Schwab re-signs for three years

[Cards13 9,117]

More importantly, appointing his dad as recruitment manager this year is a demonstration of Schwab's terrible judgement and an expression of the "boys club" culture that saved Cameron's neck last year.

Hazy was this a Schwab only call, I'd be surprised as I would have thought that was a footy Dept/Board sign off call not a CEO only call? Maybe it has to do with the fact we seem to struggle to find much talent across all positions.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Hazy was this a Schwab only call, I'd be surprised as I would have thought that was a footy Dept/Board sign off call not a CEO only call? Maybe it has to do with the fact we seem to struggle to find much talent across all positions.

Fair comment about who's call it was. I'll admit I am not completely sure. Accepted practice is for the CEO to make such appointments, a responsible Board would not involve themselves with such a decision at the micro level. Having said that, the relationship between Schwab and the Board is such that it is now very difficult to tell who is making the calls or it they are all made jointly with no oversight. Of course, this is itself an indictment.

Not sure I agree on the talent finding part. I would have thought that there are no shortage of people who would put their hands up for the position of General Manager - Player Development & Strategy. In any case, recruiting staff is part of the CEOs job. Todd's appointment is concerning both because he has a serious conflict of interest with his son coming through this year and because he is part of the "boys club".

Edited August 29, 2012 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[BIG JIM 508]

Ok, if you want to talk facts it was Garry who moved on Bailey - the Board were moving on Schwab.

BIG JIM: Ok so you were just talking crap before?

Are you seriously suggesting that Schwab's divisiveness, his interference in the football department and his nepotistic relationships had nothing to do with Bailey's sacking?

BIG JIM: I think Bailey's coaching was as bad as it gets and his coaching lost him the job.

Correct. As I have pointed out previously, this was not Schwab's work, it was his inheritance.

BIG JIM: Wrong again Cameron was the CEO who established AAMI park and did all the real work.

Correct. As I have pointed out previously, this was not Schwab's work, it was his inheritance.

BIG JIM: Cameron overseen the deal with casey and spent alot of time setting out community programs around Casey and even if the old board thought of the idea there still alot of work involved in making something like this to happen. Did you know you need more then an idea to set such a project up?

An unsustainable measure that has mined the finite goodwill of supporters for one off financial gain. What credit there is for the tin rattle goes to the club's supporters .

BIG JIM: What a weak statement, suck it up Cameron Swabb was the first CEO to ever wipe of debt like this in the AFL history.

In financial matters that Cameron has had control over the club has fared poorly. This has not been disputed by anyone.

BIG JIM: Well Cameron Swabb has grown our Football club's operating revenue from 28 million to 38 million. You ever done this?

Cameron Swabb also was the CEO who established a net asset of 6 million. You done this ?

Really? That's it? Was that junket even worth it? Other than the vomiting stories, I didn't pay much attention.

BIG JIM: That's right it does not help your view.

First of all, it remains to be seen whether Jack Viney will play for the club, what pick will be used on him and if he will be any good.

BIG JIM: He will 100% play for the MFC and who cares what pick and he will be a GUN. Next

More importantly, appointing his dad as recruitment manager this year is a demonstration of Schwab's terrible judgement and an expression of the "boys club" culture that saved Cameron's neck last year.

BIG JIM: Todd Viney would just Know almost every kid coming throught this draft because his son Jack will have played with all these kids for years.

Great move Cameron Swabb.

Will you now answer some questions for me?

BIG JIM: Now what's next Mike Sheehan, you think us fans think all these great things just happen with no effort, wake up mate you need more then the idea to get things up and running in any business surely you know this. Your Agenda is clear Mike.

[PaulRB 6,043]

Todd was brought in because he's a trusted former teammate of our president (at the time), who was involved in the Hawks 2008 premiership side, before moving to Adelaide crows...

Cam schwab has played an important role in getting the MFC back into a position to climb the ladder. His achievements include:

• Eradicating debt,
  
• profits,
  
• increased revenue,
  
• increase membership.
  

