Rivers is still essential to our list, our back six were not terrible this year and I feel he is the link, if he goes good luck to him he's been ace, but I think he's been our 'fletcher' (not as much of a mongrel mind you, and not as good a spoiler) but on the whole really does those little things you need from a smart defender that other don't have.

Don't want to lose Rivers but if it's a 3 year deal he wants no way I'd give it to him. 2 max and even that would be pushing it.

By the way I agree with jackaub except for the rock star in his own mind thing. He was talking about Jamar and I agree with him, Jamar doesn't really do anything around the ground and has only had one good season. He can win the tap but it never goes to advantage.

I think Rivers is worth 3 years. Not a problem in my book.

I would hate too lose him.

We could things around very quickly! We smashed the Swans, Crows & Dockers in the last 2 years.

Now look at them!

Don't want to lose Rivers but if it's a 3 year deal he wants no way I'd give it to him. 2 max and even that would be pushing it.

By the way I agree with jackaub except for the rock star in his own mind thing. He was talking about Jamar and I agree with him, Jamar doesn't really do anything around the ground and has only had one good season. He can win the tap but it never goes to advantage.

Here is an equation for you:

x = Good ruckman

y = Good midfield

z = Taps to advantage

x + y = z

x + MFC midfield = Not z

Here is an equation for you:

x = Good ruckman

y = Good midfield

z = Taps to advantage

x + y = z

x + MFC midfield = Not z

That's a factor but is too simplistic. And anyway it is his around the ground work which is the bigger issue in my book. Doesn't push forward, doesn't drop back, isn't a great link up player, always looks for the handball, not a great leading target for kickouts (just sit it on his head) does not equal 3 year contract. Especially when he is approaching 30 and we have Martin, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Spencer on the list (I acknowledge there are question marks on all these guys but surely 2 years would have sufficed.)

That's a factor but is too simplistic. And anyway it is his around the ground work which is the bigger issue in my book. Doesn't push forward, doesn't drop back, isn't a great link up player, always looks for the handball, not a great leading target for kickouts (just sit it on his head) does not equal 3 year contract. Especially when he is approaching 30 and we have Martin, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Spencer on the list (I acknowledge there are question marks on all these guys but surely 2 years would have sufficed.)

So the issue is with one year?

Can play when 31 and 'jolly good show MFC!' to suddenly a liability when 32 and 'what are we doing?!'...

Martin is a back-up ruck who doesn't know how to play without being 1st ruck, Gawn is a kid who won't be ready for years, Spencer is a brute force but has shown less around the ground than Jamar, and Fitzpatrick looks lost to me in the ruck.

Jamar is a good ruck and I prefer his 4 kick, 8 handball, 40 hitouts, 1 goal games (ie. a good game), to getting 10 kicks and 10 hanballs out of a running ruckman whose job it is to be tall but seems to think he is small.

He is a presence and he can dominate the middle.

That's what I want out of ruckman with a developing midfield.

Problem for Riv is, although he reads the play very well and is a good negator, he's not big enough to handle gorillas and not agile enough to handle Milnes and Stevie Js .... so there's limited space for him in our back 6.

In 3 years, there might be no place in AFL for a player of his size/type.

Problem for Riv is, although he reads the play very well and is a good negator, he's not big enough to handle gorillas and not agile enough to handle Milnes and Stevie Js .... so there's limited space for him in our back 6.

....................................

Interestingly, Rivers is the same height (192) as Scarlett, and only 2 kgs (92) lighter; just not as strong.

Scarlett spent the last 4 years of his career playing the rivers zone off role.

I still think Jared has at least 3 in him given the amount of footy he missed early on in his career

Interestingly, Rivers is the same height (192) as Scarlett, and only 2 kgs (92) lighter; just not as strong.

Or as fast. or as smart.

One line update in this article on Rivers:

"Melbourne midfielder Jordan Gysberts is understood to no longer be in the Cats' sights, while they may also struggle to accommodate his teammate Jared Rivers due to list management pressures."

Jared might have to take a paycut if he wants to play for them!

http://www.afl.com.a...x?newsid=149595

One line update in this article on Rivers:

"Melbourne midfielder Jordan Gysberts is understood to no longer be in the Cats' sights, while they may also struggle to accommodate his teammate Jared Rivers due to list management pressures."

Jared might have to take a paycut if he wants to play for them!

http://www.afl.com.a...x?newsid=149595

Caddy has replaced any need for Gysberts. Mitch Brown is available and someone on another thread suggested we offer the compo for Rivers and I would add Moloney and Bate's, if he goes, if Rivers goes to them for Brown. Brown is a big boy with a lot of upside. If we got Dawes and Brown and maybe Pedersen that would be it. We could trade Martin then without concern.

So the issue is with one year?

Can play when 31 and 'jolly good show MFC!' to suddenly a liability when 32 and 'what are we doing?!'...

