Outrageous!!!

[Grandson of a gun 276]

What many people forget is that Jack was drafted as a 17 year old schoolboy who was tall but very lightly built.

He is only 20 now yet people talk as if he is a 25 year old who should be tearing the competition apart.

He has also played all of his 40 games in a crap team.

Travis Cloke was considered a spud until about 2008 playing in a good team

Jack Reiwoldt is in the same boat until 2010 when he was in his 4th year and 22 years old.

Bottom line is, Jack is still going to have his ups and downs this year and maybe even next year as he still adds size and strength to his frame and settles his position in the team down.

I have no doubt he will become a very good AFL player. Whether he becomes Elite no-one knows. But the bottom line is i couldn't care if he is coming off the bench as a role player if the role he plays helps us win that 13th premiership....

[Bobby McKenzie 2,267]

i feel for wattsy, must be difficult to deal with all the expectations and criticism.I for one hope he comes out this year and absolutely deeestroys it as im sure all of us on here do.

He's learning a new role. I have absolute faith in young Jack Watts! Wait until the REAL footy starts.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Bobby McKenzie

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I have absolutely no concerns about Watts. I think he'll be a bloody good player for us.

And comparing him with number one draft picks from other drafts is plainly ridiculous. Those players weren't ever in the mix with the pick we used on Watts.

Comparing Watts to the likes of Nik Nat or Hurley is IMO more relevant. Why? Because we could actually have picked those players in that year. It might be that the sands have now shifted, but MOST clubs would've picked Watts had they had our number one pick in 2008.

Surely comparisons with other number one draft picks is more relevant to ascertaining how good the respective draft years were.

[loges 6,338]

How long has it taken Hawkins to become an effective player and he started with a much more mature body

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

After watching the replay again, concentrating on JW. i find the comments of Mick Malthouse in public the most outrageous bit. He really got stuck in.

I believe it's a matter of when, not if, for Jack.

And when it happens, wait for Malthouse to say he always knew JW would come good, etc. It won't take the old hypocrite long.

[nutbean 8,837]

Those numbers do stack up but all of Johnno Brown, Riewoldt and Cloke were recognised for their work ethic and will to get to every contests.

Jack Watts work rate needs to be the same as the names mentioned.

He should be a better player then what he is atm.

He'll be a good player at worse but if he doesn't have the hunger, he's wasting a siht load of talent.

The idea of those comparisons was to compare Jack Watts with where those players were at the same time in their career - not where they are now.

Travis Cloke especially and to a lesser extent Reiwoldt were not recognised for their work ethic and getting to every contest as 20 year olds.

[Viney12 196]

How long has it taken Hawkins to become an effective player and he started with a much more mature body

And let's face reality - Hawkins had a purple patch in a grand final against an injured opponent

The way the fans and the media are fawning over Hawkins after that patch of form shows the fickle nature of the fans and media

[Hannibal 5,814]

I don't share the angst on this thread regarding the comments on Watts. It's understandable that supporters want to defend their own, it's a natural emotion, but I too despair at Watts intensity and lack of physicality. But I am patient.

My own eyes tell me that Watts has a long way to go, so I'll hardly be outraged when Malthouse, Carey, Wallace and others make similar observations. And do supporters really think they know more than football people that have played in premierships ? You're delusional if you do. Tim Watson referred to Watts as a "floater" and that Koutifides was similar when he first started out. He thinks Watts will work it out. So do I.

Everyone knows Watts has talent, everyone knows he was drafted when he was still at school as a 17 year old, everyone knows he's a skinny tall, everyone knows that skinny talls take time, and I donk think anyone is "writing him off". They're simply making judgments that he's about to commence his 4th year and right now he doesn't show the urgency required to play as a key forward. They would have all seen the pace, the kicking skills off both feet, the unbelievable hands/ability beneath his knees, the smart decisions he makes, etc. But they'd also note the half hearted one arm marking attempts, the decision not to comit to some packs, the passive tackling efforts, not always displaying the work-rate required, etc.

Watts may have a really good year. I expect he'll have a better year than last and continue to show improvement. But I won't be up in arms if I hear, or read warranted criticism. Whether he likes it, or not, it goes with the territory of AFL footy, especially if you're a former no. 1 pick.

Just as I won't complain if Watts is massively praised this year I won't complain if observations aren't as glowing. I'd be hypocritical if I did.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Btw, apropos the real meaning of this thread, I heard David King get stuck into the skunk last night. He rightly pointed out that Folau's performance had taken the spotlight off his feable efforts. Naturally Lynch, who is with his management group, gave a lengthy excuse as to why he's behind in his current development. But as King pointed out, not only has Scully hardly touched the footy he doesn't look like hurting the opposition with his ball use. I've watched both his matches this year and King is spot on. If you didn't know his name you'd think he was a fringe player.

