Footy Classified Lifts the Lid on Carlton & Richmond's Tanking 2007

[Jonesbag 487]

Don't think that's the case, Garry Lyon mention Caroline Wilson will be back next week in FC.

FML!!!!

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

It took me awhile to convince myself to watch it, only because of the fact of seeing whats-her-face on TV. Then I found out one moron was replaced by other moron, (Kennett),who is the past has also taken some decent swipes at the MFC.

Well, what a surprise, clearly the best FC show ever. It is a must see if anyone missed it.

Footy classified and all other shows (including all major newspapers) should have covered this 7 months ago,I am on record as saying an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth wasnt the right way to go. The AFL would have been far better off, finding MFC not guilty on all counts, dismissed the case, stood up and admitted their flawed system was to blame. BUT let this be a warning to all, any breachments in future will be thoroughly investigated would be severely dealt with. Cased closed!

To me it highlighted a few things, I was surprised Kennett hadnt seen Libbas interview prior to last night, he was genuinely shocked.

I don't know why it's a surprise that Kennett hadn't seen Libba's interview before.

I myself had only seen a short grab of the interview before.

What I saw last night was completely damning of Demetriou and his underlings at the AFL.

To not have investigated Carlton in greater depth after that and now hide their heads in the sand about it but, at the same time, to spend 7 plus months on Melbourne is disgraceful.

Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

would be fitting for BP too

Wouldn't matter to BP if they lost early round draft picks, he'd stuff it up anyway.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

To be honest i hope they don't investigate other clubs for tanking. We should just accept we were unlucky and move on. Who wants/needs any more tanking palaver saturating the footy news. It's not going to help us if another clubs gets slugged

I think most people know we were just one of several clubs who were not always trying to maximise the chances of winning in order to gain a benefit at a subsequent draft. Perhaps that's a positive, we're done and dusted on the issue - other clubs might be worried their turn might come. As another poster noted perhaps it even might help foster an us against the world vibe amongst the playing group.

On other clubs - there was quite a few comments by CW and on DL suggesting our management practices meant we had some very disgruntled ex employees and that this was a factor. This may well be the case. However there often seemed to be an implication that this was a peculiarly Melbourne thing.

Well i would suggest there may be more than one disgruntled ex Essendon employee and players for that matter (also some pretty angry current players).

Also IIRC a whole raft of Carlton employees were given the bullet when MM rode into town and were none too happy about it. There was talk of legal action, in large part due to issues such as unfair dismissal and how it was carried out (ruthlessly and without much, if any, warning) Perhaps Carlton are better at ensuring angry ex employees don't go looking for revenge. For their sake i hope that's the case or else they might find someone leaking inside info to some muckraking journalist.

St kilda seem to have their fair share of angry ex employees over the years - Grant Thomas, Stan Alves and Malcolm Blight immediately spring to mind.

In fact when its all said and done all clubs probably have their share of disgruntled ex employees so perhaps poor man management is the industry standard.

We've been [censored] canned by supporters of other clubs, including those that tanked and haven't been investigated, so I'm happy for there to be a wide ranging enquiry.

This has cost us an enormous amount of time, energy and money so I'd like to see the other clubs put through the ringer as well; you either investigate all or none. The AFL should have called an amnesty and said it may have been done before but pity help anyone that does it again. Our name has been singled out and blackened and I don't want us to stand out as the cheats of the competition I'd like everyone to know it was just standard procedure for clubs that were struggling.

I'm over the issue but I would still like the AFL to fess up and admit they got it wrong and we were not alone.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites

Couldnt agree more mate!

[CatFishPig 462]

Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites.

Not a truer word spoken.

I still find it hard to believe, that when Brock said tanking is why he left the club, he then went to Carlton.. It's mind blowing..

[dee-luded 2,959]

It would be ironic of Carltank were sanctioned because of this just after MM arrived. From memory the last premiership coach saviour for their club, Dennis Pagan, was cruelled by the salary cap cheating revelations not long after he arrived. Would stop MM in is tracks.

