Umpires influenced by Crowd

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

I was shocked at the umpiring in the St Kilda/Coll. game last Saturday night.

The toothless hordes screeched for frees every time Coll. players tackled or went for marks, or the ball went OOB.

The pressure mounted on the umpires, who would weaken repeatedly, and pay the 50:50 (sometimes 20:80) free to the Mudpies.

The crescendo built in the last moments , and O' Brien was the recipient of a free resulting from a disgracefully poor adjudication from a nearby umpire. What a dramatic effect that error made, putting Coll. temporarily equal top, and severely damaging St Kilda' s finals hopes.

Interesting to compare O'Brien's match saving free to the non- free to Petterd at the end of the '09 game . Identical incidents, neither worth the free.

It would be lovely if St Kilda receive the same treatment next Saturday(14 frees to 25, despite getting more possessions). Unfortunately, the crowd influence will be the opposite way!

Edited September 3, 2012 by Jumping Jack Clennett

[My TD 156]

Always been the way.

Squeaky wheels get the oil.

[nutbean 8,837]

I have rarely seen umpiring over the course of a game cost a team a game. We tend to focus on the last decision made yet there were plenty of wrong decision both ways in the previous 3 quarters to both teams.

I will say that recent umpiring has taken enjoyment out of the game for me because they get it so badly wrong so often. Schmidt was horrific on Sunday for both teams.(the Grimes decision in the first quarter was an absolute howler)

I understand that the best combination of umpires do the finals but it gets right up my nose that they get it so glaringly right during this period. They seem to add the highly sensible reasoning during finals " if i am not sure or it has no material impact on the game then dont blow the whistle" - if only they could so that week in and week out.

Edited August 7, 2012 by nutbean

[Chook 14,607]

I was watching the replay early this morning while waiting for the athletics to come on, and I noticed at one stage in the second quarter that Stephen Milne gave away a free kick against Harry O'Brian. Then O'Brian said something to Milne which I didn't catch. Milne then retorted "What are you gonna do about it f*ckhead? What are you gonna do about it f*ckhead?" over and over again. The umpire appeared to be fine with that until O'Brian went up to him and complained. An instant later, the ump had paid a 50 m penalty, saying "that language is unacceptable."

If the language was unacceptable, why in the hell did it take until O'Brian complained for the umpire to do something about it? He clearly heard what Milne said because he was close enough for the microphone to pick it up, and because Milne said it over and over again, the umpire obviously had enough time to pay the 50 before O'Brian complained.

UMPIRES SHOULD NEVER ALLOW THE CROWD OR THE PLAYERS TO INFLUENCE THEIR DECISIONS.

In fact, I believe that nobody other than the Captain should be allowed to address the umpires other than to ask who the free kick is for, what the free is for, where they should be standing. THAT'S IT!

[John Crow Batty 8,292]

That's why passionate supporters are required. It's all part of the theatre. Players get charged up by vocal supporters and the umps get sucked in nearly always by the most positive energy. Interstate clubs have the edge at home with overwhelming support but here in Vic it's the pies who do best because they have supporter clout to influence 1%ers at critical moments. Fact of football life. Sometimes it has worked for us in the past too.

Edited August 7, 2012 by america de cali

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

Umpires are influenced by the crowd.

http://www.econstor.eu/dspace/bitstream/10419/33597/1/487110773.pdf

[Crompton's the man 635]

Umpires are influenced by the crowd.

http://www.econstor....1/487110773.pdf

Has it not always been so?

Try reading John's gospel chapter 19 : an innocent man unjustly sentenced by the screaming of the crowd and its influence on the weak adjudicator.

It is the way of the world - it constantly amazes me how few call it for what it is.

Not too much has changed in human psychology in these past few thousand years

[My TD 156]

The umpire appeared to be fine with that until O'Brian went up to him and complained. An instant later, the ump had paid a 50 m penalty, saying "that language is unacceptable."

Noticed this myself and also thought it was weak as pizz.

Both from Obrian and the ump.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

Collingwood v. North

North.....nearly 70 more possessions.

Frees.....Coll 20, North 14.

The Coll. crowd screeched hysterically, but successfully ,every time a North player was tackled.The umps have to wilt under the constant pressure every now and then.

[Nasher 33,166]

I saw the title of this thread and instantly thought, Round 22 2011, Adelaide Oval.

[Redleg 37,974]

I saw the title of this thread and instantly thought, Round 22 2011, Adelaide Oval.

Good get. As bad as I have ever seen it.

[45HG 1,539]

Absolutely. Those umps really wanted us to get Mitch Clark!

[monoccular 16,365]

Umpires influenced by Crowd

Scurrilous header - it doesn't happen because Geishen says it doesn't, so .............LOL!

IMO it is just generalised ove-umpiring. They are presumably frustrated footballers who could never influence a game as a player, so they get their jollies by blowing the whistle.

