lets us know what you've heard. say it, you don't have to spill names...

Player contracts: 2013

Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Couch ®, Magner ®, Rodan, Gillies

Grimes re-signed a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-12/grimes-signs-new-three-year-deal

[old dee 23,256]

The problem for me is that compelling arguments can (and have been) made for giving Neeld his marching orders right now, or waiting until late in the season. I'm just stuffed if I know, mostly because I'm not close enough to the action to make a call which I'm completely comfortable with. I know things need to change, but as many of the learned posters above have indicated, timing is critical. I have splinters in my bum from sitting on the fence, but right now I don't know which way to jump. There may be an abyss on either side, and the viability of my much loved Demons is at stake.

That covers it for me too Deeoldfart. it is bloody frustrating.

I have all but given up on 2013 as we seem to be just heading to an inevitable conclusion. seems to be when not if.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

As deluded pointed out, and you have deflected, half of the group is not out of contract.

There was no mass exodus of players the FD wanted to keep and there won't be one this season.

Whether we move Neeld now or in August makes little difference to who will coach us next year.

And please keep our personal mental disintegration off of here by saying we will be extinct.

That is utter BS.

What, don't you think that 5 more years at the bottom of the table will cause us to go belly up?

If our better players decide they want out because we are a basket case and can't get along with the coach and we lose 3 -5 of them each season, like last year, we will remain at the bottom, we will become worse on the field, we will generate less money from gate receipts, and sponsorship and we will go belly up. The AFL will not save us. This is why we are now at the cross roads. The downside risks are enormous. Do not put your head in the sand on where we are at.

You may say changing the coach imminently will not make any difference, I fundamentally and absolutely disagree. Letting the rot set in any further will only see us fall deeper into the abyss.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[Fat Tony 4,597]

Neeld will become a poster boy of what not to do when you are appointed as an AFL senior coach. Instead of trying to encourage the young Demons group from the beginning, he was all ‘stick’– criticising the players in the media, belittling the former leadership group and denigrating the way they used to play and train. Moreover, Neeld introduced an ultra-defensive and complicated game plan. Clearly this was always going to take time to learn, but it should have been brought in gradually rather than trying to completely reinvent the wheel after Bailey. (As an aside, I believe having such a dogmatic view as to how best play the game is absurd given the way in which modern AFL football changes so quickly. And our game plan has looked obsolete from the get go.) The loss of confidence we are seeing on the ground today still stems from the impact of Neeld’s initial days, particularly the first game loss against Brisbane. A few of us saw this problem early on but we were hosed down by the Demonland mob.

I think it best to cut Neeld immediately. We need to give hope to our best young talent coming out of contract in the next two years and it would give one of our young assistants the chance to prove their worth. Ideally we would find the next Paul Roos or Terry Wallace.

As for whom takes over as senior coach thereafter, we should cast a wider net this time and not just pick an assistant from one of the top clubs. Coaching a poor club like Melbourne requires greater levels of innovation than coaching one of the top clubs, as the MFC needs to be much smarter about our use of resources. Experience as a senior coach would be preferred, but we shouldn’t discount anyone, particularly a smart, hard working assistant with an ordinary playing record from a poor club. On the surface, my preferred option would be Mark Williams. Moreover, we shouldn’t overpay the coach. We would be better off spending more money boosting the recruiting department.

[Weedster 174]

The reality of our situation is that the team has lost one game (to Port) that we expected to win, we have lost several by margins greater than acceptable that we expected to lose and most recently lost to Brissie in Brisbane by 28 points... not a huge surprise.

Much of what you say is correct, however the truer picture is that the only game we have won in Neeld's time is the one we fluked against Essendon. The other wins were against the expansion sides. Moreover, we have not even been close to a win in any other games, not close, and that tells the real picture of where we are at. I doubt there's been a worse record in recent AFL history.

[dee-luded 2,958]

My understanding is the problem is with Neeld, but the desire to leave is not just because of the coach. The greater club must also take some responsibility.

