Neeld vs Bailey

[Guest oldman emubitter]

i posted on this board within a day of neeld being appointed

'the players better respect this bloke or the next 3 years will be a waste'

Edited April 1, 2012 by oldman emubitter

[Hannibal 5,814]

I reckon there are some excellent discussion points in the OP and congratulate Gotsy15 for raising them and responding in the way he has when he has been attacked for no good reason.

In essence if what he is doing is using fear as one of his primary tools then he won't gain the respect of the players and that is a major issue.

Where are these "attacks" you refer to ? Please use quotation marks.

Also, I pondered a couple of questions that perhaps you can answer, namely: How do you know what the game-plan is or whether it's being carried out the way the coach wants ? and "And as for being too hard as a coach, how do you know what he's like behind closed doors ? How do you know what he's like one on one?

Edited April 1, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[daisycutter 29,738]

The club as a whole needs to stop finding excuses. Neeld was loved at Collingwood so I don't see the problem being him. The responsibly rests with the players. If they don't realize they are playing for their careers so be it. We are better off as a club without them.

Trouble is who do we replace them with?

Sounds like you are talking about bottoming out again and rebuilding again.

You may be right but will the club survive another 4 years of being a bottom dweller?

[Guest Gotzy15]

Ben hur not successful in terms of winning premierships or finals. Somewhat successful in some ways such as flogging interstate sides at the G, consistently beating sides that are looking good this year such as Richmond and Essendon,being still in contention for finals at the business end of the season in 2010 and 2011 and occasionally mixing it with the big boys for 4 quarters (St Kilda in 2009,Collingwood twice in 2010,Hawthorn in 2010, WB in 2010) Baileys tenure wouldn't have looked too bad if we had have pinched 1 or 2 of those games. You can measure success in different ways. Everyone seems to think of the Bailey years as a total nightmare. I don't want to keep harping on about 2010 but 8.5 wins and a handful of very honourable losses was a great effort with a side that was by far the youngest and most inexperienced in the comp. Can't see this year being anywhere near as good as that!

[Dan Fantastik 50]

I can't see any game plan being successful when your team gets destroyed in the center clearances like we were yesterday. A disappointing result but I dont think the game plan is to blame.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Everyone seems to think of the Bailey years as a total nightmare. I don't want to keep harping on about 2010 but 8.5 wins and a handful of very honourable losses was a great effort with a side that was by far the youngest and most inexperienced in the comp. Can't see this year being anywhere near as good as that!

The game-plan was never conducive to finals footy. A few pretty wins in the H&A don't give me any jollies. Making finals under Daniher for 6 in 10 years didn't give me any jollies either, as I knew we were making up the numbers. There's only one type of success in my opinion and that's a flag. Nothing else matters.

You know what ? I'd rather strip things back to the bone and go backwards than play a style that appeases some supporters. Defence wins finals and in time Neeld will build a team that can have a shot at success. If he fails he fails, but I like the path he's treading. If it needs tweaking he's smart enough to tweak it.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Bailey coached attacking footy, but defensive footy wins big games. Neeld (a Malthouse disciple) knows this and will be granted a lot of time to get Melbourne grinding out wins with the goal of grinding out finals.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

This is insane!

Bailey had 4 years and had the worst wining percentage in the league ever.

Bailey failed.

I have said earlier our expectations should be no higher than they were in 2009.

Neeld needs 2 years to get the side to play the way he wants reliably.

Bailey had little time for ensuring accountability and defensive structure.

It hurts so much because the years of pain seem to have been for nothing.

Blame the previous regime for our situation give this one a chance.

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

Ben hur not successful in terms of winning premierships or finals. Somewhat successful in some ways such as flogging interstate sides at the G, consistently beating sides that are looking good this year such as Richmond and Essendon,being still in contention for finals at the business end of the season in 2010 and 2011 and occasionally mixing it with the big boys for 4 quarters (St Kilda in 2009,Collingwood twice in 2010,Hawthorn in 2010, WB in 2010) Baileys tenure wouldn't have looked too bad if we had have pinched 1 or 2 of those games. You can measure success in different ways. Everyone seems to think of the Bailey years as a total nightmare. I don't want to keep harping on about 2010 but 8.5 wins and a handful of very honourable losses was a great effort with a side that was by far the youngest and most inexperienced in the comp. Can't see this year being anywhere near as good as that!

