DEATH BY A THOUSAND KICKS

[danboyle99 2]

Irrelevant to the result but that holding the ball decision again nicholson? that led to Franklins 70m goal was disgusting.

[dee-luded 2,959]

When we kicked in from a point Jack Watts positioned inside the centre square - we're going to go long to a contest on the boundary line every time and we're never going into the corridor. He cannot be part of the play with this set-up. I just don't get it.

When we kick into a one-on-one in the forward 50 with Aaron Davey against a significantly taller opponent, why kick it up so he's got absolutely no chance? It's a revolutionary idea - kick it along the ground.

Obviously instructed to draw his player there, or otherwise he won't get selected in the team.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah - the recruiting guy.

Why don't we go after the Hawthorn chap?

Yep, or the Collingwood chap.

[Nasher 33,616]

Obviously instructed to draw his player there, or otherwise he won't get selected in the team.

Wouldn't a better instruction be to position himself somewhere where he can positively impact on the play?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I don't think anyone is blaming the umps for our poor performance. Criticising the umps performance is another matter. But I believe there is bias. I think dubious umpiring decisions often favour the better team - and it's not just because the better team is first to the ball etc etc. It is probably natural to err in that way as they "call it as they see it" - they see it through this psychological distortion. I suppose at the back of their mind is a feeling that it is more likely that the poorer team's player committed an error than the better team's player. Unfortunately, this sort of bias will appear to be a bias against MFC because we haven't been the better team for quite a while.

Good teams generally get to the ball first, dispose of it well, and tackle well.

Bad teams generally get to the ball second, get caught with the ball more often and tackle poorly because their skills are not as good.

Simple really.

[Guest Dr Who]

Whoever it was/is i cannot answer,

The

long-time list manager

that built this Hawks side was Chris Pelchen. Funny thing is has just left Hawks to take up a position with the Saints.

Pelchen is a "hard-arse" no-nonsense bloke/negotiator. However, Hawks also have another secret weapon regarding list management, they are one of the best phantom drafters giving them a huge advantage during trade periods. (Sorry but the guys name escapes me - I've never met him)

Edited March 11, 2012 by Dr Who

[BIG JIM 508]

As much as i want to play finals and win more games this year i think the one thing that has got to happen this year is

to make sure we dont have heavy loses that's how we will gain some respect back because thats our big problem right now the margin between

our best and worst. If we keep playing games like last year were we are out of the game at quarter time then i see things going to the s%%t very fast.

If we dont get beatin by more than 45 points all year that would be a big win for us. This club has got to stop teams making us look like once we break we give up.

[greenmachine 21]

even thou it was nab cup still not happy

[Craig Drinker 179]

Even though we got smashed by Hawthorn it is better that it came now than in the season proper. We still have a little time for our 45 or so coaches to sort out some of our current issues.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Even though we got smashed by Hawthorn it is better that it came now than in the season proper. We still have a little time for our 45 or so coaches to sort out some of our current issues.

Yes that is right. And i will be there in Round. 1

[Guest oldman emubitter]

Blaming the umpires is just another excuse . I haven't seen enough decisions yet that I would question but then again I never blame umpires . I see it as a cop out .

We lost the game last night all over the ground and on the scoreboard . We did win the contested possession count however , which was most pleasing . We're so far behind the top teams in so many aspects it's not funny . But ..................we're not on our own in that area and I reckon we can match it with the most of the other teams .

Neeld has a lot of work to do . Last night I saw so many fundamentals not adhered to . We've been taught to play a certain way in the last 4-5 years and old habits die hard .

A lot of our players don't know how to position themselves when they've got a chance for a free kick . And we often tackle in a very clumsy way . Again , Neeld has a lot of work to do .

Umpires just call it as they see it . There's no bias against us .

Cheers

surely you've watched games in adelaide and perth, most notably our game at adelaide oval V port last year. the umps had a significant impact on the game, to our detriment.

watching nba over the years, the commentators are always saying how rookies get very few calls against the pros, you have to earn your stripes.

so, if the umps see a 50/50 with luke hodge and rohan bail contesting, hodge will get the call 80% of the time.

umpires are invertebrates and geishen, or whoever is directing him, should be sacked

[Macca 16,970]

surely you've watched games in adelaide and perth, most notably our game at adelaide oval V port last year. the umps had a significant impact on the game, to our detriment.

watching nba over the years, the commentators are always saying how rookies get very few calls against the pros, you have to earn your stripes.

so, if the umps see a 50/50 with luke hodge and rohan bail contesting, hodge will get the call 80% of the time.

umpires are invertebrates and geishen, or whoever is directing him, should be sacked

We're gonna have to agree to disagree 'oldman emubitter' . I've made an artform of never complaining about umpires !

Here's a question for you .

Do you reckon the umpires have cost us a premiership in the last 47 years ? If the answer is no then you'll be getting closer to my mindset on umpires .

To me , it's always the big picture . I believe if you're 5 goals better than the other side you never have to worry about the odd umpiring decision . I realise of course , that I might be in the minority with my level of thinking but that doesn't mean I'm wrong .