[angrydee 842]

If a gambler wanted to influence the result of a game they could offer a fortune to an umpire - it would only take a few important decisions to affect the result or who kicks the 1st goal etc. And the irony would be that the Geish wouls most likely support the decisions.

[Chook 14,607]

The worst thing that ever happened to umpiring is the inclusion of multiple field umpires. More umpires means more diverse interpretation, which means more inconsistency. Of course the problem with only having one umpire would be that the game moves so quickly that he couldn't keep up.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Chook

[John Crow Batty 8,292]

The worst thing that ever happened to umpiring is the inclusion of multiple field umpires. More umpires means more diverse interpretation, which means more inconsistency. Of course the problem with only having one umpire would be that the game moves so quickly that he couldn't keep up.

If the senior umpire had the power to overturn decisions made by his cohorts that may help. It is nearly always apparent when a howler is made. Pride and rules prevents horrible decisions being overturned. The senior umpire should be excused from chores like ball ups and bounces so he can concentrate better on the action. The other field and boundary umpires can take up his slack. Also ball ups within 10 metres from the boundary should be taken to the line and thrown in by the boundary umpires.

Edited August 19, 2012 by america de cali

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

The Freo crowd were instrumental in the biased decisions on Saturday. They even had the temerity to boo the umps on the rare occasions we got a free.

Posters will say...of course they got the frees.....we didn't have the ball! True, but look at Footscray /Brisbane. Bris double their score but less frees. Look at Adel/ Gold Coast.Similar.

We should protest to the authorities about the skewed free kick count we received at Subiaco this year. Neither we, nor any other team could win there with such unbalanced adjudication

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

As a one eyed Melbourne supporter, I know that I'm often illogically paranoid about Melbourne's treatment by the "men in green".

On Sat night, I went to the game completely ambivalent about whether Freo or Geelong won.

Every time there was a vague possibility of a free to Geelong, the completely partisan crowd would (naturally) pressure the umps. That pressure built, and time and time again, Geeelong would be the beneficiaries despite being beaten for the ball, and in most one on one contests.The free kick statistics were very one sided in the Cats' favour.

The umpires MUST learn to close their minds to the noise from the crowd.

By the way, how badly must Jordan Bannister officiate before he disqualifies himself from selection as a Finals umpire?

[Clintosaurus 6,631]

I thought North still got their standard good run form the umps yesterday.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

Did any Demonlanders notice the absolute dream run Collingwood got from the umps tonight v. Adelaide?

They only had to get the ball into their forward 50 to get a free in front of goal, over and over again.

The crowd pressured the umps for holding the ball and high tackles. There was no noise when the same thing happened to Adelaide.

After Adelaide got a couple of frees in a row, the crowd booing was so loud that they didn't DARE give Podsiadly a round the neck directly in front, when he not only marked it, but nearly had his head pulled off!

Coll could usually tackle wherever they liked, and chuck the pill at will.

Listening to the crowd, you'd think they were being absolutely robbed!

The better side won tonight, despite the adjudications.

[ijbfossil 77]

Yep - right about today Jumping Jack.

As soon as we got more umpire than one - 1976 - they have tried to clone them - the decision against Watts fantastic spoil last week was a shocker - maybe technically correct per the laws of the Game - but COMMON SENSE which ideally always should be applied went out the window - the Pt Adel crowd were very edgy given the Dees had kicked the last 6 goals so Watts and the Dees paid a price.

However I believe if you are good enough you will win - sadly the Dees made some mistakes near the finish - Dawesy's kick back into the corridor, Grimesy missing Tyson and kicking out on the full - and early in the game - what were the Dees defenders thinking when Wingard had a set shot from the boundary and they allowed Westhoff to saunter into the goal square unattended for the simple handball over the top and gift goal?

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

What about Geelong v Freo last night!!!!!

31 frees to 14 at Kardinia Park!!

Geelong will continue to get results above their skill level as long as they have 8 games a year with NO opposition supporters present to yell "BALLLLL!!!!" immediately before the opposition take possession.

They have an enormous advantage over all other clubs, with the capacity of Skilled Stadium being much less than their total number of members.

I know it's the same at Subiaco, but somehow there's always plenty of support there for Coll, Ess and Carlton. We suffer badly, of course, and play there more often.

Of course Coll, Carl and Ess are exempt from being sent to Geelong.(it wouldn't be fair to their supporters!)

[Nasher 33,166]

I didn't see the game in question, but does an unbalanced free kick count automatically equal biased umpiring?

[Bitter but optimistic 21,509]

I didn't see the game in question, but does an unbalanced free kick count automatically equal biased umpiring?

No! However, wasn't there a study a few years ago that looked at this issue in relation to West Coast games at home that suggested a clear bias? I'm sure some stats nut will know of it.

[Redleg 37,974]

I didn't see the game in question, but does an unbalanced free kick count automatically equal biased umpiring?

No it doesn't, but if you see about 12 soft or incorrect frees to one side, that does.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Redleg