SLEEPERS

[robbiefrom13 887]

I am interested to see if the players are getting angry.

This week, both Frawley and Jones said the same thing - they are getting sick of losing. That sounds like they've reached overload, can't actually absorb any more and go on putting it down to "learning" or whatever. I bet Jack Watts would express himself differently on the subject of losing now. In fact I imagine it's all through the club, like it is through the supporter base - we're sick of it.

So, what will happen now that they've reached the point where they've had their fill of it? Will some players like some supporters find it too tough, and lose interest? Or, on the other hand, which players will individually get angry, and refusing to take it dig deeper, pushing themselves further, taking more pain, because they are fed up with the crap? Interesting to watch.

Not every team is exposed to this level of heat. Some players may break, and we'll see them losing creativity and joy of playing the game; but others may out of this pressure get strength that cannot be had cheaply. So they feel it's come to a head, they're sick of it - good! Let the players' anger come fully into play. Maybe no reward immediately, but like the contested possession count, it will be building for the future.

Beckett says, "I am alive still; it may come in handy later on..."

Edited July 8, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[Hannibal 5,814]

So, what will happen now that they've reached the point where they've had their fill of it? Will some players like some supporters find it too tough, and lose interest? Or, on the other hand, which players will individually get angry, and refusing to take it dig deeper, pushing themselves further, taking more pain, because they are fed up with the crap? Interesting to watch.

Plenty of players are playing for their footy careers. Interesting to watch.

[machine11 142]

I agree that some are getting games that they don't warrant, but I'm not sure that it's much more than most clubs. And Neeld has some big list decisions at year's end, so it's reasonable to expose some of them before casting verdicts.

You have to ask whether some senior players are getting games based on the number of games - seriously, some players should be dropped no matter whether the younger players have earned it.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

It's clear to me that Neeld is a good coach. His methodology is there for all to see - in short, he has a disciplined focus on the fundamentals. He has a system which he will implement, but this will take TIME.

Neeld has come into our club (less than one year ago - think about that), quickly assessed the list and the club culture, and determined what needed to change.

He immediately recruited some mature, hard bodies (some of whom are already in our best 21). He changed the leadership group - fundamentally. It wasn't just about youth, it was about type - it's about building a professional club culture.

He immediately secured one of the best fitness guys in the business in Dave Misson. He also convinced Neil Craig to buy into the journey/approach - and Craig was apparently fielding offers from left, right and centre. Craig's no idiot, so this in itself has got to say something. (And, for what it's worth, Malthouse also rates Neeld as highly as anyone - and he's worked alongside him, day and night, for years.)

Neeld then convinced Mitch Clark to buy into the journey. And Rawlings. And Leigh Brown.

I have never seen so many quality types come to this club in the face of competing offers from other clubs. And much of this can be attributed to Mark Neeld.

This guy has the goods. Of that I am absolutely convinced.

I'm not sitting on the fence with this 'only time will tell' stuff.

We're bloody lucky to have him.

And, as to all the holes that even Blind Freddy can see that so many people are cleverly pointing out here - cop a tip, I reckon they're very obvious to Mark Neeld and his match review committee too.

[robbiefrom13 887]

Plenty of players are playing for their footy careers. Interesting to watch.

true - but that's a different point: motivation by a rational recognition of your need. I'm talking about gut anger. Actually, I can't stand the guy, but I think Mitch Robinson looks like he just can't stand something, the whole time. I mean that sort of ferocity because you are gut angry. What you've been through bends you to something new.

Some of them still appear to coast along. Jones doesn't. Sylvia looks like he's had it with waiting around some of the time, and he just wrenches it out. Joel M looks pretty [censored] off with getting walked on, I reckon. C'mon Wattsy, you look unhappy, but you still appear to admit the other guy is there; Mitch never does - he really does look angry at times. What are they going to do - is it in them? That's what I want to know.

"Playing for their careers" is like the guys who put in a few blinders before re-signing a big contract. Don't care about that - I want players who cared so much they found a new gear. Losses have now accumulated till that's a possibility, regardless of where they came from previously.

Edited July 8, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[Bonkers 994]

I agree that some are getting games that they don't warrant, but I'm not sure that it's much more than most clubs. And Neeld has some big list decisions at year's end, so it's reasonable to expose some of them before casting verdicts.

