Watts Is Better Than Hurley

[jimcor 212]

Even if I knew how Hurley performed every week, it would still be a difficult comparison because, as I understand it, Hurley is essentially a CHF whereas Watts is currently is playing as one of the backs. It would be like comparing James Frawley with Mitch Clark. The different requirements of the rolessurely tends to make the comparison virtually meaningless. Even if the thread said 'Jack Watts has more potential than Hurley', it would still be an educated (?) guess. I think Jack Watts is a good player who will become a great player and maybe the same thing could be said about Hurley. The best comparison will be if/when Watts plays on Hurley but even then it might depend on the support either player gets from his team mates.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Moving Garland to the forward line is a brilliant move, yet shifting Watts to the backline makes Watts a failure?

Watts is playing well in the back-line and as I've already stated I wouldn't want the ball in any other players hands.

But which part of the ground do you think Neeld would prefer Watts having an impact ?

[Akum 2,660]

If Hurley & Watts swapped teams & positions on Sat night, we would have lost by 4 or 5 goals.

Yes, Hurley crashed more packs, and that will delight some of his fans here, despite the fact that nothing came of it, and that he got caught a few more times trying to crash through tackles instead of giving it off.

But Watts was simply far more effective.

[old55 23,546]

Watts has had a man, usually a small and hasn't been 7th back which is good. Watts will get a defensive forward from now on but his height will be a challenge. In the long run I'd like to see him take a genuine tall and play key back.

[rpfc 28,383]

Watts has had a man, usually a small and hasn't been 7th back which is good. Watts will get a defensive forward from now on but his height will be a challenge. In the long run I'd like to see him take a genuine tall and play key back.

In the long run I would like to see him move into a ute role. I think Frawley, McDonald, Davis, Garland can take those key position players.

He won't be as good, very few are, but if he can play a Goodes role I would be very happy. Especially now that our forward line will revolve around Clark for the 7 or so years.

[mauriesy 7,287]

But which part of the ground do you think Neeld would prefer Watts having an impact ?

I think at the moment he'd prefer him in the position he can physically adapt to and play best. That's probably the backline.

That's 'cutting his losses' on his draft position, but so be it.

[andrewlamprill37 24]

they are obviously both still developing and will probably both end up being very good 200+ game players for their clubs.

what i think is interesting and very promising is how they have improved year to year.

watts was drafted younger and was alot less physically imposing but each year his output has increased and statistically this year is his best.

2009 av 9 disp

2010 av 12.6 disp

2011 av 16.1 disp

2012 av 19 disp

where hurley obviously came on the scene and had several early break out games in 2010, but hasnt shown continual improvement.

2009 av 14.4 disp

2010 av 16.2 disp

2011 av 14.4 disp

2012 av 13 disp

considering watts has still got a lot more physical development left in him i think there is an argument to be made that he has alot more upside left in him.

also interesting to note that watts on average has twice as many tackles a game

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I see Watts as a bigger James Hird, or a smaller Adam Goodes. Skilled and damaging all over the ground.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I think at the moment he'd prefer him in the position he can physically adapt to and play best. That's probably the backline.

That's 'cutting his losses' on his draft position, but so be it.

Obviously it's a no brainer having him in the back-line because right now he can't impact games in the forward-line.

[Akum 2,660]

I think at the moment he'd prefer him in the position he can physically adapt to and play best. That's probably the backline.

That's 'cutting his losses' on his draft position, but so be it.

Agree partly, but I also think he's putting him where he's most use to the team.

Our ball use coming out of the d50 continues to be a problem. With Jack back there, it's just a hell of a lot better - not perfect by any means, but a lot better. At the moment, the team badly needs better ball use out of d50.

Does anybody really think that a coach like Neeld would put Jack back in defence just to make life easier for Jack? For mine, Jack is in defence because at the moment, he gives something to the defence better than anybody else in the squad, and that's better ball use, in addition to being competitive against his opponent. The fact that he gains confidence and learns about defensive footy are just beneficial side-effects, but not the main reasons he's back there.

We won't always need him back there, and a fully fit and firing Frawley and Strauss are much better longterm options for using the ball well out of defence. But for now, he's our best option.

[H_T 3,043]

I think at the moment he'd prefer him in the position he can physically adapt to and play best. That's probably the backline.

That's 'cutting his losses' on his draft position, but so be it.

But if it fast tracks his competitive instinctive nature and confidence from a physicality aspect, all well and good, for going back to a forward role.

[Geddy Lee 582]

they are obviously both still developing and will probably both end up being very good 200+ game players for their clubs.

what i think is interesting and very promising is how they have improved year to year.

watts was drafted younger and was alot less physically imposing but each year his output has increased and statistically this year is his best.

2009 av 9 disp

2010 av 12.6 disp

2011 av 16.1 disp

2012 av 19 dips

where hurley obviously came on the scene and had several early break out games in 2010, but hasnt shown continual improvement.

