The Melbourne Midfield

[Macca 16,741]

Always happy to agree to differ, Macster.

Out of interest though, can you name me a genuinely elite mid, past or present, that is solely a "predator" ? The best mids over the last 15* years have in the main been great in close, which is clearly Sylvia's weakness. It doesn't come naturally to him, whereas it does to Gysberts and Trengove. And even those boys need to improve this aspect of their game. By the way, I do want Sylvia rotating through the middle, because he's such a damaging finisher, I just don't see him ever being an elite mid.

*I say 15 years due to how much the game has changed in that time.

I don't reckon Sylvia has ever played enough full games in the middle for us to know ( for sure ) whether he's got what it takes . He has all the skills in my book except as you say ( in close ) but ...................he needs a fair whack of full games to see if he can develop in this area . And though he's not great "in close" , he's not totally inept either .

Ya know what , it probably won't happen but I have been saying it for 5 years ( not on any websites ) and I'm not about to abandon the idea yet !

I saw Watts win a fair bit of ball in close last year ( which was well pleasing ! ) so players can adapt to new roles .

For instance , you'd expect all the players to be way more accountable and to be able to lock down opposition players and teams this year ( with the new coach ) . The forward press ? ( every week ? ) This is going to be foreign territory for a lot of our players and some may not cut it .

Later in their careers Daicos and Kouta became very good "in close".

As for the 'predator' bit , I just don't see him that way ( solely ) I reckon his attack on the ball is often good but once again , he just hasn't played enough in the middle to form a sound judgement IMO .

One last point , Colin has spent nearly all his career on the HFF and so far most of us agree that he's a big unfulfilled talent . How about we try something different with him ? Just a thought .

Cheers

Edited February 14, 2012 by Macca

[DemonWA 3,889]

Moloney: Good ordinary midfielder

Bail: is very, very good..

Sorry but this post sums up to me the blindness of our fans. We're more interested in supporting potential with the hope that they'll deliver us our dreams, yet we write off our current best performers becasue we dont see any scope for improvement?! Beamer has only been fit for a couple of years, IMO his best footy is infront of him

[Hannibal 5,814]

I don't reckon Sylvia has ever played enough full games in the middle for us to know ( for sure ) whether he's got what it takes . He has all the skills in my book except as you say ( in close ) but ...................he needs a fair whack of full games to see if he can develop in this area . And though he's not great "in close" , he's not totally inept either .

Ya know what , it probably won't happen but I have been saying it for 5 years ( not on any websites ) and I'm not about to abandon the idea yet !

I saw Watts win a fair bit of ball in close last year ( which was well pleasing ! ) so players can adapt to new roles .

For instance , you'd expect all the players to be way more accountable and to be able to lock down opposition players and teams this year ( with the new coach ) . The forward press ? ( every week ? ) This is going to be foreign territory for a lot of our players and some may not cut it .

Later in their careers Daicos and Kouta became very good "in close".

As for the 'predator' bit , I just don't see him that way ( solely ) I reckon his attack on the ball is often good but once again , he just hasn't played enough in the middle to form a sound judgement IMO .

One last point , Colin has spent nearly all his career on the HFF and so far most of us agree that he's a big unfulfilled talent . How about we try something different with him ? Just a thought .

Cheers

You and I have quite a difference of opinion when it comes to "in close". I'll move on.

[Roost It 1,434]

Good post Macca. I think Neeld will give Sylvia a lot more responsibility than previous years. It won't hurt Col, or us for that matter, if he were to start in the guts at every bounce. It will also give us the ability to play both Petterd and Howe in the same team.

While I think Moloney is currently our best player, Col definitely has the the ability to be a match winner, and beside LJ, is probably our biggest X Factor player.

Why would Neeld give more responsibility to a guy who he has left out of the leadership group, suspended from Round ! and who has spent most of the preseason in rehab. Not to mention a player who has failed to put together anything like a complete season in 9 starts. Col won't start in the centre at every bounce because that's not where he hurts the opposition.

If Moloney is our best player we are doomed before we begin.

[Roost It 1,434]

Petterd is not in the same class as Sylvia, regardless of what position they play in.

Ricky Bobby is highly overated on this forum, and I am sure to be torn a newbie with that comment! Tear away punters, tear away!!!! Nb - I know there are some that agree, so please back me up when need be!

Why would anyone overate Petterd? He's proven injury prone, courageous to the point of stupidity and has played a handful of games worth rating...please go and do your homework.

[rjay 24,689]

Petterd is not in the same class as Sylvia, regardless of what position they play in.

Ricky Bobby is highly overated on this forum, and I am sure to be torn a newbie with that comment! Tear away punters, tear away!!!! Nb - I know there are some that agree, so please back me up when need be!

Yet to be seen, Petterd still has time on his side and Sylvia is running out of it.