In another post I've made mention of "home town" decisions and how that will never change . So it's pointless complaining . I don't believe in that "getting it off one's chest bit " either .

I just hate excuses . We got well beaten last night and some want to complain about some umpiring decisions . It's just too ridiculous for words .

By the way , when we play "interstate teams" at the MCG we quite often get the run of the umpires . Not many seem to notice . I do .

Cheers .

Edited March 11, 2012 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Spot on Macca.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yep , my thinking has always been that the better teams should get more free kicks . In fact , I don't reckon the better teams get rewarded enough .

How about they just get the frees that are warranted ?

And if you think that umpires don't pay enough free kicks we'll never agree on umpires, or probably much else. I prefer the game to flow and hate soft decisions. Obviously blatant frees need to be paid, but a hand across a shoulder with no force in a brutal sport only shows a lack of understanding and empathy to how the game is played. This preseason has been full of soft decisions. While umpiring virtually never decides a game, it was woeful last night. And of course it had no bearing on the result, or margin.

There are 3 reasons that umpiring in finals is always so much better than the home and away. The umpires don't pay 'barely there' frees, the best umpires are officiating, and the best teams tend to better execute the games functions, which is one of your points. When it comes to free kicks less is more.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Anyone who says the result of this practice game is not important, has no understanding whatsoever, of AFL footy.

It's a shame demonland has descended to JUST this now, the old debate about whether or not the preseason isn't important.

SW, you're absolutely dead wrong and dead right. The preseason is as impotant as it has to be for the side in question. And to prove it, the Swans were a dominant team, and even won a flag while not caring whatsoever about the preseason. Likewise, if the pies have a good year, their preseason will be forgotten. The cats won the flag last year and just got humiliated. Do you think ANYONE will be saying their preseason lack of endeavour was the reason they went bad if they do, indeed, miss the finals? Your opinion is ridiculous that it's all or nothing at this stage of the year. there isn't a code of football in the WORLD that takes a preseason as seriously as the real thing... So you're flat out wrong, if you take even a cursory glance at history. Hell, the blues won the thing, then won the spoon.

Where you're right is that it's not COMPLETELY unimportant. There are things to be gained... specific form of players, experiements, fitness... all the things we KNOW a preseason is for. The only game they'll care about is the preseason GF because there's a title on the line. And the players admit this. But that's as far as it goes.

You're on this site enough to see this, you clearly watch enough football to know there's a difference between the endeavour shown on a NAB game and the endeavour shown in the real thing... They're completely different. And yes, one is more important than the other. What kills me is that if the side goes badly this year, it's because they're not a good team... not because they tried or didn't try in a NAB cup game. Nobody in their right mind would fire a coach based on NAB cup form. That's crazy talk.

It's beyond me that ANYONE would still want to argue this.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Dappa Dan

[old dee 23,791]

24 Hours down the track I still have the same feeling.

We are an ordinary side that no amount of coaching changes or the number of them will change.

On a number of occasions on different threads over summer i stated.

"the team is basically the same cattle as last year"

I was usually told but we have a lot better coach and FD add a better game plan we will be better in 2012.

Well guess what guys we are not better.

One simple fact is screaming at us.

This bunch of players is simply not up to taking us out of the bottom half of the competition.

We may have a dozen or so of good players, but no champions, no game breaker and the rest are very average at best.

We will win a number of games in 2012, my best estimate is 8.

None of them will be against the top sides.

Normally I am fairly optimistic before the start of a new year but on 11 March 2012 I can see nothing but a sad year ahead.

IMO we have at best an average team, we will be distracted for most of 2012 by the Jurrah saga.

I do not believe in curses or bad luck but what else describes the Jurrah situation and the loss of one of our few good recuits for multipule weeks with a broken finger before the season even starts.

There is a long winter ahead

The Storm looks good at this point

[mollydee 22]

Remember how bad Hawthorn was in its first 2 seasons under its current coach ? How good they are now !

It will take time .

[old dee 23,791]

Remember how bad Hawthorn was in its first 2 seasons under its current coach ? How good they are now !

It will take time .

I hope I live that long!

It is now 5 years since it was decided our player stocks were not good enough mollydee.

Any idea what the time frame is?

[Macca 16,970]

How about they just get the frees that are warranted ?

And if you think that umpires don't pay enough free kicks we'll never agree on umpires, or probably much else. I prefer the game to flow and hate soft decisions. Obviously blatant frees need to be paid, but a hand across a shoulder with no force in a brutal sport only shows a lack of understanding and empathy to how the game is played. This preseason has been full of soft decisions. While umpiring virtually never decides a game, it was woeful last night. And of course it had no bearing on the result, or margin.

There are 3 reasons that umpiring in finals is always so much better than the home and away. The umpires don't pay 'barely there' frees, the best umpires are officiating, and the best teams tend to better execute the games functions, which is one of your points. When it comes to free kicks less is more.