If you can't elaborate more than that,,, what the players are said to want, then this can't be thought thru, & so is useless information. it only becomes a rumour & nothing more if you can't articulate it in more detail.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I can't name the player as he is still involved with the club (thus should know), however, as I said he is recently retired and was a well liked senior player. What I am saying is not speculation. Last June I posted that Martin, Pettard, Moloney, Rivers, Davey and Green had all had major fallings out with Neeld. I said the only one of this group that would be here in 2013 was Davey as he was the only one in contract and too old to trade. I was savaged on this forum............. 5 months later it was reality. Let me say, the situation this season is far worse than last season. What I say may be second hand, but it is true. My past record must be taken into account, evidence in the performance of the players, evidence from other sources backs up what I am saying. Something is very wrong, many more players are preparing to leave.

This is Neeld's responsibility, he is a dud. He has done untold damage. If this situation is not sorted shortly he will bring down our club. We will become extinct. That is how serious things are.

I am on my knees, I am begging, the board must fire Nelld now or take ultimate responsibility for the death of the club.

With due respect to you Grand New Flag, of those players you've noted here (Martin, Pettard, Moloney, Rivers, Davey and Green), most of the old guard, I would have moved on via trade some years ago, hanging onto Riv, & the younger ones at that time...

As of last year, I wanted all traded/gone except maybe Petterd, who I thought could still play, but wasn't sure if we could get his attitude turned back around.

I wanted us to trade green & davey, some years ago. as I new back then we were 'bruise free'. (this is the culture we have to kill off)

Moloney was in another basket.

So I think the footy dept are on the right track with the ones who have gone, /Even if it is painful to us all to see players we have become attached to playing/being elsewhere.

Deep down in the pits of our stomachs we know they were NQR's...

[timD 994]

I can see the players are bereft of confidence in themselves and each other.

And while that is the burden of the coach it doesn't mean he that 'the players aren't playing for him.'

You can dial back the dramaticism - I have said since the Essendon game that Neeld is to be removed should our performances continue the way they have.

I just put forward the notion that removing Neeld will not solve our personnel issues simply for the fact that it will not solve our personnel issues.

Dial back the dramaticism? WFT? We've had years of pox, are burning out our players and risk losing another 5 years worth of development but you reckon "it is a big 'if'" and I should "dial down the dramaticism"?

When someone as careful, thorough and considered as Fifty-five is saying that the coach has gotta go, it is a conclusion that you know has been reached with no dramatics at all. You also know that the risks have been weighed up.

[Macca 16,174]

If we keep Mark Neeld on there's a good chance we will continue to get smashed. If that happens then ...

Crowds will continue to drop off.

Membership will be negatively affected.

Sponsors will drop off and our ability to attract them will diminish.

Our financial 'bottom line' has to be affected negatively.

Players will want out (whether they're contracted or not)

Our ability to attract talent will dissipate.

Prime time games on TV - forget about it.

Confidence within the club will get worse.

Confidence within the supporter base will diminish.

It will take longer to recover and heal.

This following could be said about Mark Neeld ...

Talks tough but can't deliver.

Continually makes excuses.

Never talks about winning games (it's all about the process)

Has tried to implement an outdated game plan (hugging the boundary)

Has let 2 senior players go who shouldn't have been let go.

Plays certain players out of position when it's obviously poorly thought out.

Has poor overall coaching skills (otherwise the team would be adhering to the fundamentals of the game - which we don't)

He continually makes comments which are hard to substantiate ...

"We will be the hardest team to play against"

"I will give you a game plan"

"The players will need 3 or 4 years to learn the game plan"

"The players will need 3 full pre-seasons to get fit"

"We didn't see that coming"

"Any of you people in the media got any ideas?"

"We are at GWS level" ...

It also should be noted that we don't have a great list. But it is a list that is under performing to very large degree.

Many of our players are nowhere their potential and there are too many under performing for it to be a coincidence.