Couldn't happen to two better blokes (MM and DP) and a better club.

Cut em off at the knees.

Pagan was crucified by those venous blooded recyclers of other clubs people. recycled old notes has always been the stock in trade.

packaged thus

[dee-luded 2,959]

What's the point, they'll be out of work by the time this gathers momentum.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Lets get over this guys.

We knew seven months ago it was not fair.

There will be no other investigation.

Can we just worry about winning a game tonight and 7- 8 this year.

Please!!!!

No old dee.

This AFL is in need of a thorough Spring clean & emptying of the hoarded rubbish their house is full of, including all the old black mailing photos used to pull clubs into their line of thinking.

We need this to move the game forward.

If its not now, it will continue collecting dirt until one day explodes the game like a Hydrogen Bomb.

Clean it now, while we are in the mood to get it done.

[diesel 420]

I don't know why it's a surprise that Kennett hadn't seen Libba's interview before.

I myself had only seen a short grab of the interview before.

What I saw last night was completely damning of Demetriou and his underlings at the AFL.

To not have investigated Carlton in greater depth after that and now hide their heads in the sand about it but, at the same time, to spend 7 plus months on Melbourne is disgraceful.

Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites.

Bartlett yesterday said that Carlton weren't investigated because there was no evidence but there was at Melbourne. WRONG KB. The Melbourne investigation was instigated by Brock Mcleans suspicion which on its own was less incriminating or at least the same as what Libba said.

Libba's opening up should have set off MORE alarm bells since he was in the coaching department FCS. IIRC he was questioned once (only him) and that was it besides an explanation of the Melb. v Carlton game from Ratten. The AFL's differential treatment of the 2 incidences borders on corrupt.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

Bartlett yesterday said that Carlton weren't investigated because there was no evidence but there was at Melbourne. WRONG KB. The Melbourne investigation was instigated by Brock Mcleans suspicion which on its own was less incriminating or at least the same as what Libba said.

Libba's opening up should have set off MORE alarm bells since he was in the coaching department FCS. IIRC he was questioned once (only him) and that was it besides an explanation of the Melb. v Carlton game from Ratten. The AFL's differential treatment of the 2 incidences borders on corrupt.

of course it is corrupt, but will it boil over.

If it does the AFL will have no choice.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Lets get over this guys.

We knew seven months ago it was not fair.

There will be no other investigation.

Can we just worry about winning a game tonight and 7- 8 this year.

Please!!!!

hey od, can't you chew gum and walk at the same time?

[sue 9,145]

Like WJ, I had only seen or heard of a tiny part of Libba's interview before. Staggering. Absolutely outrageous that that wasn't re-investigated when MFC was.

Were those posters on this forum who claim to know-it-all and took the "we tanked, we must cop it alone" line, unaware of the full Libba stuff? Sorry to open old wounds that are now better healed, but I am ropeable.

I am totally disgusted with the AFL.

If the AFL doesn't quietly refund our $500k and compensate DB and CC likewise they will rot in hell (the other one, not the Demon's one) .

My favorite moment in FC was when Richmond's tanking was raised and Kennet said something like 'Richmond?' and he pulled out his pen and muttered "Richmond" as he wrote something down. Best watched rather than described.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Haven't heard squat about last night's episode in media coverage so far today.

It speaks volumes.

We're the patsy. And we've been bent over thanks to our own former disgruntled people and the AFL that Anderson said on outgoing that it was full of integrity, that he was leaving it in a better position.

What a load of sh!t.

McQueen - Melbourne is the only team investigated because it's the first real case the new integrity unit got their claws into; plus snitches came forward still bristling from 186 and having been moved on by an uncomprimising and ruthless Neeld/Mfc.

If you want other teams investigated thoroughly and have any findings; they need to talk to people with long held grudges who got their nose out of joint.