Unfortunaley I accept that he's too professional and works too hard not to start having an impact, but he's a long way from being a dominant midfielder because he's just so small and physically weak compared to the best. He can't shrug tackles for starters.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Viney12 196]

I don't share the angst on this thread regarding the comments on Watts. It's understandable that supporters want to defend their own, it's a natural emotion, but I too despair at Watts intensity and lack of physicality. But I am patient.

My own eyes tell me that Watts has a long way to go, so I'll hardly be outraged when Malthouse, Carey, Wallace and others make similar observations. And do supporters really think they know more than football people that have played in premierships ? You're delusional if you do. Tim Watson referred to Watts as a "floater" and that Koutifides was similar when he first started out. He thinks Watts will work it out. So do I.

Everyone knows Watts has talent, everyone knows he was drafted when he was still at school as a 17 year old, everyone knows he's a skinny tall, everyone knows that skinny talls take time, and I donk think anyone is "writing him off". They're simply making judgments that he's about to commence his 4th year and right now he doesn't show the urgency required to play as a key forward. They would have all seen the pace, the kicking skills off both feet, the unbelievable hands/ability beneath his knees, the smart decisions he makes, etc. But they'd also note the half hearted one arm marking attempts, the decision not to comit to some packs, the passive tackling efforts, not always displaying the work-rate required, etc.

Watts may have a really good year. I expect he'll have a better year than last and continue to show improvement. But I won't be up in arms if I hear, or read warranted criticism. Whether he likes it, or not, it goes with the territory of AFL footy, especially if you're a former no. 1 pick.

Just as I won't complain if Watts is massively praised this year I won't complain if observations aren't as glowing. I'd be hypocritical if I did.

You make some valid points but I disagree with this

Commentators and football fans have already labelled him the wrong # 1 pick and not up to it

Leigh Matthews said after about his 5th game or so, he's done nothing to show he's worthy of pick one

They may know he was drafted at 17 and skinny and and and and......but they are failing to give him the due leeway before sticking the boots in

There is a certain venom and bile when people (mainly outside of our club) discuss Watts - it's almost like a disdain for him

[nutbean 8,837]

I have no problem with balanced criticism of Watts but what Malthouse said in my opinion was not balanced. Suggesting that he lacks ambition -pffft. Hey Mick - you certainly spent a fair bit of time defending Travis Cloke in his early days when he couldnt get within a kilometre of the ball.

I think we all have a fairly good handle on the progress made last year by Watts

I think most of us have fairly sensible expectations of what we wants this year - take last years good form and use that as the benchmark - kick more goals, impose himself on more contests.

But I also think most of us ( I hope ) understand that he is a 20 year old kid still feeling his way and as long as we see constant improvement then thats fine.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You make some valid points but I disagree with this

Commentators and football fans have already labelled him the wrong # 1 pick and not up to it

Leigh Matthews said after about his 5th game or so, he's done nothing to show he's worthy of pick one

They may know he was drafted at 17 and skinny and and and and......but they are failing to give him the due leeway before sticking the boots in

There is a certain venom and bile when people (mainly outside of our club) discuss Watts - it's almost like a disdain for him

Some may have been overly critical. Matthews simply said that he wasn't "a child prodigy". He said that in his limited viewing of him in that game he didn't see the traits that had made him a number one draft pick. He then added that clearly Melbourne have and that he's been drafted as a development player. I don't see anything wrong with Matthews' comments other than they were probably unnecessary, but to be fair he was asked a pointed question by Bruce McAveney and gave an honest assessment. Naturally, some won't agree with him.

Malthouse was unnecessarily aggressive considering it was NAB 2, but I suspect it was a preconceived opinion that Watts didn't dispell with his performance.

Dwayne Russell stated that Melbourne could have taken Naitanui and that Watts doesn't look like a first round draft pick. I thought he was the worst.

So, yes, some have been too critical. But I have no problem with opposition supporters and many in the media who think we got the number one pick wrong. There would hardly be a neutral observer who right now thinks Watts was the right pick.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[nutbean 8,837]

If Matthews said "Watts isnt a child prodigy" - then I have no problem with that - Franklin and Judd were freakish from day one. Even NikNat has shown tricks since his first game. Watts hasn't.

If Matthews said "Watts isnt worthy of no1 draft pick" - I disagree - the jury is still out for mine

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I don't share the angst on this thread regarding the comments on Watts. It's understandable that supporters want to defend their own, it's a natural emotion, but I too despair at Watts intensity and lack of physicality. But I am patient.

