Depressing stuff

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Barry P and his goones have set us back no doubt.

Our player development has been far more concerning.

We have players 4,5,6 year players on the list and we're still not sure what their role is.

You can only play as good as the development and direction you get.

We have lacked physical development of our players also.

So even if we do get talent in I think we haven't had any hope of them to play right.

[Robbie57 1,996]

[censored] off with this Jack Darling crap already. We weren't the only ones who passed up on him. He is good, but he also has an A grade midfield serving the ball to him on a platter.

This stuff is as bad as the ridiculous amount of love given to NicNat every time he farts, despite the fact he can't kick. Howe takes better marks anyway.

Enough of feeling sorry for ourselves because we didn't draft every good player ever.

This thread should have ended after this post.

Rear vision thinking is not genarally productive and I think WYL's good point is we need to learn from our recruiting to improve it in future but thats it.

We will always miss out on some good players through choices we make just as other teams do. What number was swan again 48?

Finally, as Jaded points out most of the logic about how good these players are is flawed.

If you play in a team that has an excellent or elite midfield you will just look better, have more confidence etc. If we had taken any of these players i have no doubt their development would have been different.

[H_T 2,941]

Having to wade through your inane, uninformed and (wildly) speculative posts in every single thread are why I visit this site less and less.

Bingo bing181. Re-hashing these thoughts after every NicNat and Darling outing with a new thread ....... Just bump an old thread ! There's bound to be one just over the first page !

[rjay 24,185]

Yes because when he doesn't kick a bag in his first few hit out's demonland will go into meltdown

Yeah, I expect that to happen but it's probably about time for him to learn his craft at the higher level.

[Jaded No More 59,914]

He knows cook is yet to Play thats what he knows

Wait so because Cook hasn't played yet he is no good and not picking Darling was a mistake?

My apologies, didn't realise we were recruiting for 2012.

Just because one player takes longer to develop, while the other is already fully physically developed means nothing.

[Guest]

It is what it is. Navel gazing and thinking about what might have been won't change anything.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

[censored] off with this Jack Darling crap already. We weren't the only ones who passed up on him. He is good, but he also has an A grade midfield serving the ball to him on a platter.

This stuff is as bad as the ridiculous amount of love given to NicNat every time he farts, despite the fact he can't kick. Howe takes better marks anyway.

Enough of feeling sorry for ourselves because we didn't draft every good player ever.

well said

[rpfc 27,677]

Can I just reiterate that we suck because of recruitment/development prior to Nat Jones arriving in 2006 (2005 draft), and not because of the players drafted since then.

For those that say "that can't be right rpfc - plenty of teams rely on the players recruited from the 2006 draft and drafts since!" - I will say - please give me those teams. (Even Richmond, who are getting better, have Newman, Deledio, Tuck, Foley, King, Moore, McGuane, Graham, White, Jackson, Miller, and Ivan Maric as players drafted before 2006.)

So stop handwringing about recent drafts - you just don't know yet. You can handwring in a few years...

Although we all thought Petterd was the only 'nearly ok' player from the 2006 draft and then Frawley and Garland turned into players we never thought they would be...

Edited June 15, 2012 by rpfc

[beelzebub 22,714]

So stop handwringing about recent drafts - you just don't know yet. You can handwring in a few years...

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

[old55 21,861]

WYL depressed.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

WYL depressed.

I was...But a good sleep helps!

[deeko 937]

In the U/16 system, Jack Darling was the man and dominated the comp. Was super hot property.

His first year in the U/18's I believe he was still a very good player but over shadowed by other key position players.

His second year of U/18's he was just a player, no more no less. His drafting number reflected that.

The fact we didn't take him with our first pick is due to this reason, instead we opted for the All Australian CHF..... is that really so bad? If you were a recruiter, would you take the man child whos form over 3 years has deteriorated or the All Australian who is getting better by the day? Without hindsight I know who most would pick.

Cook will take time but after watching a couple of his games at Casey this year he will be worth it.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Everybody makes mistakes - we did in the sense of Scully. Watts v Naitanui doesn't look great admittedly & I wish everybody would stop proclaiming they can & could read the tea leaves with Darling & Cook when both were drafted 5 minutes ago.