You call that success Gotzy? Beating interstate clubs at the 'G and occasionally having a dip against a good side when players feel like being motivated??

HERE LIES THE CLUB CULTURE PROBLEMS....If this club does not aim higher consistently soon, the MFC will die...people will not keep paying $$$ to see this effort.

[Guest Gotzy15]

The game-plan was never conducive to finals footy. A few pretty wins in the H&A don't give me any jollies. Making finals under Daniher for 6 in 10 years didn't give me any jollies either, as I knew we were making up the numbers. There's only one type of success in my opinion and that's a flag. Nothing else matters.

You know what ? I'd rather strip things back to the bone and go backwards than play a style that appeases some supporters. Defence wins finals and in time Neeld will build a team that can have a shot at success. If he fails he fails, but I like the path he's treading. If it needs tweaking he's smart enough to tweak it.

I really hope that you're right. I hope that in the near future all demonlanders who have had their differences can come together for a beer and say it was all worth it because we just won a flag

[Guest Gotzy15]

This is insane!

Bailey had 4 years and had the worst wining percentage in the league ever.

Bailey failed.

I have said earlier our expectations should be no higher than they were in 2009.

Neeld needs 2 years to get the side to play the way he wants reliably.

Bailey had little time for ensuring accountability and defensive structure.

It hurts so much because the years of pain seem to have been for nothing.

Blame the previous regime for our situation give this one a chance.

But isn't Neelds job to come in and tweak the game plan?? Reinforce the strengths and improve on the weaknesses?? I don't care how bad the 4 years with Bailey were,some good work was done and the window should be opening. Life is short, 4 years can't be just wasted. What would jimmy say if you had said to him the last 4 years was a waste??

[Guest Gotzy15]

You call that success Gotzy? Beating interstate clubs at the 'G and occasionally having a dip against a good side when players feel like being motivated??

HERE LIES THE CLUB CULTURE PROBLEMS....If this club does not aim higher consistently soon, the MFC will die...people will not keep paying $$$ to see this effort.

I certainly don't disagree with you,not by any stretch. Our culture sucks.But I'm not sure that striking cold fear into the players and washing your hands of the previous game plan completely will help a great deal. You like neelds method so far?

[Guest oldman emubitter]

I certainly don't disagree with you,not by any stretch. Our culture sucks.But I'm not sure that striking cold fear into the players and washing your hands of the previous game plan completely will help a great deal. You like neelds method so far?

it would be interesting asking cam bruce what differences he sees between his previous and current clubs

[Bluelegs 36]

Much better. When the last time a nice friendly coach won a flag.

Chris Scott.

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

I certainly don't disagree with you,not by any stretch. Our culture sucks.But I'm not sure that striking cold fear into the players and washing your hands of the previous game plan completely will help a great deal. You like neelds method so far?

Yes. This list needs a rocket up them TODAY. Our list is well paid to play ELITE AFL Football. A tough and brutal sport.

Those who do not shape up to that. "The door is over there"

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Without reading any of the thread my initial thoughts are that our players don't respect either of them.

They didn't respect Bailey enough to want to put in the effort to win for him, and they don't respect Neeld enough to want to show him they are required to put in the effort to retain their spot in the team.

Worst of all they don't respect the jumper. How did this great club turn into such a bunch of self indulgent bumbs I'll never know!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Chris Scott.

Do you know Chris Scott?

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

So that fear is going to make our players better in your opinion??

If the great Norm Smith was still around he would answer that question in the affirmative.

[Guest Gotzy15]

Yes. This list needs a rocket up them TODAY. Our list is well paid to play ELITE AFL Football. A tough and brutal sport.