Or people who have spoken to Carlton board members....

it was probably a bit late at night to meet the printing press deadlines ht

but i take your point anyway

[hardtack 10,627]

If the AFL doesn't quietly refund our $500k and compensate DB and CC likewise they will rot in hell (the other one, not the Demon's one) .

"Quietly"??!! I would expect a very public apology, and not only from the AFL.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Bartlett yesterday said that Carlton weren't investigated because there was no evidence but there was at Melbourne. WRONG KB. The Melbourne investigation was instigated by Brock Mcleans suspicion which on its own was less incriminating or at least the same as what Libba said.

Libba's opening up should have set off MORE alarm bells since he was in the coaching department FCS. IIRC he was questioned once (only him) and that was it besides an explanation of the Melb. v Carlton game from Ratten. The AFL's differential treatment of the 2 incidences borders on corrupt.

The difference is, one club has been down for 45 years, & so some Journo's find the easy target of a body prostrate on the ground, very easy to kick, with not much chance of retaliation.

...gutless, bullying, lazy & self serving selective journalism.

Kick a person when they're down, just shows how far back in our culture & values we have traveled in the last 40 odd Years. all downhill running.

... and protectionism & pampering of powerful Clubs by those in the Ivory towers. ssshhh, is the name of the modern game. and mine, & share the spoils of the AFL competition amongst the power gang.

[Pates 9,660]

Bartlett yesterday said that Carlton weren't investigated because there was no evidence........

That's funny, I thought the point of an investigation was uncover evidence. And you start an investigation if there is an accusation or a belief of having done something wrong. There certainly wasn't any evidence apart from a "feeling" from Brock McLean.

[hardtack 10,627]

That's funny, I thought the point of an investigation was uncover evidence. And you start an investigation if there is an accusation or a belief of having done something wrong. There certainly wasn't any evidence apart from a "feeling" from Brock McLean.

I haven't noticed this raised in any of the multitude of threads, but the most disheartening thing about McLean's appearance on OTC is that if Nathan Jones hadn't withdrawn from a guest spot on the show, McLean wouldn't have been on and this whole charade might never have taken off. (according to Jake Nial's article the other day: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-goal-that-undid-the-dees-20130220-2ero3.html). Oh the pain!

Edited February 22, 2013 by hardtack

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

An email i recieved yesterday.....

So very true....

Dear Carlton Football Club,

For the past 100 years we've had a rich history of salary cap breaching, rape hush money, underworld ties, tanking, poaching players, draft tampering, owning Arden Street, VISY, corporate corruption, & brown paper bags. We have the biggest trophy cabinet in the league and decades of constant success driven by a win-at-all-costs mentality while showing utter disregard for all AFL rules. As a passionate supporter I have fully embraced our culture and I am extremely proud of what it had allowed us achieve.

So when I heard about this systematic doping scandal I expected that as a powerhouse club we would be at the absolute forefront of this science. That we would have set up our own underground drug labs and the worlds best sport scientists concocting all sorts of performance enhancing recipes in-house that no-one had ever heard of - anabolic leg injections to make Armfield kick straight, peptide pills that would cure Aaron Joseph's utter "shi tness" and some sort of animal DNA mutation therapy to remove McLean's turtle-like qualities. We'd probably even be conducting illegal human testing on Norf's second tier playing list as a part of our ownership of their club.

But no, we are in the middle of the biggest cheating scandal in AFL history and Carlton is not even one little bit involved. Not a single mention, not even a hint of a mention. In fact the only drugs administered at the Carlton Football Club over the past few years are botox injections by Bryce Gibbs' beautician.

There may be loser clubs like the saints & Bulldogs who would be happy to accept decades of mediocrity while playing within AFL rules - but not Carlton supporters. The fact that undetectable performance-enhancing drugs exists and we are not fully exploiting them to our advantage is an utter disgrace. It goes against the fabric and principles that this very club was built on.

You have changed Carlton. You have lost the very identity that made you a huge success and the envy of 15 other clubs. Get back to your roots, cheat your hearts out and start ordering a few more shelves for our club's trophy cabinet.