[Buffalo 203]

Perhaps instead of talking about the players in the midfield, we should be talking about the coaches. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that Brian Royal being retained is a big plus, considering how our backline have performed over the last couple of seasons. And being a former rover himself, it makes sense that he is now our midfield coach. And no doubt he will adapt his coaching to Mark Neeld's input, especially as Mark was in charge of perhaps the best midfield in the competition. I don't think it's a coincidence that players suddenly improve when their coaches change - and our midfield is a fairly unchartered area when you consider who's been in charge over the last few seasons (Scott West was probably in over his head, and DB may or may not have noticed)...

I think the midfield will improve 100% this season, no matter who we throw in there, PROVIDED they follow instructions and execute...

[rjay 24,689]

Perhaps instead of talking about the players in the midfield, we should be talking about the coaches. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that Brian Royal being retained is a big plus, considering how our backline have performed over the last couple of seasons. And being a former rover himself, it makes sense that he is now our midfield coach. And no doubt he will adapt his coaching to Mark Neeld's input, especially as Mark was in charge of perhaps the best midfield in the competition. I don't think it's a coincidence that players suddenly improve when their coaches change - and our midfield is a fairly unchartered area when you consider who's been in charge over the last few seasons (Scott West was probably in over his head, and DB may or may not have noticed)...

I think the midfield will improve 100% this season, no matter who we throw in there, PROVIDED they follow instructions and execute...

I think it will make a big difference and it was no coincidence that Brian Royal was the only coach retained from last year.

[jnrmac 19,944]

Perhaps instead of talking about the players in the midfield, we should be talking about the coaches. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that Brian Royal being retained is a big plus, considering how our backline have performed over the last couple of seasons. And being a former rover himself, it makes sense that he is now our midfield coach. And no doubt he will adapt his coaching to Mark Neeld's input, especially as Mark was in charge of perhaps the best midfield in the competition. I don't think it's a coincidence that players suddenly improve when their coaches change - and our midfield is a fairly unchartered area when you consider who's been in charge over the last few seasons (Scott West was probably in over his head, and DB may or may not have noticed)...

I think the midfield will improve 100% this season, no matter who we throw in there, PROVIDED they follow instructions and execute...

Wellman was backline coach in 2010

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I think it will make a big difference and it was no coincidence that Brian Royal was the only coach retained from last year.

Was he the only coach still under contract?

[rjay 24,689]

Was he the only coach still under contract?

Then maybe it is a coincidence.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Why would Neeld give more responsibility to a guy who he has left out of the leadership group, suspended from Round ! and who has spent most of the preseason in rehab. Not to mention a player who has failed to put together anything like a complete season in 9 starts. Col won't start in the centre at every bounce because that's not where he hurts the opposition.

If Moloney is our best player we are doomed before we begin.

Gee Roost It, things aren't too flash then, considering Beamer was the BEST & Fairest winner last year, and finished the highest out of all our players in teh Brownlow.

Neeld WILL give Sylvia more responsibility because Col needs it to get to a level where we need him in a premiership push. You just need to look at the highlights Paul Roos showed last year after the Carlton game, and when Col "tagged" Judd. He had a job to do but was not compliant. He has managed to get away with that throughout his career, so I would expect Neeld to increase his responsibilities, so that at the end of the season if he doesn't improve, I think Neeld will be looking at Col's options.

And the fact that he is suspended from Round 1 will ensure that Neeld is harder on his and raises his expectations. Col has a lot of work to do this year, I think he can do it, but I think a lot is between his ears. From all reports he will play in the intrclub game on Friday, as will all bar 2 (Gawn and maybe Spencer?).

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yet to be seen, Petterd still has time on his side and Sylvia is running out of it.

Col is only 26, he has 5 years at least of quality football. He will need to improve this year, but I'm hopeful that Neeld can get the areas of his game that are currently lacking to the standard required.

Petterd can play midfield, but I don't htink he has the class to become a genuine midfielder. On a HFF, Sylvia easily has him covered.

I think it has been seen on a number of occasions. Petterd will have a good game here or there, Col gerenally has good games and the odd great game.

[H_T 3,042]

Gee Roost It, things aren't too flash then, considering Beamer was the BEST & Fairest winner last year, and finished the highest out of all our players in teh Brownlow.

Neeld WILL give Sylvia more responsibility because Col needs it to get to a level where we need him in a premiership push. You just need to look at the highlights Paul Roos showed last year after the Carlton game, and when Col "tagged" Judd. He had a job to do but was not compliant. He has managed to get away with that throughout his career, so I would expect Neeld to increase his responsibilities, so that at the end of the season if he doesn't improve, I think Neeld will be looking at Col's options.