He achieved these this despite the following headwinds/distractions:

1. Woeful on-field performance: During his tenure we have finished (16th, 16th, 12th, 13th, 16th). the MFC is a football club yet he's raised membership numbers despite the performance of the team. Also, this record to my mind justifies his "meddling in the FD".
   
2. Global Financial crisis: Financial markets meltdown, recession in most economies, etc... Yet Cam increases our revenue and finds sponsors year in year out.
   
3. Present dying of Cancer: With Jimmy ill for a couple of years, Cam stepped up his efforts (and maybe overstepped the mark) but he was out their flying the MFC flag and trying to allow Jimmy to recuperate (as was Don and much of the board).
   

No one is perfect, but smart people learn from their mistakes. Cam is a smart man and a very good football administrator. Hopefully in three years he'll have proven himself to be a great one.

Edited August 29, 2012 by PaulRB

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

largely unreadable stuff

I'm not going to bother answering your comments line by line if you refuse to answer questions for me.

Also, I do not normally have a go at people about spelling but if you're going to keep posting in this thread, you should start spelling Cameron's name correctly.

You are demonstrably wrong about the AAMI and Casey deals and you have added nothing new to the financial stuff which I have already addressed.

I don't really feel strongly about the China Trip. Aside from the rumors of problems among the playing group, I view it as neither significantly positive nor significantly negative. If I am missing something, please point it out.

Drafting Jack Viney with a father/son pick is something that anyone could do. Appointing his father as recruiting manager this year is a negative for the reasons I have outlined previously.

As for the Bailey sacking, no, I was not talking crap. If you knew anything about how it all unfolded you would know this already.

Schwab and Connolly decided to get rid of Bailey after the West Coast game last year. Connolly in particular would tell this to anyone who cared to listen. They then spend the rest of the season undermining Bailey and causing untold damage to the club in the process. It is not inaccurate to state that Schwab, the Board and Garry all sacked Bailey because they all had significant roles in his terribly managed dismissal.

It is my firm view that the club will never be able to prosper whilst we retain the poisonous and destabilizing influences of Schwab and Connolly. I find that the more people know about the club and the people involved, the more they tend to agree with this point of view. I suspect you strongly disagree with it.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Todd was brought in because he's a trusted former teammate of our president (at the time), read: mate

who was involved in the Hawks 2008 premiership side, before moving to Adelaide crows... it this a comprehensive list of Key Selection Criteria? Was anyone else interviewed?

Cam schwab has played an important role in getting the MFC back into a position to climb the ladder. Read: implemented the tanking policy (which I approve of by the way)

His achievements include:

• Eradicating debt, The credit goes to the supporters
  
• profits, Thin, unsustainable under the current model, nothing new to the club
  
• increased revenue, Despite him, not because of him
  
• increase membership. Down 4.1% this year
  

He achieved these this despite the following headwinds distractions:

1. Woeful on-field performance: During his tenure we have finished (16th, 16th, 12th, 13th, 16th). the MFC is a football club yet he's raised membership numbers despite the performance of the team. Also, this record to my mind justifies his "meddling in the FD". This is cause for blame, not praise
   
2. Global Financial crisis: Financial markets meltdown, recession in most economies, etc... Yet Cam increases our revenue and finds sponsors year in year out. Every other club in the league was operating in the same market, our sponsorship record has clearly been the worst
   
3. Present dying of Cancer: With Jimmy ill for a couple of years, Cam stepped up his efforts (and maybe overstepped the mark) but he was out their flying the MFC flag and trying to allow Jimmy to recuperate (as was Don and much of the board). Well I'm not about to blame Jim's cancer on Cam. The Board should have acted to replace Jim sooner. There were issues of accountability before Jim's passing and these remain.
   

No one is perfect, but smart people learn from their mistakes. Cam is a smart man and a very good football administrator. Hopefully in three years he'll have proven himself to be a great one.