2009 av 14.4 disp

2010 av 16.2 disp

2011 av 14.4 disp

2012 av 13 disp

considering watts has still got a lot more physical development left in him i think there is an argument to be made that he has alot more upside left in him.

also interesting to note that watts on average has twice as many tackles a game

Someone moved from CHF to HBF in an awful team is going to have their stats skyrocket.

[andrewlamprill37 24]

Someone moved from CHF to HBF in an awful team is going to have their stats skyrocket.

fair point but the point is that he is improving.. is hurley?

[Striker475 696]

I've been wanting Watts to play as the 'high' CHF-distributor role, but honestly I think he should play "quarterback". That distributive-from-defence role.

It was genuinely like we had two Dustin Fletchers running around on Saturday night. The difference being one is a 21-year-old who is using his talents rather than relying on his experience.

And to have a Fletcher-esque type would be tremendous.

[binman 42,896]

they are obviously both still developing and will probably both end up being very good 200+ game players for their clubs.

what i think is interesting and very promising is how they have improved year to year.

watts was drafted younger and was alot less physically imposing but each year his output has increased and statistically this year is his best.

2009 av 9 disp

2010 av 12.6 disp

2011 av 16.1 disp

2012 av 19 disp

where hurley obviously came on the scene and had several early break out games in 2010, but hasnt shown continual improvement.

2009 av 14.4 disp

2010 av 16.2 disp

2011 av 14.4 disp

2012 av 13 disp

considering watts has still got a lot more physical development left in him i think there is an argument to be made that he has alot more upside left in him.

also interesting to note that watts on average has twice as many tackles a game

Excellent post and i agree. Watts still has a huge amount of improvement left, in large part due to the fact he is likely, in the next 2-3 years, put on aprox 5-8 kgs and perhaps even get a bit taller. He'll fill out in the chest and his legs will get stronger making him super difficult to move off the ball. The other area he will improve is in the all round footy coaching (eg fitness, line coaches, tactics, sports science etc) he is now receiving that he hasn't previously enjoyed, or at least to the same extent (if for no other reason than the huge increase in FD spending).

Hurley on the other may put on a little bit of weight and height still but i expect not nearly as much as Watts (logical seeing he is older). I don't think he would want to put on much more weight anyway as he is not super quick and it may slow him down.

I think Hurley is a terrific player and would love form him to be a demon. But i'd take Watts before him all day every day. As noted above he has more scope for improvement, is a better runner and athlete and can play in more positions (which will end up being a real positive for Watts, this business about him having to play as a KPF because that't what we picked him for is a nonsense as Neeld seems to have conceded).

Sure Hurley is more ferocious at the ball and that is terrific, perhaps even his best asset. But whilst Watts is unlikely to play with the same intensity he will improve in this area (has already IMO and i thought even his harshets critics would have to acknowledge he was great in this regard on Sat night)). Watts makes up for the gap with far superior skills and an incredibly quick brain. Some bits of play that reinforced that for me on Sat were:

• Not getting sucked into packs and trusting the one Melbourne player to win the ball (obviously listening to his coaches about the need to have outside players)
  
• The over the head handball, in tight to Sellar i think, who broke from our back line. In fact there wer numerous examples of his super quick hands
  
• A great mark on the wing at an important point in the game, followed up with a pin point pass off the left foot (he could have used his right foot as it was a stoppage but would have had to turn his body as he was kicking to a player on his left hand side, he had no hesitation whatsoever to use his left foot)
  
• The 12 intercepts he was credited with, fantastic. The commentators (mainly that [censored] Darcy but also Richo) were saying how great fletcher is in that role of back half sweeper and whilst admittedly they played Sylvia on him after quarter time to curb him he ended up with only 7 intercepts. It is worth noting that Watts wasn't playing as a free man either
  

[binman 42,896]

Someone moved from CHF to HBF in an awful team is going to have their stats skyrocket.

Only if they are good. And besides how many players consistently have a disposal efficiency of around 85% (in the league, little lone Melbourne). So if his stats sky rocket and 85% of them hit their target then that's fantastic, particularly seeing we struggle so much with turnovers

[Ned 156]

Watts was stunning on Saturday night. His reading of the play and directing of traffic around him was absolutely superb and really strengthened our backline. It was a masterclass and should give him heaps of confidence.

Hurley can't kick straight and is pretty one-dimensional.

[JT9 104]

Essendon fan: Delusional Dees fans thinking Watts is now a gun by playing loose

Me: Adorable when Jobe Watson thought he could beat Watts in a 1on1 contest in the last minute of the game

Havnt heard back

[The Chazz 4,077]

Obviously it's a no brainer having him in the back-line because right now he can't impact games in the forward-line.

And because the back line is the easiest area to play footy right BH?

You won't be at all surprised with this, but I will absolutely challenge you on that opinion. 10+ years ago, sure, the backline would be considered an "easier" place to play, and no doubt in today's age in some lower levels of football (I'm talking a lot lower than your Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc leagues) it would still be the case. However, I have absolutely no doubt he backline is the hardest place to play in the AFL in its current state. To top it off, if you're wearing a red and blue jumper, and the I50 counts are so heavily agaisnt us in most games, it would be fair to say that the backline would be under the most pressure.