And the fact that he is suspended from Round 1 will ensure that Neeld is harder on his and raises his expectations. Col has a lot of work to do this year, I think he can do it, but I think a lot is between his ears. From all reports he will play in the intrclub game on Friday, as will all bar 2 (Gawn and maybe Spencer?).

Agree re: Col and have said as much on his thread in the Locker Room.

I think he can play occassionally in the midfield billy, but as you've highlighted some tasks he just doesn't seem to adhere to as a coach (or supporter like us) would like. You're right, between the ears. When he does apply himself he looks great, but he can seem to fall back on his laurels as if he's done some hard work...I'll try again later...so he tends to fade in and out with the occassional good play...if you know what I mean. I agree with BH that he is more a finisher (a quality finisher) and can have more of an impact as a forward/half forward than as a fulltime mid.

[rjay 24,689]

Points taken billy and H_T ,but my worry is that Col is becoming the Melbourne version of Kosi, promises so much and delivers little, he also shares a similar lack of awareness. Let's hope he can deliver on the promise, if he can it will be a bonus.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Interesting little thing on The Age website at the moment. They have photos of approx 50 players that have played less than 50 games that they consider emerging midfielders (ones that can become stars).

We have Trengove and Gysberts.

Disappointing considering what we've been through over the past 4 years.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Points taken billy and H_T ,but my worry is that Col is becoming the Melbourne version of Kosi, promises so much and delivers little, he also shares a similar lack of awareness. Let's hope he can deliver on the promise, if he can it will be a bonus.

I quoted this on the CS page. I will repeat it here. 10 votes in the Brownlow only behind Beamer, 1st for goals assists, 2nd in tackles, 5th in total possessions for the MFC

[Guest melbman]

Gysberts... not sold. Can't see him becoming an elite

Gysberts is a strange one. He just always happens to be where the ball is but I don't see him working for it. I don't know what to think when it comes to him

[H_T 3,042]

I quoted this on the CS page. I will repeat it here. 10 votes in the Brownlow only behind Beamer, 1st for goals assists, 2nd in tackles, 5th in total possessions for the MFC

And yet, still much scope for improvement.

[Bossdog 2,002]

And yet, still much scope for improvement.

Agreed as is the same for every player on our list

[Sir Why You Little 36,761]

Interesting little thing on The Age website at the moment. They have photos of approx 50 players that have played less than 50 games that they consider emerging midfielders (ones that can become stars).

We have Trengove and Gysberts.

Disappointing considering what we've been through over the past 4 years.

Yes...very disappointing...i think teams would look very closely at the pros & Cons of "tanking" over a long period of time by looking at the MFC Template...After 5 years we could well be still struggling...Hope Not but it is a possibility...Tanking for Draft picks i do not see it as poular as others.

A well picked Recruitment team and a well drilled Footy Department i think is the better way to go.

That said..in 2008 the Club had no choice but to do what it did, because our list and Footy Dept & Facilities were in such a bad way.

But we are still paying for that now....The Bank Cup will tell us all a lot about attitude, the silverware is not important. the commitment is.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1. The aspect of tanking or bottoming out has a timeline of success greater than 5 years. And in MFC the problems with our list and given what has transpired with Scully we could still be out of the 8 in 2012. (depends on your definition of struggling).

2. Hawthorn, Collingwood and Carlton have attempted to bottom out to varying degrees and 2 of those have won flags so its not doom and gloom.

3. A well picked recruitment team will only get you so far if they dont have the draft picks. In addition, you wont get the well drilled footy department if there is not the underlying talent in the players to extract. For all that happened in 2011 at MFC, Neeld has inherited the opportunity to mould a talented list that is now up to 4 to 5 years of maturity.

I am not sure we are paying for tanking now. I am not sure if there was a better option for MFC in 2008 that would not mean we are paying more harshly.

[Carrot Top 947]

Interesting little thing on The Age website at the moment. They have photos of approx 50 players that have played less than 50 games that they consider emerging midfielders (ones that can become stars).

We have Trengove and Gysberts.

Disappointing considering what we've been through over the past 4 years.

I think they've sold Jordie short then. Anyway with compo picks, Viney and the rest of the mids doing what they are paid to do I think we'll be in a pretty comfortable position if those two go to the next level.

[Macca 16,741]

You and I have quite a difference of opinion when it comes to "in close". I'll move on.

Well we're probably not far apart in all reality . I'm totally sure I know what "in close" means . It's largely self explanatory . Our differences might be that I reckon a different coach can develop players in role's that we never thought possible . I remember Barassi threw Robbie on to the HBF for a time there . People were in uproar ! And Northey got the team to play with a ferocious desire at times that stunned many of us ( especially those of us who'd witnessed the dark times )

I reckon a lot of our players have a huge upside . Especially in the area of winning contested footy in the midfield . Moloney shouldn't be our only decent performer in that area .

Cheers