Cam has a patchy record and had plenty of time in the system to make mistakes before his most recent appointment at Melbourne. He is a poor administrator for the reasons I have given. It is terrible that the club has been burdened with the liability for Schwab's three year contract only a year after the Board were preparing to sack him. I hope that we get rid of him soon and that when we do, Cameron decides to put the club's interests before his own for once and declines to sue us for breach of contract.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[rpfc 27,646]

It seems the Devil is the CEO.

Oh, why won't someone challenge the board?

So many people see the light, HSOG, yet no-one is holding the torch?

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

We pay Cam the 'Big Desks' because he can go out and get a EnergyWatch size deal that we require to push our revenue into places it needs to go make us competitive with the better teams.

You must be feeling pretty sheepish right about now. I suppose I can count on your support?

[rpfc 27,646]

You must be feeling pretty sheepish right about now. I suppose I can count on your support?

Jeez, you are doing some research...

I have also said some pretty stern things about Schwab and the club as it sits today. But I see the current climate and the fact that we are getting beat up right now. I am not about to pile on.

I like the revamped FD quite a bit. Neil Craig and Dave Misson are the best in the business.

You 'liked' a pathetic offering from picket fence on another thread tearing into Neeld for what he said before and during the GC game.

Is it that everything Schwab & the current board is involved in is 'beyond the pale' or do you just not like Neeld?

[rpfc 27,646]

I still haven't got any word on the torch bearers.

Who will save us?

Where are they?

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Is it that everything Schwab & the current board is involved in is 'beyond the pale' or do you just not like Neeld?

Mostly I just don't like cheerleaders.

edit: Actually, I'll expand on this for you. I think there is a lot to like about Neeld and I think he might make an excellent Director of Football Operations or similar. However, I do not rate Neeld as a coach based on what I have seen so far. The "Insider" video did nothing to disabuse me of this notion. I expanded on my reasons for not rating Neeld as a coach in another, relevant thread. The response was predictably similar to the one I am getting now. On a related note, I hated the way Neeld was appointed.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[BarnDee 287]

CS , yeah im ok with that ,

[Whispering_Jack 28,094]

Statistics, damn lies and warped thinking Hazy.

It comes as no surprise that you have difficulty accepting the simple proposition that in order to achieve success in the highly competitive AFL you need a unified club but let's be serious, the two points you use to make your case prove nothing other than that your obsessive hatred of Cam Schwab continues unchecked.

Robbie Flower worked his heart out for the MFC, played 272 games over 16 seasons, played in finals on only 1 occasion and achieved zero premierships. By your standards, that probably makes him a failure as a player. That's the sort of thing that passes for logic from your pathetic and jumbled attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

■ In his 21 years at the helm Schwab's Clubs have reached the finals on only 3 occasions and have achieved zero premierships.

That is indeed Schwab's record but he was never employed to pull on a jumper and kick goals on the field. A closer examination indicates that in each case he took on clubs that were struggling both on and off the field and, in three out of four instances, those clubs were wracked by in fighting and division before he arrived on the scene so I do thank you for proving my point.

• Richmond was a basket case before Schwab arrived. Their list was poor and KB was a failure after four years as a coach. Only one person (Bartlett himself) believes he should not have been given the flick. Jeans stayed for less than 12 months and, contrary to what you claim, he wasn't sacked. He was forced to resign due to ill health.

• Melbourne in the wake of the merger debate was a tough gig with a mixed board of pro and anti Joe people that was impossible to work with and ultimately imploded in 2001, well after Schwab left.

• Fremantle was a financial basket case. Schwab made it financially viable off the field and it made the finals for the first time during his tenure in 2004 and again in 2006. Most good judges would give him a tick.

• We know where Melbourne was at in 2008 when Schwab came onto the scene. Despite his record of overseeing a period of substantial  financial growth, it's clear that both he and the board had to contend with difficult circumstances and disruptive elements in the background.

As an aside, people like you rightly maintain that the CEO should not interfere in football matters but then argue that he's responsible for everything that happens on the field. I suppose it's his fault Sam Blease broke his leg in the schoolyard, that Max Gawn did a knee in the preseason and Brad Green missed a couple of shots at goal on Sunday?

