Training, Monday 30th January, 2012

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

I have not seen anyone talk him up as superstar potential for sometime. What number he was drafted should not have no affect on expectations or the way he is critiqued 4 years on. His first couple of season we pumped games into him and created a feeling that getting wide kicks as an unaccountable wingman was ok. He then had two disrupted pre-seasons and we changed the expectations.

To be clear I dont see Cale in our first 21 and would probably pick at least another 3 before him. However the training I have seen has not shown that he is not attempting to improve his game and that is all I really care about until the season starts and we have something to judge them on.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

I'm sorry, I'll word it differently.

I believe that one of the reasons there is ongoing discussion and debate about Cale Morton here at demonland is because many people still rate him as a highly skilled footballer and it's something that

myself and many others can't work out.

Everyone sees our game differently. Everyone has played football at a different level. Some higher than other's. Some haven't ever played competitively.

Whether people will like to admit it or not (and as I'm sure it would go with most sporting codes), as a general rule

the higher the level of competition one plays of their sport, the greater their understanding of the game will be. Is that a reasonable statement?

For the people that think a forward running, unaccountable, non-contested, average disposal but high possession count game deserves praise, I question their football knowledge

and to what grade and level they have played football themselves.

For people that believe Cale's kicking ability is a feature of his game, I question how deep their knowledge and to what grade/level of football they have played themselves.

For the people that believe Cale's weight issues are the sole hindrance of his footballing abilities, I again question their understanding of the game and to what level they have played themselves.

Cale was rated extremely highly after a dominant year playing under 18 football. He was taller than most and could run all day translating to dominant games of football which included

high possession counts and marking over opponents easily. Contested football, aggression, tackling, blocking, defensive running and marking (among other attributes) were/are not

attributes Cale Morton carried or carries. But why would they be when he was given the football so often and could out mark most at under 18 level?

His disposal is another debate all together.

As an 'outside' player, his kicking skills are not up to standard in my opinion and many other's. (Again, the answer will be different depending on

the person asked and to what level they have played the game).

Nothing happened to Cale Morton. He just got a shock once he made it to an AFL club and I think he has realised that having a large tank and being taller than other's

isn't enough to make it as an AFL player. Maybe under 18's or amo's.

It's not looking great for him. But obviously he, (like every other player on our list) has a chance to show whether or not he can develop enough weapons to contribute to the

team on match day.

Steve, do not disagree with anything in your assessment of Cale. However not rating him does not require criticism at every opportunity.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Steve, do not disagree with anything in your assessment of Cale. However not rating him does not require criticism at every opportunity.

Fair enough. As I said, I feel obliged to comment and criticise when there is too much unnecessary praise for a player going on. It's a forum for debate and discussion and opinion.

If everyone came on here to declare their love for every player just because they pulled on an MFC guernsey (no matter how skilled they were), demonland would be pretty boring.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Just so everyone knows my status on Cale:

Impartial. Hope he shows some serious improvement this year. Specifically his desire to chase, tackle and WANT to win the ball.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The only reason Morton is continually criticised on this forum is because he has been, and still is talked up so much.

There would be not nearly as much criticism if people didn't jump out of the blocks stating he would be a 'star'.

Respectfully Steve, I don't agree. For my part I'm disappointed that our pick 4 has been spent on a player which plays like a girl in the Brownies. Thats all. At the least he could show some vigour. Some tenacity. Some, go where angels fear.

Not too much, just some. Just enough to get the hackles raising the 'druff.

[Left Field 313]

Could it be that Cale lost confidence from the subsequent analysis of him running away from Brendan Lade? Pretty hard to watch - much harder for a young guy living under the microscope to forget I'd guess.

[gsmith12 491]

Thanks for the reports - good reading.

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

Your opinion on Cale would come across alot easier without the mightier than thou attitude embedded in it.

Recruiters still draft players because of what they can do and not what they can't, largely that's the coaches job.