Yeh if their form warrants selection I agree. But I think the mantra of getting games into kids under dean bailey is one of the reasons the kids haven't developed as they would have at a club like Geelong where they were made to earn it & had good habits instilled into them. I think what Neeld is doing at the moment is looking at the more experienced players & exposing which of them he will keep. Once he's drawn a line through some of them I'm sure some kids will get games if their form warrants selection.

[Dee Landing 9]

Woe the MFC supporter...he comes to each game looking for something, just something...weary he walks away at the end of the game asking himself where are you going.

Outside the G - he walks wondering where he belongs in the football world.

He ponders...wheres the improvement, any signs?? nup..continues walking.

He thinks ahead to 2013 hope awaits...yet again.

He grows older tired and weary..heading to the grave never witnessing his beloved team win a flag.

sad but true folks!!!

[jimcor 212]

Bail, Bate, Dunn and Moloney must all be cut at the end of this year. Too often these players turn the footy over with basic foot skill errors. For our club to move forward we need to get rid of the type of players.

Moloney is an absolute disgrace! If he wants to put himself on the market and test the waters with other clubs then [censored] off. He is an over rated player who has shown NO heart all season and isn't a leaders a.hole.

I still can't understand why Bate is included here. His foot skills are not that far away from Jack Watts' when it's on his better side. Obviously he needs to develop his two-footed skills.

Regardless, having slept on it and awoken to find that the world is still rotating, I think the foot skills vs endurance vs spreading is a bit of a chicken or the egg situation. If our players were short on the ability to do any of these things when Neeld arrived, which one do you focus on first or can you work on them simultaneously? If the decision is that you need to focus on one, then stamina/endurance is the place to start. Neeld has definitely selected players who have performed in this area first - including Nicholson, Jones, McDonald & Bate who impressed during the pre-season. From memory, Bail also did pretty well. Of these, in my opinion, Bate has the best foot skills. Clearly, for most of this group, work needs to be put in on developing the other skills but I wouldn't be surprised if they are rightly persevered with.

Reverting to the turd-polishing debate, I noticed in the Age Footy today that there was talk of 'not gilding the lily'. This is yet another activity that I would like Mythbusters to confront. Perhaps a combined activity of 'gilding the turd' might be undertaken as I'm fairly sure that this is achievable.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,222]

I'm pretty tired of the club giving games to kids that haven't fully earned their crack at AFL level. It's one of the reasons the club is in the position its in. If the club has drawn a line through the player they are replacing in the side in terms of they won't play for the club again then I can see a case for playing the kids. Otherwise make their performances at VFL level demand selection. I'm happy for Neeld to play the harder bodied players until he has made his mind up about whether they are required players or not.

I agree but the problem we have is the mature players haven't/aren't fully earning their crack at AFL level either.

[Macca 16,972]

Our fitness levels are improving - player/coaching staff area

Our defensive skills are getting better - player/coaching staff area .

We are no longer described as 'Bruise free' - player and coaching staff area

Our contested possession rate has improved - player and coaching staff area

Our uncontested possession rate is getting better (after a terrible 1st 8 rounds) - player and coaching staff area

Our skills are deplorable - player/coaching staff issue

Our style of play is awful , indecisive , ugly - player/coaching staff issue

We have only one legitimate win this season (and that might be it) - player/coaching staff issue .

Our Senior players have been well below standard this season - player/coaching staff issue .

Nearly half our list are playing well below their standard - player/coaching staff issue

Our list isn't up to it - any number of people are to blame , but not most of the current coaching staff .

Edited July 8, 2012 by Macca

[tonatopia 278]

What I'm worried about is that we persist with neeld for three years and find out that he can't coach. It is quite evident at the moment that his performance is terrible. We are getting smashed by everyone. We would be crazy not to be approaching malthouse, Roos, choco or any other proven coach, just in case neeld's performance stays at this level.

Anyone who says neelds performance has been good, should take off their rose colored glasses and have a look at the performance of other clubs just to put things in perspective.

The buck stops with neeld. We are crap.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You will have to excuse me for not wanting to read through 7 pages of our post-mortem.

I think blaming the coach is a simplistic view. And "the buck stops with.." is just a cliched saying that glosses over underlying problems. Like I said, it's the players that take the field and they are the ones creating turnovers/displaying sub-par skills.

Now that's not to say that the coach is totally exempt, but we aren't involved with training/team meetings, we aren't in the inner sanctum of the club- so how can we blame the coach when we have no [censored] idea what is going on down there?

FWIW I think our players are [censored] and we have had no quality players for our youngsters to learn off, "on the worksite" so to speak..