The coach's primary role is to get the best out of his players. That isn't happening.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Macca

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

With due respect to you Grand New Flag, of those players you've noted here (Martin, Pettard, Moloney, Rivers, Davey and Green), most of the old guard, I would have moved on via trade some years ago, hanging onto Riv, & the younger ones at that time...

As of last year, I wanted all traded/gone except maybe Petterd, who I thought could still play, but wasn't sure if we could get his attitude turned back around.

I wanted us to trade green & davey, some years ago. as I new back then we were 'bruise free'. (this is the culture we have to kill off)

Moloney was in another basket.

So I think the footy dept are on the right track with the ones who have gone, /Even if it is painful to us all to see players we have become attached to playing/being elsewhere.

Deep down in the pits of our stomachs we know they were NQR's...

I disagree, I would have kept all these players. They are our experianced players, we had already moved on far too many experianced players too quickly. This is part of the problem. Even that dud Neeld recognised this with the recruitment of senior players.

Moloney life long Dees supporter. Moloney is Moloney and not perfect, but as a big bodied clearance player, he is exactly what we need. Simply we are smashed in the centre square. He would be our second best mid-fielder. It is rubbish to suggest we are not significantly worse off without him

Pettard: lost his spirit under Neeld.Lost his confidence and ability. Now playing excellent football for Richmond.

Martin: had a famous blowup with Neeld mid season. He never played seniors again. He is a far better prospect than Pederson, Seller, or Gillies. Until injured was playing outstanding football for Brisbane.

Rivers: A terrible loss, no one can argue. If he thought we were on track he would have stayed. Was unhappy with his treatment when dumped from leadership group.

Green: Better than Roden. Why dump Green and then recruit a senior player like Roden?

Simply this is part of the reason why we have gone backwards. Out of all of traded recruits only Brynes deserves praise. The rest have given us nothing and far less than the list of Dees that Neeld delt out.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[daisycutter 28,724]

Neeld will take care of Neeld - eg:: If he keeps getting flogged he will go

There is no need to panic - the odds of him being coach at the end of 2013 are pretty slim - I don't understand why posters feel the need to rush this

We are going to be a poor side in 2013 no matter who is coach. Anyone who thinks Neeld doesn't deserve a chance to finish the 2013 season is either stupid or has an agenda.

If anyone says the players will benefit - you are delusional - exactly how is the playing group going to improve without Neeld there? THe players play on game day not the coach, All the same issues with Neeld there are still going to be there without Neeld

just to be a little mischievous....

but i was only wondering yesterday if the players would possibly play better with no coach

[rpfc 27,684]

Dial back the dramaticism? WFT? We've had years of pox, are burning out our players and risk losing another 5 years worth of development but you reckon "it is a big 'if'" and I should "dial down the dramaticism"?

When someone as careful, thorough and considered as Fifty-five is saying that the coach has gotta go, it is a conclusion that you know has been reached with no dramatics at all. You also know that the risks have been weighed up.

Dial it down and read my posts.

I have no idea why you jumped on what I said - you and I both do not know why the players are bereft of confidence in themselves and each other. It is Neeld's burden to bear no matter what the reason - I just do not think it is as simple as a collective group 'not playing for him.'

I think it is a little deeper than that. That is what I am saying and have said.

As for whether the coach has 'gotta go' - I agree and have said as much since the Bombers game.

I do not think the answer to our current predicament is as easy as 'Neeld gone = players confident.'

[Craig Drinker 179]

Neeld will become a poster boy of what not to do when you are appointed as an AFL senior coach. Instead of trying to encourage the young Demons group from the beginning, he was all ‘stick’– criticising the players in the media, belittling the former leadership group and denigrating the way they used to play and train. Moreover, Neeld introduced an ultra-defensive and complicated game plan. Clearly this was always going to take time to learn, but it should have been brought in gradually rather than trying to completely reinvent the wheel after Bailey. (As an aside, I believe having such a dogmatic view as to how best play the game is absurd given the way in which modern AFL football changes so quickly. And our game plan has looked obsolete from the get go.) The loss of confidence we are seeing on the ground today still stems from the impact of Neeld’s initial days, particularly the first game loss against Brisbane. A few of us saw this problem early on but we were hosed down by the Demonland mob.