You can cry about it or try & believe that all outcomes will lead to us having good players. Some of you sad old farts need the week off.

[beelzebub 22,714]

As im tempted to grind my teeth does it not bear thinking that with the benfit of hindsight we can all be gurus and slice and dice old choices ad nauseum!! We can sit upon hight and turkey shoot galore ant this "stuff up" or that "miss'.

Its all so easy later, afterwards , when the detail appears from amongst the mist. For ever 50 supposedly fugged up selections there probably is really only 1 or 2 real ones. All the others were based upon the going market valuations etc of the various players..

Its not a perfect science though clubs are getting better at it. Some more so than others but people are people and kids are kids. Theyre different. They dont all follow some golden path of development,. Some rocket along and come to screeching halts, and fall off the Footy landscape. Some seem to be camouflaged for years before popping up almost unannounced to stardom.

In the end its a calculated roll of the dice. Sometimes you make the Pass Line...sometimes you Crap out !!

But give me a break from this mindless retro gnashing of braincells . History is only visible when its behind you.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

In the U/16 system, Jack Darling was the man and dominated the comp. Was super hot property.

His first year in the U/18's I believe he was still a very good player but over shadowed by other key position players.

His second year of U/18's he was just a player, no more no less. His drafting number reflected that.

The fact we didn't take him with our first pick is due to this reason, instead we opted for the All Australian CHF..... is that really so bad? If you were a recruiter, would you take the man child whos form over 3 years has deteriorated or the All Australian who is getting better by the day? Without hindsight I know who most would pick.

Cook will take time but after watching a couple of his games at Casey this year he will be worth it.

I sure hope you are right on this.

My beef is not with Cook at all i want him to be a pure gun.

My annoyance at this situation is because the MFC need to start winning games now. The club needs to pump some success into its viens. I am sure Mark Neeld would have loved JD in his forward line. We do struggle to score at present.

By using such a high pick on a long term project player as Cook is, i call that risky and even a little arrogant.

If this club does not start winning under the present regime our long term prospects won't have a club to play for.

Just my opinion.

If cook is at all ready. Give him a crack next week amongst boys.

[satyricon 267]

I hope everybody realises that WYl is speaking from a position of experience, having for so many years worked in the footy industry, hasn't missed a junior rep game in ten years, has read every physch report from every AFL draft camp for last 15 years, interviewed that many young players he has lost count, was privy to every list management meeting at MFC for last 10 years was absolutely miffed when passed over for Barry Prendergast as Melbourne recruiter.......I could go on but I won't...

keep going WYL.....always like to read your first post in a topic you have started......you must really know why it took over 20 picks for Darling to get a club....

[Hannibal 5,814]

An example of how stupid your reasoning is?

Darling is 191cm, that's "mid-sized type".

Howe is 190cm and looks far more of a likely type than Darling has (even moreso in an underperforming side).

To put it bluntly, get over the Darling man-crush. He really isn't that good.

Some players at 191cms play like genuine key forwards and then you have the Matty Bate's of this world. How tall do you think Neitz and Dunstall were ? Darling plays like a key forward. He and Howe are very different types.

This is a knee-jerk thread because we've known for a long time that Darling is a gun. But those that put Darling down just to justify over-looking him are as silly as the nuffie that started the thread.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I hope everybody realises that WYl is speaking from a position of experience, having for so many years worked in the footy industry, hasn't missed a junior rep game in ten years, has read every physch report from every AFL draft camp for last 15 years, interviewed that many young players he has lost count, was privy to every list management meeting at MFC for last 10 years was absolutely miffed when passed over for Barry Prendergast as Melbourne recruiter.......I could go on but I won't...

keep going WYL.....always like to read your first post in a topic you have started......you must really know why it took over 20 picks for Darling to get a club....

Million $$$ question that one mate, i am sure if that. Wet Coke got the whole of victoria to bend over with this one.

"oh he is a bad boy..Jack goes to night clubs"

Don't pick him" (Where is Rhino??)...Jack was going to be a liability....

Now if youhave a different slant please add to the discussion..