Martin is a back-up ruck who doesn't know how to play without being 1st ruck, Gawn is a kid who won't be ready for years, Spencer is a brute force but has shown less around the ground than Jamar, and Fitzpatrick looks lost to me in the ruck.

Jamar is a good ruck and I prefer his 4 kick, 8 handball, 40 hitouts, 1 goal games (ie. a good game), to getting 10 kicks and 10 hanballs out of a running ruckman whose job it is to be tall but seems to think he is small.

He is a presence and he can dominate the middle.

That's what I want out of ruckman with a developing midfield.

Well in an ideal world we would already be planning Jamar's succession so 2 years would be being generous with him hopefully being phased out in year 2. A 3 year contract for someone of his age and with his ability I think is too much - he had a fantastic 2010 but the rest of his career has been neither here nor there.

BTW I don't know where you're pulling these stats from but I'd like to know how often Jamar actually kicks at least one goal a game and how often he actually gets more than 2 kicks. You may just want a lumbering one dimensional giant who wins the tap and disappears but I would rather a Cox/Stynes type player who is effective around the ground as well as in the ruck. If Jamar was truly effective as a big man he would either plug the hole down back or push forward to pressure the opposition defense and he would also provide a decent target for our kick outs instead of just standing 60 metres out on the boundary and asking the full back to kick it on top of his head.

I don't want to give the wrong impression, I am not a Jamar hater and I think he fills a need - and despite the number of rucks on our list you're right none of them have shown that they will be capable of being first ruck, or even a decent back-up ruck - in the future. It's not the end of the world but frankly in the best of all possible worlds I'd like to think we would have only signed Jamar to 2 years.

My issue is with this - the idea that a 2 year contract means sense and a succession plan in place, but 3 years is irresponsible?

I think it would have been far worse had we gone into 2013 with Martin, Spencer, and Gawn as our ruck contingent than giving Jamar a contract at 32.

One line update in this article on Rivers:

"Melbourne midfielder Jordan Gysberts is understood to no longer be in the Cats' sights, while they may also struggle to accommodate his teammate Jared Rivers due to list management pressures."

Jared might have to take a paycut if he wants to play for them!

http://www.afl.com.a...x?newsid=149595

I actually think it's more to do with how many current players they have, not how much they are paying them. It's starting to sound more and more likely he'll stay at Melbourne with these new developments, if he can't get to the Cats I don't see him going anywhere else.

Since Gysberts has been mentioned in this article as well, I hope the Neeld coaching panel give him another crack. I've always liked him, and you can't use last year as a measuring stick given his badly interrupted year.

I think that the main problem with Gysberts is his attitude.......He thought he should have been given a game when the FD thought the opposite......I think he has a high opinion of himself which not all at the footy club agree....

Balme on Sen seemed to suggest that tom Gillies should look for opportunity elsewhere. Possibly to free up space for rivers.

Balme on Sen seemed to suggest that tom Gillies should look for opportunity elsewhere. Possibly to free up space for rivers.

Yep sounds like they're ll playing games now, re free agency points & who they can get in the pre season D.

The Cats have picked up a young mid they've wanted since missing Boak.

But they Haven't replaced the tall defender.

Yet.

Balme on Sen seemed to suggest that tom Gillies should look for opportunity elsewhere. Possibly to free up space for rivers.

Pretty hard to draw any other conclusion. Would have thought Gillies was a walk up with Scarlett gone but he's gone from being promised extra games last year to being pushed out the door this year.

It's being tweeted that we will give a second round compo pick for Perdesen, so could that indicate that they believe Rivers is gone?... Beamer and Rivers out, Byrne in = 2nd round compo pick as the balance.

It's being tweeted that we will give a second round compo pick for Perdesen, so could that indicate that they believe Rivers is gone?... Beamer and Rivers out, Byrne in = 2nd round compo pick as the balance.

I was just thinking the same thing hardtack.

Looks like Rivers deal will be done next week to me.

Scarlett spent the last 4 years of his career playing the rivers zone off role.

I still think Jared has at least 3 in him given the amount of footy he missed early on in his career

Ben Hur and Ted Fidge sum it up well.......... I like Rivers but he is no star

Personally I hate the Rivers comparison to Scarlett, Rivers is a great reader of the play and a decent shut down player, but Rivers has little to no offensive value at all.

Scarlett is an All Australian who consistantly beat his oppenents and was very damaging goning forward - Rivers is not....

I will say Rivers will be a handy pick up by Geelong, they have ball users Rivers can offload too, MFC don't

I was just thinking the same thing hardtack.

Looks like Rivers deal will be done next week to me.

It's sounding like that.

It's looking like Watts is going to be playing the role that Rivers was covering so well in early 2012 and we have three solid KP defenders in Frawley, McDonald and Sellar. Not entirely sure where he fits in if he does stay, maybe it'd allow Watts to move onto the wing but when he's developing so well down back I'm quite happy for him to stay there.

Frawley, McDonald, Garland, Watts, Dunn, Sellar