Our players are shyte because of poor recruiting over the last 10 years or so. We get a B grade footballer at pick 55 and it has us frothing at the mouth, convinced that the recruiters are A grade, well that's not how it works, we have failed miserably at the pointy end of the draft. We have the worst skills of any club I've ever seen and I've been watching football for many years so what does that say about our recruiters?

Clubs like Collingwood can identify talent and do better with pick 50 than we do with pick 12 we seem to have picked our recruits from BigFooty and Kevin Sheehan's top 20 or EQ's phantom draft.

We have a chance to rectify that with a few astute picks and a bit of aggressive trading, we need to get rid of the players that will never take us to the top and replace them with some that have the basic fundamentals in their grasp; you know players than can kick to a team mate 20 mtrs away without missing him by 20 mtrs. I wonder if any of our recruiters have actually watched any other players or just the ones that Knightmare picks in his top 20 mid year Phantom Draft.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What I'm worried about is that we persist with neeld for three years and find out that he can't coach. It is quite evident at the moment that his performance is terrible. We are getting smashed by everyone. We would be crazy not to be approaching malthouse, Roos, choco or any other proven coach, just in case neeld's performance stays at this level.

Anyone who says neelds performance has been good, should take off their rose colored glasses and have a look at the performance of other clubs just to put things in perspective.

The buck stops with neeld. We are crap.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear; some of our footballers are so fundamentally flawed that there is no way to improve them. You may be able to win a couple of games by tweaking the game plan, but it still comes down to lack of quality personnel; we simply don't have enough good players, or talent waiting, or skilled players to make any significant rise up the ladder.

It's a bit like a failing company employing a new sales manager and then considering sacking him six months later because the shyte salesman "they" employed are still shyte salesman, if he is going to succeed he needs to have his own salesmen/players to work with not some crap he inherited.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Woe the MFC supporter...he comes to each game looking for something, just something...weary he walks away at the end of the game asking himself where are you going.

Outside the G - he walks wondering where he belongs in the football world.

He ponders...wheres the improvement, any signs?? nup..continues walking.

He thinks ahead to 2013 hope awaits...yet again.

He grows older tired and weary..heading to the grave never witnessing his beloved team win a flag.

sad but true folks!!!

Sadly I went to the game and had no sense of excitement that we may win, had no sense of shock when we didn't and had no sense of sadness when we lost, only a sense of "this is where we are and have been for the last 5 or so years", it's hard to get any feeling about the club at the moment. I used to yell and get all worked up at games, now I just sit there and watch, somewhat disinterested and detached.

Passion has slipped away and I hope I can get it back.

.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Woe the MFC supporter...he comes to each game looking for something, just something...weary he walks away at the end of the game asking himself where are you going.

Outside the G - he walks wondering where he belongs in the football world.

He ponders...wheres the improvement, any signs?? nup..continues walking.

He thinks ahead to 2013 hope awaits...yet again.

He grows older tired and weary..heading to the grave never witnessing his beloved team win a flag.

sad but true folks!!!

You hit the nail square and true on the head.

[Hardnut 327]

Our fitness levels are improving - player/coaching staff area

Our defensive skills are getting better - player/coaching staff area .

We are no longer described as 'Bruise free' - player and coaching staff area

Our contested possession rate has improved - player and coaching staff area

Our uncontested possession rate is getting better (after a terrible 1st 8 rounds) - player and coaching staff area

Our skills are deplorable - player/coaching staff issue

Our style of play is awful , indecisive , ugly - player/coaching staff issue

We have only one legitimate win this season (and that might be it) - player/coaching staff issue .

Our Senior players have been well below standard this season - player/coaching staff issue .

Nearly half our list are playing well below their standard - player/coaching staff issue

Our list isn't up to it - any number of people are to blame , but not most of the current coaching staff .

A very good post Macca.

Just a couple of additional thoughts.

In an earlier post 'Axis of Bob' referred to the need for explosive speed - did our pre-season training reflect this or did it focus on endurance? It's also worth remembering that Adelaide under Neil Craig were fit, but not in a way suitable to run out matches or a season.

Your comment that 'our list isn't up to it' should be tied in with your comments on 'our senior players and nearly half our list being well below standard this year'.

[Hannibal 5,814]

It's also worth remembering that Adelaide under Neil Craig were fit, but not in a way suitable to run out matches or a season.

Rubbish. A lot of clubs followed his tapering program. And the guy worked with elite cyclists for years.