With forward presses, high opposition I50 numbers, the strong emphasis that teams put on forward pressure (such as tackles inside F50), and the fact that our players don't seem to "gut run" like most of our opponents, for Watts to have 20+ possessions a game, and on Saturday night be travelling at high-80's/low-90's% effiencey rate, he is doing what he does best - making something difficult look easy.

No doubt you will explain how you see football differently than I, or find some way to try and convince yourself that yours is bigger than mine, but let's see if you can actually reply without being your typical self. I'm doubtful.

[bing181 9,218]

Obviously it's a no brainer having him in the back-line because right now he can't impact games in the forward-line.

a) you don't know that because he hasn't played there

B) players play different roles at different stages of their career

c) it's as irrelevant as saying that Frawley only plays in the backline because he can't impact games in the forward-line

d) you're pushing an agenda as opposed to participating in a discussion

[old dee 23,787]

I think at the moment he'd prefer him in the position he can physically adapt to and play best. That's probably the backline.

That's 'cutting his losses' on his draft position, but so be it.

maurie if he is BOG I do not care what position he is playing.

If he ends up being the full back of the second decade of the 21st Century I will be delighted

Edited June 4, 2012 by old dee

[Hannibal 5,814]

And because the back line is the easiest area to play footy right BH?

You won't be at all surprised with this, but I will absolutely challenge you on that opinion. 10+ years ago, sure, the backline would be considered an "easier" place to play, and no doubt in today's age in some lower levels of football (I'm talking a lot lower than your Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc leagues) it would still be the case. However, I have absolutely no doubt he backline is the hardest place to play in the AFL in its current state. To top it off, if you're wearing a red and blue jumper, and the I50 counts are so heavily agaisnt us in most games, it would be fair to say that the backline would be under the most pressure.

With forward presses, high opposition I50 numbers, the strong emphasis that teams put on forward pressure (such as tackles inside F50), and the fact that our players don't seem to "gut run" like most of our opponents, for Watts to have 20+ possessions a game, and on Saturday night be travelling at high-80's/low-90's% effiencey rate, he is doing what he does best - making something difficult look easy.

No doubt you will explain how you see football differently than I, or find some way to try and convince yourself that yours is bigger than mine, but let's see if you can actually reply without being your typical self. I'm doubtful.

How can I reply without being my typical self ? I wouldn't be me, would I ?

There are some things that never change. Footy has always been won in the midfield. Finals are at an intensity that are well above 'home and away'. And invariably the best players of history (and today) play ahead of the ball (forward-line) because it's harder. Now you can try and convince yourself otherwise, but it's clearly easier to 'react' than 'initiate'. It's harder to make the play and easier to defend. I'm fine if you disagree and your thoughts are there for the world to see and so are mine. Others can judge the merits of our respective views.

Even Harry Taylor coming off 6 goals against GWS when asked this morning on SEN whether it's easier to play in the back-line or forward-line replied, "definitely the back-line". But what would he know ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

a) you don't know that because he hasn't played there

B) players play different roles at different stages of their career

c) it's as irrelevant as saying that Frawley only plays in the backline because he can't impact games in the forward-line

d) you're pushing an agenda as opposed to participating in a discussion

Did you say "he hasn't played there" ? He was dropped due to his poor performances "playing there".

And Frawley plays back because he's clearly a very good defender and has limited skill sets as a forward.

You guys crack me up.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

There are some things that never change. Footy has always been won in the midfield. Finals are at an intensity that are well above 'home and away'. And invariably the best players of history (and today) play ahead of the ball (forward-line) because it's harder.

I disagree with a few of your points, footy is usually won through defense, hawthorn, collingwood, Geelong, stkilda, 4 teams played in grandfinals, hawthorn clarkos cluster was a defensive set up, collingwood press, Geelong are near impossible to score against, and stkilda were the team with the least points against. Midfield does play apart but footy is won through the backline. Midfield is next and then forwards, the forward half is the easiest half of the field to play as you have to present rather than stop. The ball is coming to you not your opponent, and when you have players like pendlebury, hodge, dal santo, ablett kicking the ball to you it makes life pretty easy! It doesn't mean that the most exciting players are up front and they definitely get recognition, but other that north with Wayne Carey I don't really think many teams won grandfinals on the back of a forward.

[frankie_d 1,471]

Essendon fan: Delusional Dees fans thinking Watts is now a gun by playing loose

Me: Adorable when Jobe Watson thought he could beat Watts in a 1on1 contest in the last minute of the game

Havnt heard back

Just great!

Didn't really give this the thought it deserved - Neeld might have been short of defenders, but he chose (I know, maybe a forced choice) to leave Watts on Watson - and he Watts did ok - quite significant I reckon... Just brilliant disposal too - the best in our team.

I just have to buy a ticket on the reality bus now - it's so interesting to see D'Land in this mood - no calls to sack anyone!

lovely!