That said I do agree with you in most points. When I think of Cale's strengths - height, endurance and high possession winning I really think it's a good start for a half back flanker. I just wish we could fix his kicking and get it back to how it was in the U18's. The rest, the lack of physicality and the lack of size can improve with confidence and coaching very easily. If he can't get a game in the seniors this year I'd like him to play half back flank for Casey and be in charge of kick out and instructed to get as much ball as possible. Sure it might not fix his problems with strength but just getting the footy in his hands and having the responsibility might be a good start.

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

Could it be that Cale lost confidence from the subsequent analysis of him running away from Brendan Lade? Pretty hard to watch - much harder for a young guy living under the microscope to forget I'd guess.

I doubt it. I think the knee injury at the start of the 2010 season hurt him though. He's started behind the 8 ball in the last 2 seasons, he might benefit from playing all NAB cup fixtures this year to build confidence. And to have the opportunity to win his spot. He's been gifted his return too often in his career.

[biggestred 5,088]

Arg. All this Cale Morton talk annoys me.

The boy played his first 4 years of football in the crappest team ever. His confidence is completely shot.

Give him some time to get his confidence back up and he will be fine.

The end.

[Lutz 76]

Fair enough. As I said, I feel obliged to comment and criticise when there is too much unnecessary praise for a player going on. It's a forum for debate and discussion and opinion.

If everyone came on here to declare their love for every player just because they pulled on an MFC guernsey (no matter how skilled they were), demonland would be pretty boring.

Yeah, thanks for that Steve.

This thread was in danger of becoming a Cale Morton love-fest... Of biblical proportions (cos everything was big in the BIBLE).

Or even worse - we could've stayed on topic.

thanks for the training reports guys.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Lutz

[Harrisonrules 273]

I'm sorry, I'll word it differently.

I believe that one of the reasons there is ongoing discussion and debate about Cale Morton here at demonland is because many people still rate him as a highly skilled footballer and it's something that

myself and many others can't work out.

Everyone sees our game differently. Everyone has played football at a different level. Some higher than other's. Some haven't ever played competitively.

Whether people will like to admit it or not (and as I'm sure it would go with most sporting codes), as a general rule

the higher the level of competition one plays of their sport, the greater their understanding of the game will be. Is that a reasonable statement?

For the people that think a forward running, unaccountable, non-contested, average disposal but high possession count game deserves praise, I question their football knowledge

and to what grade and level they have played football themselves.

For people that believe Cale's kicking ability is a feature of his game, I question how deep their knowledge and to what grade/level of football they have played themselves.

For the people that believe Cale's weight issues are the sole hindrance of his footballing abilities, I again question their understanding of the game and to what level they have played themselves.

Cale was rated extremely highly after a dominant year playing under 18 football. He was taller than most and could run all day translating to dominant games of football which included

high possession counts and marking over opponents easily. Contested football, aggression, tackling, blocking, defensive running and marking (among other attributes) were/are not

attributes Cale Morton carried or carries. But why would they be when he was given the football so often and could out mark most at under 18 level?

His disposal is another debate all together.

As an 'outside' player, his kicking skills are not up to standard in my opinion and many other's. (Again, the answer will be different depending on

the person asked and to what level they have played the game).

Nothing happened to Cale Morton. He just got a shock once he made it to an AFL club and I think he has realised that having a large tank and being taller than other's

isn't enough to make it as an AFL player. Maybe under 18's or amo's.

It's not looking great for him. But obviously he, (like every other player on our list) has a chance to show whether or not he can develop enough weapons to contribute to the

team on match day.

Playing level of football in my opinion does not equate to ones ability to assess football or footballers. Personal experience tells me that of the teams I have played in those who display the greatest ability to read what is going on does not equate to the standard of player in the team. Through the years of following football and enjoying discussions with countless over the years similarly illustrates the same point. It is a totally different activity of the brain than physical ability and intuitive reading of the play.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Everyone sees our game differently. Everyone has played football at a different level. Some higher than other's. Some haven't ever played competitively.

You do realise that quite a number of people with exceedingly good football credentials saw a lot more talent with Morton than you ? This may account for the fact that he was a top 5 pick and that plenty down at the club rated him as one of our most important players moving forward even after he'd been on our list for a year. It's not just some of the nuff nuffs that you think frequent here.