People like your find reasons to dismiss the CEO's role in the substantial off field improvements that occurred on his watch, yet are the first to blame him for the lack of on field success in an area outside the scope of his employment and one which he's not expected to involve himself. 

Mindboggling!

■ In his 21 seasons as CEO, Schwab has sacked 5 coaches (Bartlett, Jeans, Balme, Connolly, Bailey) 

As we're seeing at Carlton, most coaches eventually do end up getting the sack usually for lack of success. Four of the CS5 (including Bailey) were at their use by  date and they were sacked by their board, not the CEO. The other resigned due for health reasons.

Five coaches in 21 years is about the average tenure for AFL coaches these days, so your rubbery treatment of those figures adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

By your criteria, Schwab's predecessors who were appointed by previous administrations must have been quite something. Ray Ellis might not been blessed with a good system for filing the club's overdue tax payment notices but its comforting to know that he never sacked a coach. Perhaps you might want to seek him out and ask him if he wants his old job back?

Steve Harris did exactly what other than leave the club in debt when he walked away after a less than inspiring four years highlighted by the sacking of Neale Daniher?

Paul McNamee's great idea was to put us further into hock by recruiting a CHF we couldn't afford and who the coach apparently didn't want. No worries about the CEO interfering on football matters there Hazy! And he never sacked a coach either.

And you want to talk about own goals?

Go figure?

[nutbean 8,837]

Makes absolutely no sense to me why he would borrow that money from the club and not a bank...?

Is it to get better interest rates or something?

Common practice in the corporate world - forms part of the salary package and depending on how it is structured it can have tax benefits.

[beelzebub 22,373]

Common practice in the corporate world - forms part of the salary package and depending on how it is structured it can have tax benefits.

shhh shhh.. People dont want to hear that. They want juicy morsels of psuedo currupt activity that obviously highlight the shadey natures of less desirable types.

Might have found it difficult anyway to get the folding stuff out of a bank to support his desk habit.

Without a fix he'd probbly go into with-drawer !!!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Common practice in the corporate world - forms part of the salary package and depending on how it is structured it can have tax benefits.

Can you name any instances of a public company or organisation making a loan to a CEO in addition to his salary package? It should be easy since it is "common practice".

The truth is it certainly isnt common practice in the corporate world and has not been so for at least a dozen years. In fact, under ASX Governance rules its verbotim. And with the consequence of FBT, there are no tax benefits whatsoever.

The loan to Schwab was a bizarre and unnecessary lapse of corporate governance. Particularly when the Board were prepared to sack CS pre 186 not long after.

shhh shhh.. People dont want to hear that. They want juicy morsels of psuedo currupt activity that obviously highlight the shadey natures of less desirable types.

Might have found it difficult anyway to get the folding stuff out of a bank to support his desk habit.

Without a fix he'd probbly go into with-drawer !!!

Thanks for the vivid imagery.

Can you assist Nutbean with the question above?

[PaulRB 6,043]

Todd was brought in because he's a trusted former teammate of our president (at the time), read: mate

who was involved in the Hawks 2008 premiership side, before moving to Adelaide crows... it this a comprehensive list of Key Selection Criteria? Was anyone else interviewed?

Cam schwab has played an important role in getting the MFC back into a position to climb the ladder. Read: implemented the tanking policy (which I approve of by the way)

His achievements include:

• Eradicating debt, The credit goes to the supporters
  
• profits, Thin, unsustainable under the current model, nothing new to the club
  
• increased revenue, Despite him, not because of him
  
• increase membership. Down 4.1% this year
  

He achieved these this despite the following headwinds distractions:

1. Woeful on-field performance: During his tenure we have finished (16th, 16th, 12th, 13th, 16th). the MFC is a football club yet he's raised membership numbers despite the performance of the team. Also, this record to my mind justifies his "meddling in the FD". This is cause for blame, not praise
   
2. Global Financial crisis: Financial markets meltdown, recession in most economies, etc... Yet Cam increases our revenue and finds sponsors year in year out. Every other club in the league was operating in the same market, our sponsorship record has clearly been the worst
   
3. Present dying of Cancer: With Jimmy ill for a couple of years, Cam stepped up his efforts (and maybe overstepped the mark) but he was out their flying the MFC flag and trying to allow Jimmy to recuperate (as was Don and much of the board). Well I'm not about to blame Jim's cancer on Cam. The Board should have acted to replace Jim sooner. There were issues of accountability before Jim's passing and these remain.
   