[beelzebub 22,714]

you know...in a very strange way I have to admire the cunning of the Weagles. There is always so much more than just this goes with that, theres the subtefuge, the smoke and mirrors etc. Alls fair in love and war as they say....add to that Footy I think.

I can only hope we are as capable of the games of 'slight of hand' etc ( I actually suspect we were in relation to ol Tom actually...well the latter part of the fun and games anyway, once we realised what was really upon us ).

This to mine only serves to emphasise just how crucial it is to have a footy dept that is filled with savvy, knowledgable and able folk. i think we area lot closer to this NOW then ever before.

We have definitely made some errors ( how much avoidable is I suppose the weight of this thread) I fervently hope we minimise this going forward. So much in footy happens way before the ball is bounced.

[Squarky 10]

My annoyance at this situation is because the MFC need to start winning games now. The club needs to pump some success into its viens. I am sure Mark Neeld would have loved JD in his forward line. We do struggle to score at present.

Thinking that Darling would magically help us kick more than 10 goals a game is sheer lunacy. If we had Darling in the side, it would simply mean that he and Clark would be fighting over the 9-irons and grubbers that our underperforming midfield manage to scrape over the 50-metre line.

Darling's a great player, sure, but he's also had Cox, Kerr, Embley, Gaff, Priddis & Selwood extracting the ball from the middle. Suggest we need a Darling less than we need a Daniel Kerr (or a fit Tom Scully).

Remember, 2012 is the ONLY year where we will really feel the Scully loss... we've got no Scully and no compensation yet. It leaves a pretty big hole in the midfield.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Wait so because Cook hasn't played yet he is no good and not picking Darling was a mistake?

My apologies, didn't realise we were recruiting for 2012.

Just because one player takes longer to develop, while the other is already fully physically developed means nothing.

Yes it does mean something in the context of our football club. WYL hit the nail on the head with his comment above that this club can ill-afford an endless line of long-term project players. We shouldn't have afforded ourselves that luxury at the 2010 draft when we had a ready made gun staring at us in the face.

The secret to unlocking this farce is to look at the situation from the self-interested lens of a recruiter like Barry P. Far better from a job security perspective to go for the long-term skinny kid and spruik his "enormous upside" than plump for the physically mature young star who on the outside chance may .... just may .... blow up in your face and make you look like a goose. And cost you your job.

Didn't work out for Barry that line of thinking though did it.

Anyway, we've gone over this at 'Land ad infinitum. The point here is that at THIS draft, we cannot afford to make a single mistake. The club's interests must come before any individual's because if we don't call out the names of at least two absolute guns we as a club are toast.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Range Rover

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Thinking that Darling would magically help us kick more than 10 goals a game is sheer lunacy. If we had Darling in the side, it would simply mean that he and Clark would be fighting over the 9-irons and grubbers that our underperforming midfield manage to scrape over the 50-metre line.

Darling's a great player, sure, but he's also had Cox, Kerr, Embley, Gaff, Priddis & Selwood extracting the ball from the middle. Suggest we need a Darling less than we need a Daniel Kerr (or a fit Tom Scully).

Remember, 2012 is the ONLY year where we will really feel the Scully loss... we've got no Scully and no compensation yet. It leaves a pretty big hole in the midfield.

Well aware of the midfield hole mate. That is another chat.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Some players at 191cms play like genuine key forwards and then you have the Matty Bate's of this world. How tall do you think Neitz and Dunstall were ? Darling plays like a key forward. He and Howe are very different types.

This is a knee-jerk thread because we've known for a long time that Darling is a gun. But those that put Darling down just to justify over-looking him are as silly as the nuffie that started the thread.

So you chime in to make a valid point yet chastise the "nuffie" who started the thread? What gives?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Range Rover

[old55 21,861]

The secret to unlocking this farce is to look at the situation from the self-interested lens of a recruiter like Barry P. Far better from a job security perspective to go for the long-term skinny kid and spruik his "enormous upside" that plump for the physically mature young star who on the outside chance may .... just may .... blow up in your face and make you look like a goose. And cost you your job.

Ludicrous reasoning.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Ludicrous reasoning.

Nicely fleshed-out response Old.