You make some excellent points 'Ben-Hur' . Perhaps I should have added that the lesser team should get even less free kicks . My post was more about the ratio of frees given rather than the total amount . I can see how you've interpreted another way . So much explaining with the written word sometimes !!

My original post was about the perceived bias but I agree the umpiring in finals is often much better because they "let it go" . When it comes to over - officiating there may be a problem .

It seems when we get to finals time the attitude to umpiring decisions changes ( from the powers that be ) . Why can't we have that attitude all the time ? . The "make 'em earn it" way of thinking is a finals thing . The home and away season - who knows ?

Now , some reading this may see a contradiction in my posts but not so . There's a difference between having an opinion on over-officiating and any perceived bias . They're 2 separate issues .

Cheers

[BIG JIM 508]

24 Hours down the track I still have the same feeling.

We are an ordinary side that no amount of coaching changes or the number of them will change.

On a number of occasions on different threads over summer i stated.

"the team is basically the same cattle as last year"

I was usually told but we have a lot better coach and FD add a better game plan we will be better in 2012.

Well guess what guys we are not better.

One simple fact is screaming at us.

This bunch of players is simply not up to taking us out of the bottom half of the competition.

We may have a dozen or so of good players, but no champions, no game breaker and the rest are very average at best.

We will win a number of games in 2012, my best estimate is 8.

None of them will be against the top sides.

Normally I am fairly optimistic before the start of a new year but on 11 March 2012 I can see nothing but a sad year ahead.

IMO we have at best an average team, we will be distracted for most of 2012 by the Jurrah saga.

I do not believe in curses or bad luck but what else describes the Jurrah situation and the loss of one of our few good recuits for multipule weeks with a broken finger before the season even starts.

There is a long winter ahead

The Storm looks good at this point

I feel your pain but we will get better because hawthorne have had 11 pre seasons together we have had 2 maybe 3 we just look weak against teams like that we will win more then 8 games but we will still get a good touch up against teams like the hawks because they are the bigger and stronger. Hang in there im trying.

[rjay 24,928]

It seems when we get to finals time the attitude to umpiring decisions changes ( from the powers that be ) . Why can't we have that attitude all the time ? . The "make 'em earn it" way of thinking is a finals thing . The home and away season - who knows ?

Cheers

Funny thing Macca is that Gieschen swears there is no change at finals time, like there is no "rule of the week". We all know the opposite to be true...

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

Because their draftees have quality and experienced players to learn from.

Ours haven't had that at all.

That's the Nail hit firmly on the head and the reason we have suffered so long for Danners failure to turn over the list and rely on those who continually let him down when the going got to tough

[Macca 16,970]

Funny thing Macca is that Gieschen swears there is no change at finals time, like there is no "rule of the week". We all know the opposite to be true...

On this issue of umpiring I'm with you 100% rjay . And to think he's been the boss of umpiring for a number of years now !

It's a tough enough game to officiate without constant rule interpretations . Reward the bloke going in for the ball , but no ticky-touchwood frees please . A hand on the shoulder gets paid but shouldn't . "Around the neck" should be "Around the neck" not something of a much lesser nature .

And give the bloke with the ball a chance to get rid of it . What's wrong with ball-ups ? I can't see the difference between "attempting to get rid of the ball" or "not attempting to get rid of the ball" when it's clearly pinned . Just ball it up .

But....................there's no bias against our team !!

Cheers

Edited March 11, 2012 by Macca

[old dee 23,791]

I feel your pain but we will get better because hawthorne have had 11 pre seasons together we have had 2 maybe 3 we just look weak against teams like that we will win more then 8 games but we will still get a good touch up against teams like the hawks because they are the bigger and stronger. Hang in there im trying.

"Trying" is the word Big Jim.

Who do think are the teams we can beat?

I truely struggle with more than six wins.

Lions 2

GWS 2

GCS 1

Port 1

we are then a chance against the Bulldogs and Richmond if we strike them at the right time

i.e. our injuries down and theirs up.

Beyond those teams I think it is fanciful to imagine we can beat the other sides.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

24 Hours down the track I still have the same feeling.

We are an ordinary side that no amount of coaching changes or the number of them will change.

On a number of occasions on different threads over summer i stated.

"the team is basically the same cattle as last year"

I was usually told but we have a lot better coach and FD add a better game plan we will be better in 2012.

Well guess what guys we are not better.

One simple fact is screaming at us.

This bunch of players is simply not up to taking us out of the bottom half of the competition.

We may have a dozen or so of good players, but no champions, no game breaker and the rest are very average at best.

We will win a number of games in 2012, my best estimate is 8.

None of them will be against the top sides.

Normally I am fairly optimistic before the start of a new year but on 11 March 2012 I can see nothing but a sad year ahead.

IMO we have at best an average team, we will be distracted for most of 2012 by the Jurrah saga.

I do not believe in curses or bad luck but what else describes the Jurrah situation and the loss of one of our few good recuits for multipule weeks with a broken finger before the season even starts.

There is a long winter ahead

The Storm looks good at this point

At least you in a better place than the fantasy land you claimed to have been in 12 months.

Cheer up