No one is perfect, but smart people learn from their mistakes. Cam is a smart man and a very good football administrator. Hopefully in three years he'll have proven himself to be a great one.

Cam has a patchy record and had plenty of time in the system to make mistakes before his most recent appointment at Melbourne. He is a poor administrator for the reasons I have given. It is terrible that the club has been burdened with the liability for Schwab's three year contract only a year after the Board were preparing to sack him. I hope that we get rid of him soon and that when we do, Cameron decides to put the club's interests before his own for once and declines to sue us for breach of contract.

Yawn.

Life is too short.

Well done Cam and well done MFC.

Go Dees.

[Guest AVB]

Fair comment about who's call it was. I'll admit I am not completely sure. Accepted practice is for the CEO to make such appointments, a responsible Board would not involve themselves with such a decision at the micro level. Having said that, the relationship between Schwab and the Board is such that it is now very difficult to tell who is making the calls or it they are all made jointly with no oversight. Of course, this is itself an indictment.

Not sure I agree on the talent finding part. I would have thought that there are no shortage of people who would put their hands up for the position of General Manager - Player Development & Strategy. In any case, recruiting staff is part of the CEOs job. Todd's appointment is concerning both because he has a serious conflict of interest with his son coming through this year and because he is part of the "boys club".

Come on now, this is really clutching at straws.

It's an indictment that you can't tell from the outside who is making decisions?

It's only an indictment on your bent to find things wrong with Schwab's tenure.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Here are some more facts for you:

Schwab's stints as CEO include Richmond (1988-1994), Melbourne (1997-1999), Fremantle (2002-2008) and Melbourne (2009-12).

Schwab didn't sack Bailey, as has already been pointed out and he didn't sack Jeans, which you've asserted. This from the Richmond Football Club website:

" 1992

A Jeans resigned as Senior Coach due to ill health. J Northey, dual Richmond Premiership Player appointed Coach for season 1993."

Why do you make things up ?

I find your belittling of the debt reduction of $5mil weak. The interest bill on that debt was crippling and prevented football department spend, which is paramount to improve and remain competitive; and where previous administrations couldn't rid themselves of this anchor the current one did. The fact they were able to unify the club was a major achievement, especially when there are divisive figures around the club, such as your goodself. Gardner's Board couldn't fathom how the debt could be removed. It was a major achievement by the incumbents despite your sneering.

Also, the reunification with the MCC has been a major achievement as well as the far better stadium deal.

Chris Connolly has been the major driver of Casey, and yes, he was a Gardner appointment. Well done on that Paul.

Some facts:

Membership stronger

Stadium deals better

Sponsorship greater

No debt

$6mil net asset position

The incumbent Board, despite some mistakes, is clearly a far better performed Board than the one it replaced. Thanks Jimmy, Don, et al, and a special thanks to Cameron for overseeing a major turn around in our off-field fortunes. We all want on-field success and hopefully we have a great summer with an injection of some much needed talent.

[rpfc 27,646]

Well said, BH.

Personally, I can't argue with people who don't see nuance, who don't accept the relevance of other arguments, and who choose their own facts.

And by "can't" I mean "struggle to be bothered with."

[timD 994]

Well said, BH.

Personally, I can't argue with people who don't see nuance, who don't accept the relevance of other arguments, and who choose their own facts.

And by "can't" I mean "struggle to be bothered with."

rpfc, BH's post is cheap. He has ignored hazy's argument entirely. Instead he trying to undermine hazy by implying that hazy's argument is crap because he a garnder suporter and gardner's board was not that good. It completely bypasses the points that Hazy is making.