Those who do not shape up to that. "The door is over there"

Point definitely taken. I more than anyone want us to stand for something again and not be perceived as soft by the rest of the comp.Want Neeld to be hard but fair and still able to empathize with players at times. What are your thoughts on gameplan though??

[diesel 420]

Anyone who fears that Neeld is too tough or inflexible is deluded in what it takes to succeed at the very top level. Perhaps you can feel good and meander along in some organisations but I guarantee these aren't organisations at the cutting edge and leading in their respective fields, be they business, sport or anything else.

Why would Neeld need to be flexible or accommodating in his approach when it comes to what he demands of players, how to perform or their commitment to the game plan? By saying he should is really just saying that the tail should wag the dog. Doesn't work that way I'm sorry!

As far as I'm concerned Dean Baileys tenure at the MFC was an abject failure marked most notably by his inability to get the senior players at the club to lead on-field. A couple of promising performances did not give me the impression he would ever deliver the game plan or work ethic to win finals. Some of our wins last year IMO were actually the most ordinary wins I have ever seen from the club, against Brisbane and GC twice.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

wtf are you smoking OP

do you think Malthouse and Neeld just had the luxury of a great list at Collingwood, that is clearly not the case, the fact is they DEVELOPED them into a great side. We have absolutely zero excuse as our drafting opportunities have been in the top 2-3 in the competition over the last 5 years or so. Somethinh about this club just stinks, there is never any PASSION around the place, and thats what keeps us the laughing stock of the comp

I have a 10 year 'gold' membership that I have not renewed. I will not do so nor will I attend any matches until this club shows something. I have had an absolute gutfull.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Chris Judd said in an interview a few weeks back that one of his biggest motivators was 'fear' and considered it a positive thing.

That video of Bailey patting everyone on the head and going spare because they won a match just makes me feel weird. Much prefer the hardass whose respect you have to earn approach, like James Earl Jones in Best of the Best.

It's like that moment in the movie where it goes black and white and baby Tommy drops his ice cream. Do you want that? Do you want one of our players to take a back-kick to the head from a Korean who doesn't care if they live or die? No! They must be ready! Neeld will make them ready.

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

Point definitely taken. I more than anyone want us to stand for something again and not be perceived as soft by the rest of the comp.Want Neeld to be hard but fair and still able to empathize with players at times. What are your thoughts on gameplan though??

Gotzy until the players become hungry for the hard contested ball i am not going to judge the gameplan.

Neeld will respect the players who work hard and learn fast.

He did coach the Malthouse midfield. Don't forget that.

[Knuckles 73]

I agree Bailey failed and we need to give Neeld time. But I am worried he is by his responses in the press conference. Most importantly when asked if he was surprised by the result and his said no he wasn't. How can he have been at the club for 5 months had a full preseason to prepare and educate the players and then not be surprised that they lost. What kind of message does this send to the players.

Shouldn't he be preparing a team to win games, while continuing overall development with an eye to the future. We definitely needed to have a more defensive aspect to our game after 2011, but I am really concerned that Neeld may have tried to do to much to soon. I am trying to stay positive but the signs didn't look to promising for a better year this year. And if as supporters are feeling disenchanted by the continual losses and lack of progress, I am worried some of the players might start to get used to losing making it impossible to create a winning culture.

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

I agree Bailey failed and we need to give Neeld time. But I am worried he is by his responses in the press conference. Most importantly when asked if he was surprised by the result and his said no he wasn't. How can he have been at the club for 5 months had a full preseason to prepare and educate the players and then not be surprised that they lost. What kind of message does this send to the players.

Shouldn't he be preparing a team to win games, while continuing overall development with an eye to the future. We definitely needed to have a more defensive aspect to our game after 2011, but I am really concerned that Neeld may have tried to do to much to soon. I am trying to stay positive but the signs didn't look to promising for a better year this year. And if as supporters are feeling disenchanted by the continual losses and lack of progress, I am worried some of the players might start to get used to losing making it impossible to create a winning culture.

I think he is rating our list honestly. I was very happy to hear his honesty. Particularly sitting between our 2 captains. Nobody can hide now....