My own eyes tell me that Watts has a long way to go, so I'll hardly be outraged when Malthouse, Carey, Wallace and others make similar observations. And do supporters really think they know more than football people that have played in premierships ? You're delusional if you do. Tim Watson referred to Watts as a "floater" and that Koutifides was similar when he first started out. He thinks Watts will work it out. So do I.

Everyone knows Watts has talent, everyone knows he was drafted when he was still at school as a 17 year old, everyone knows he's a skinny tall, everyone knows that skinny talls take time, and I donk think anyone is "writing him off". They're simply making judgments that he's about to commence his 4th year and right now he doesn't show the urgency required to play as a key forward. They would have all seen the pace, the kicking skills off both feet, the unbelievable hands/ability beneath his knees, the smart decisions he makes, etc. But they'd also note the half hearted one arm marking attempts, the decision not to comit to some packs, the passive tackling efforts, not always displaying the work-rate required, etc.

Watts may have a really good year. I expect he'll have a better year than last and continue to show improvement. But I won't be up in arms if I hear, or read warranted criticism. Whether he likes it, or not, it goes with the territory of AFL footy, especially if you're a former no. 1 pick.

Just as I won't complain if Watts is massively praised this year I won't complain if observations aren't as glowing. I'd be hypocritical if I did.

This is full of subjectivity like "lacks intensity" " doesn't show the urgency". I prefer facts to perceptions. Back up this with some relevant stats please.

As regards the supposed expertise of "Malthouse, Carey, Wallace and others" dont forget they are in the media business and it is in their interests to be provocative. They arent accountable for when they get it wrong. They have to fill air and they do and a lot of it is drivel.

I saw enough last year to be satisfied that we have a good player in Watts. Just because a guy doesnt emote like some others (or beat up on his girlfriend for that matter) and therefore doesnt fill some alpha male sterotype doesnt mean he isnt passionate about the club and about winning and doing his part. Although I havent played in AFL Premierships (yet) I dont defer to some of the neanderthals that get media gigs on the basis of past glories. Neither should you.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Dinosaur Rover

[Mac7 309]

Not sure if this kinda thing has been posted already but let's have a look at some other KPP and Nic Nat to see (stats wise) where old Jack is at now after 40 games. I reckon he's exactly where he should be.

Matches Disposals Goals Behinds Tackles

Nick Riewoldt 40 577 39 31 49

Travis Cloke 40 461 28 46 57

Jonathan Brown 40 503 43 26 46

Nic Nat 40 469 14 14 144

Jack Watts 40 571 33 17 69

Sure these don't tell the entire story but at least it's something to compare with.

Edit: Sorry, the numbers don't line up.

Where did you find these stats?

[Harcourt 146]

footywire.com.au I'd suspect.

[caco demon 29]

Where did you find these stats?

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_Watts.html

And so on.

[Mac7 309]

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_Watts.html

And so on.

Thanks mate, blokes at work didn't believe these.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You make some valid points but I disagree with this

Commentators and football fans have already labelled him the wrong # 1 pick and not up to it

Leigh Matthews said after about his 5th game or so, he's done nothing to show he's worthy of pick one

They may know he was drafted at 17 and skinny and and and and......but they are failing to give him the due leeway before sticking the boots in

There is a certain venom and bile when people (mainly outside of our club) discuss Watts - it's almost like a disdain for him

Leigh did say that, I pondered what he was saying at that time. My thoughts were, that in saying what he said about Jack back then, my feeling was he was inferring something about our selection. That Jack took a spot that someone else should have had in the team. That he didn't deserve a spot at that point. And it took away from the game & the combat, putting a kid in who's not ready.

Remember the tanking debate was a Hot topic & passionately disliked by many around the AFL old guard...

[Biffen 12,524]

Leigh later said he could see why Jack was No.1 . They all talk shut utter shite that they rescind it later .Screw what the sheep say .Bryce Gibbs is crapola in my opinion .

[Mac7 309]

There is a certain venom and bile when people (mainly outside of our club) discuss Watts - it's almost like a disdain for him

Completely agree. Jack is going to be a disliked player for the rest of his career and a player that opposition supporters are going to stick the boot into at every opportunity.

It's going to be great seeing him rip games apart, win them off his own boot and stick it up em!!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mac7

[caco demon 29]

Thanks mate, blokes at work didn't believe these.

No worries. I have to do some calculations but every individual game played for the player is there. I was interested more than anything else. Stats are stats in the end but Jack is exactly where I thought he should be.

[jayceebee31 692]

Lucas Cook was our first pick 2 years ago at #12. he is the same height and build as Jack Watts. Also drafted as KPF. How many years can we give cook?

at least two or three,and he will be a beauty as well.Talls take time,that is why Watt will develop very well under Brown/Neeld,we are extremely lucky to have both.Brown is a beauty,takes the rucks as well.