I think it best to cut Neeld immediately. We need to give hope to our best young talent coming out of contract in the next two years and it would give one of our young assistants the chance to prove their worth. Ideally we would find the next Paul Roos or Terry Wallace.

As for whom takes over as senior coach thereafter, we should cast a wider net this time and not just pick an assistant from one of the top clubs. Coaching a poor club like Melbourne requires greater levels of innovation than coaching one of the top clubs, as the MFC needs to be much smarter about our use of resources. Experience as a senior coach would be preferred, but we shouldn’t discount anyone, particularly a smart, hard working assistant with an ordinary playing record from a poor club. On the surface, my preferred option would be Mark Williams. Moreover, we shouldn’t overpay the coach. We would be better off spending more money boosting the recruiting department.

Terry Wallace ????????

[rpfc 27,684]

God, I wish we would shut the F___ up about Neeld.

This is nothing more than dancing on graves unless you are stupid enough to think that if this form keeps up we will not make a change.

He has a family and is a person and we are 47 pages into a storyline that has been written since the Bombers game and hasn't chaged since.

We are gaining nothing but losing something with this constant vitriol.

[Roost It 1,434]

Moloney is Moloney and not perfect, but as a big bodied clearance player, he is exactly what we need. Simply we are smashed in the centre square. He woudl be our second best mid-fielder. It is rubbish to suggest we are not worse off without him (DOWNHILL SKIER BUT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT-CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST TYPED THAT)

Pettard: lost his spirit under Neeld.Lost his confidence and ability. Now playing excellent football for Richmond.(BIG CALL)

Martin: had a famous blowup with Neeld mid season. He never player seniors again. He is a far better prospect than Pederson, Seller, or Gillies. (AGREED)

Rivers: A terrible loss, no one can argue. If he though we were on track he would have stayed. )AGREED)

Green: Better than Roden. Why dump Green and then recruit a senior player like Roden. (AGREED)

Simply this is part of the reason why we have gone backwards. Out of all of traded recruits only Brynes deserves praise. The rest have given us nothing and far less than the list of Dees that Neeld delt out.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Roost It

[Fat Tony 4,597]

Terry Wallace ????????

The two years after Wallace took over the Bulldogs they made successive prelims. The point was that both he and Roos showed enough in a caretaker role to be given the job the following year. This is the rationale for moving now and giving someone else an audition for the role.

[dee-luded 2,958]

What, don't you think that 5 more years at the bottom of the table will cause us to go belly up?

If our better players decide they want out because we are a basket case and can't get along with the coach and we lose 3 -5 of them each season, like last year, we will remain at the bottom, we will become worse on the field, we will generate less money from gate receipts, and sponsorship and we will go belly up. The AFL will not save us. This is why we are now at the cross roads. The downside risks are enormous. Do not put your head in the sand on where we are at.

You may say changing the coach imminently will not make any difference, I fundamentally and absolutely disagree. Letting the rot set in any further will only see us fall deeper into the abyss.

Nup...

the single biggest danger of this club, is to Not Fix the Rotten Soft Culture this Club has endured for the best part of 40 Yrs.

making change like this is very uncomfortable, 7 meets with huge resistance from players & from some staff....and, this is why its such a tough job for a coach to do.

I know this stuff very well from around footy clubs, & I have had to change myself over my journey, & have learnt from experts.

I was one of these types when I was young, & I took on the new foreman at our work resisting & challenging his regimented ways.. He got rid of me a couple of times.. until I decided I didn't want to go back.

I understand well what has happened at Melbourne over the decades, & I understand former players discomfort with the changes, & I understand former & current players would not "Get It",,, understand the need to change it, nor Why.

But anyone can see, that decades of coaches, & decades of recruits & players, Not fulfilling their talents, is a hallmark of our Once great Club.

Don't Panic..... reacting out of fear & ignorance is the worst possible way to handle a situation where change is being undertaken.