Besides, Misson has started on a long journey to get our players to the required fitness levels. It doesn't happen over one preseason. You really are consigning yourself in this thread.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Hardnut 327]

What I'm worried about is that we persist with neeld for three years and find out that he can't coach. It is quite evident at the moment that his performance is terrible. We are getting smashed by everyone. We would be crazy not to be approaching malthouse, Roos, choco or any other proven coach, just in case neeld's performance stays at this level.

Anyone who says neelds performance has been good, should take off their rose colored glasses and have a look at the performance of other clubs just to put things in perspective.

The buck stops with neeld. We are crap.

A pretty fair call 'Tonatopia' - pity we didn't look harder last year - the situation can still be rescued, but it will take a gutsy decision!

[beelzebub 23,378]

Woe the MFC supporter...he comes to each game looking for something, just something...weary he walks away at the end of the game asking himself where are you going.

Outside the G - he walks wondering where he belongs in the football world.

He ponders...wheres the improvement, any signs?? nup..continues walking.

He thinks ahead to 2013 hope awaits...yet again.

He grows older tired and weary..heading to the grave never witnessing his beloved team win a flag.

sad but true folks!!!

unless of course youve been following this team for a long whiles , in that case any real expectation has been well and truly thumped out of you and you go to games with nought but a feint whisper of a hope of something this side of a debacle.

I dont expect much from Melbourne and am rarely disappointed as a result.

Edited July 8, 2012 by belzebub59

[Hardnut 327]

Rubbish. A lot of clubs followed his tapering program. And the guy worked with elite cyclists for years.

Besides, Misson has started on a long journey to get our players to the required fitness levels. It doesn't happen over one preseason. You really are consigning yourself in this thread.

Adelaide's problems were well known for a few years which is why Craig went. We want footballers, not cyclists, but I do have great respect for Craig's intellect and his work in sport over the years - you should read some of his works.

My comment about explosive speed was a reference to the request from 'Axis of Bob' - if explosive speed was a high priority (and I agree, eg. over 40 metres or so) then why did the pre-season focus on endurance as other posters have noted?

If that 'consigns me' then so be it.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

SLEEPERS by The Oracle

The main thrust of any Demon fightback was effectively stilled by the comedy of errors that ended with a video review that disallowed what appeared to be a flaky goal off the boot of James Magner. It started when Magner intercepted a mark that appeared headed for the safe hands of Jared Rivers. The shot was taken from only 35 metres out but it disappeared into a crowd of players with legs and arms apparently flailing around an untouched ball. The goal umpire looked ready to pay the goal but then every official on the ground had a say and it went to the video review which was said to have proved inconclusive. A goal to Melbourne would have meant it was game on but it was not to be.

So why were Gold Coast just given a goal after a video review couldn't show if it was touched?

We get screwed by the umpires yet again.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Robot Devil

[beelzebub 23,378]

Weve a way to go stil with fitness, strength and endurance. Im not really that concerned about these as these ought to improve over time and application..

Im still really disappointed in our basic skills. Worried even.

[Axis of Bob 11,830]

Hardnut, I said that I wouldn't justify you with a debate. So I won't.

My post that you refer to still stands. I'm happy to leave it there for others' judgement, even if you can't grasp it.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,799]

I'd like to pay tribute to two Demon players who displayed absolute guts yesterday in two incidents.

One was Jared Rivers who had to commit to running back with the flight knowing he'd be crunched.Similarly Luke Tapscott with Morris. On both occasions we came off second best, but as a Melbourne supporter I was proud of those efforts.Tappy showed that as well as dishing it out, he can take a heavy knock.

Posters have all noted that If Richmond had kicked straight they'd have killed us, but we missed a few sitters as well. In fact if you give us Magner's goal , take off the unfair goal they got from a 50 meters for nothing, and give us a couple of easy shots we missed, we'd have beaten them, despite playing probably as badly(skill-wise) as we have all season!

[Hardnut 327]

Hardnut, I said that I wouldn't justify you with a debate. So I won't.

My post that you refer to still stands. I'm happy to leave it there for others' judgement, even if you can't grasp it.

What a pity 'Axis of Bob'. In your post 213, I agreed with your comments on explosive speed, yet you imply that I am opposed to your views in total. I understand your post, but I am disappointed that you choose not to discuss issues with some posters with which you (apparently) disagree. Without discussion, it is hard to clarify what we agree upon and and what we disagree upon. If you don't like debate, don't post.