[Guest]

As said earlier, it would be nice to see Jeffrey replace Lloyd to keep Caro honest. He can be arrogant but one thing he doesn't do is tolerate fools. I couldn't stand him as premier and his comments about our club have grated but he knows about corporate governance and bureaucracy and that shone through last night. He interjected when the occasion demanded it but he was prepared to hear people out.

I get the feeling that he has now completely come to grips with the 1999 election. He realizes that his style doesn't vibe with everyone so he tries to be a little more conciliatory when the situation calls for it. Yet if something needs to be challenged, he will do it. This is also shown by his comments on people in leadership for 6-8 years. If anything illustrated this, it was his reign as premier of Victoria.

That being said, if he stood for parliament again tomorrow, I would vote against him.

[Pates 9,660]

I haven't noticed this raised in any of the multitude of threads, but the most disheartening thing about McLean's appearance on OTC is that if Nathan Jones hadn't withdrawn from a guest spot on the show, McLean wouldn't have been on and this whole charade might never have taken off. (according to Jake Nial's article the other day: http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-goal-that-undid-the-dees-20130220-2ero3.html). Oh the pain!

Yeah I saw that article, I was wondering who to blame for all this and now I know. Nate Jones put your hand up and accept your punishment! (Tongue firmly in cheek!)

It is amazing the sliding doors of the world, a fair few things conspired to lead to McLean being on OTC, Jonesy back out, his resurgence and the match winning accidental goal.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

As said earlier, it would be nice to see Jeffrey replace Lloyd to keep Caro honest. He can be arrogant but one thing he doesn't do is tolerate fools. I couldn't stand him as premier and his comments about our club have grated but he knows about corporate governance and bureaucracy and that shone through last night. He interjected when the occasion demanded it but he was prepared to hear people out.

I get the feeling that he has now completely come to grips with the 1999 election. He realizes that his style doesn't vibe with everyone so he tries to be a little more conciliatory when the situation calls for it. Yet if something needs to be challenged, he will do it. This is also shown by his comments on people in leadership for 6-8 years. If anything illustrated this, it was his reign as premier of Victoria.

That being said, if he stood for parliament again tomorrow, I would vote against him.

Perhaps he could take over from Dimwit as CEO of the AFL; trouble is he'd probably privatise it and sell off the clubs. Then again Demonland could bid for the MFC and we could have a few of our more knowledgeable posters run it on our behalf?

[dee-luded 2,959]

As said earlier, it would be nice to see Jeffrey replace Lloyd to keep Caro honest. He can be arrogant but one thing he doesn't do is tolerate fools. I couldn't stand him as premier and his comments about our club have grated but he knows about corporate governance and bureaucracy and that shone through last night. He interjected when the occasion demanded it but he was prepared to hear people out.

I get the feeling that he has now completely come to grips with the 1999 election. He realizes that his style doesn't vibe with everyone so he tries to be a little more conciliatory when the situation calls for it. Yet if something needs to be challenged, he will do it. This is also shown by his comments on people in leadership for 6-8 years. If anything illustrated this, it was his reign as premier of Victoria.

That being said, if he stood for parliament again tomorrow, I would vote against him.

... what, you think one sided journalism has its place to stay in front of our senses?

IMO it should be cut out like an Alien from the movie.

Edited February 22, 2013 by dee-luded

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

The problem is, as I understand (didn't watch the show) Liba has no evidence of a direction only a feeling. I agree that if it was enough to start a more serious investigation give how ours started though.

WJ, have the recent events made you give more consideration to the information you have?

[daisycutter 29,743]

The problem is, as I understand (didn't watch the show) Liba has no evidence of a direction only a feeling. I agree that if it was enough to start a more serious investigation give how ours started though.

WJ, have the recent events made you give more consideration to the information you have?

watch the show.......then give an opinion....its more damning than i thought, and i don't think i had ever seen the full interview before

its on youtube (see above for link)