I think Hazy is clearly agenda-driven but i think he is writing good stuff. THe two are not incompatible. The good bits about the club has nothing to do with schwab and the bad bits have a fair bit to do with him. We've had posters come on an dsay that we lost two sponsors because schwab + team were hard to deal with. The debt reduction was not a schwab plan. He has massively expanded theadmin side of the business and I'm not sure if it is a good idea (and if anyone does it would certainly help this debate). We are holding fundraisers to help the TPP. WTF?

Questioning this board and CEO should be done by everyone. Hazy has offered some interesting insights and criticisms and is being dismissed regardless of, rather than because of, the quality of his writing. That is poor.

[hardtack 10,158]

[*]Eradicating debt, The credit goes to the supporters

This is one thing that really annoys me... without Schwab at the helm managing the debt demolition, the chances are that the whole thing would have collapsed in a heap... the supporters put up the dollars, yes, but to manage a debt such as the club had and to encourage the supporters to contribute to the extent that they did, needed a very astute mind at the helm. Do you perhaps consider organisations such as World Vision to be pointless because it is the public who donate funds to help the world's poor and starving? Is it really as simple as that?

The other thing that really irritates me are those critics of Schwab's sponsorship deals who will blame him for the EnergyWatch debacle and at the same time, cite the fact that other sponsorship deals (Kaspersky for example) were the result of supporters going in to bat for the club.

Too many forget that even though a supporter in an organisation may bring the possibility to a director's attention, a company such as Kaspersky has to be convinced of the viability and size of such a sponsorship deal, and it is entirely down to Schwab to do that; sure it didn't work out as well as it could have, but despite losing both EnergyWatch (through no fault of his own) and Kaspersky (for reasons no one here is entirely clear on), he followed up, managing to find us two good sponsorship deals at a very difficult time in WebJet and Opel. The fact that one of these has taken up the option to enter a second year of sponsorship, speaks volumes for Schwab and might possibly lend a lie to the reasons some here were saying resulted in Kaspersky opting out.

Edited August 30, 2012 by hardtack

[rpfc 27,646]

rpfc, BH's post is cheap. He has ignored hazy's argument entirely. Instead he trying to undermine hazy by implying that hazy's argument is crap because he a garnder suporter and gardner's board was not that good. It completely bypasses the points that Hazy is making.

I think Hazy is clearly agenda-driven but i think he is writing good stuff. THe two are not incompatible. The good bits about the club has nothing to do with schwab and the bad bits have a fair bit to do with him. We've had posters come on an dsay that we lost two sponsors because schwab + team were hard to deal with. The debt reduction was not a schwab plan. He has massively expanded theadmin side of the business and I'm not sure if it is a good idea (and if anyone does it would certainly help this debate). We are holding fundraisers to help the TPP. WTF?

Questioning this board and CEO should be done by everyone. Hazy has offered some interesting insights and criticisms and is being dismissed regardless of, rather than because of, the quality of his writing. That is poor.

Tim, BH's post was just pointing out some baseline facts that hazy refuses to acknowledge without riders/asides/qualifications.

Hazy always offers interesting insights but they are surrounded by his own facts, his own interpretation posted as reality, and a healthy dose of bias.

[rpfc 27,646]

We are holding fundraisers to help the TPP. WTF?

I know that a few are still having trouble getting over this mental hurdle over the $750k from the Foundation Heroes night being used on the TPP.

We have a legislated requirement to pay 95% of the $9.14m salary cap. That money is always going to be paid. The money that we have raised form generous fans will help the club grow whether it goes into the TPP or any other area of the club.

It is sexier to say that the money is designed to recruit and retain players than pay for the altitude room or any other crucial yet outwardly dry expense.

Of course we are going to pay the TPP - the AFL mandates us to pay 95% of it.

[Sir Why You Little 34,965]

So Hazy what are you thoughts on Don McLardy?