That said, the guy has been very disappointing and stagnated badly.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Cale will not play a senior game this year.

[rjay 24,928]

Whether people will like to admit it or not (and as I'm sure it would go with most sporting codes), as a general rule

the higher the level of competition one plays of their sport, the greater their understanding of the game will be. Is that a reasonable statement?

Mmmm...looks like the doggies may be in trouble this year.

[Demondeb 8]

Thanks for all the reports guys....stuck in the office all day today...!

These bosses are so unreasonable.. expecting you to work when you could be enjoying yourself watching the Dees train. Mine is definitely like that. I would have to just disappear and take a sickie..

I should add being on the GC would mean at least 2 days off.. one to travel and one to watch training.. guess he might notice i am gone by then.

[DeeSpencer 25,711]

Mmmm...looks like the doggies may be in trouble this year.

Of course they are, everyone knows the only Brisbane, Essendon and Collingwood will content for the flag this year.

But lets not get too harsh on steve. In general he is right. Ex AFL players probably know more than D4 Ammo's who would know more than guys who never stepped on a footy field. But there are many exceptions and I'd bet my left nut that Brendon McCartney or whatever his name is knows more about footy than David Schwartz.

[jnrmac 20,065]

I doubt it. I think the knee injury at the start of the 2010 season hurt him though. He's started behind the 8 ball in the last 2 seasons, he might benefit from playing all NAB cup fixtures this year to build confidence. And to have the opportunity to win his spot. He's been gifted his return too often in his career.

Started behind the 8 ball in 2 seasons - what you think last years finger injury set him back????? Good grief. Sadly Cale just hasn't got it. His efforts are sometimes laughable. That is what riles people up the most. And like the other members of his footballing family they seem to coast. Look at what has happened to them.

Still he gets another chance this year. I hope he realises its his last one.

[Roost It 1,434]

Although several of you believe Cale is a dud one only has to watch his first 2 years at the club to realize the talent is there. He is tall, has a great tank and can play forward or back. Having him in the midfield was a mistake of the past coaching team. His physical size is irrelevant, it's his desire to get the ball that must get bigger not his biceps. He needs to be coached to play to his strengths,running, marking and kicking must become top notch for Cale to fulfill his promise.

As for expectations being too high, bull dust, he was pick 4 and needs to deliver. I'm backing him to make it simply because he is now surrounded by a top notch coaching team with the facilities to match.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Yeah, thanks for that Steve.

This thread was in danger of becoming a Cale Morton love-fest... Of biblical proportions (cos everything was big in the BIBLE).

Or even worse - we could've stayed on topic.

thanks for the training reports guys.

In general Lutz. Not only about Morton and not only in this thread.

You know exactly what I mean.

But I am glad your overuse of sarcasm hit the sweet spot for you.

Playing level of football in my opinion does not equate to ones ability to assess football or footballers. Personal experience tells me that of the teams I have played in those who display the greatest ability to read what is going on does not equate to the standard of player in the team. Through the years of following football and enjoying discussions with countless over the years similarly illustrates the same point. It is a totally different activity of the brain than physical ability and intuitive reading of the play.

Well, unless you have the odd exception to the rule or example, you will find that pretty much every coach within the AFL system has played the game to at least a VFL standard. That's got to tell you something surely...

I'm using logic here. Someone who has played a higher grade of football is more likely to have a better understanding the game than someone who hasn't made that level?

[Roost It 1,434]

Well, unless you have the odd exception to the rule or example, you will find that pretty much every coach within the AFL system has played the game to at least a VFL standard. That's got to tell you something surely...

I'm using logic here. Someone who has played a higher grade of football is more likely to have a better understanding the game than someone who hasn't made that level?

Yes and they chose Morton you dimwit

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Your opinion on Cale would come across alot easier without the mightier than thou attitude embedded in it.

I'm just giving my opinion master.

There is no 'mightier than though' stigma attached.

I didn't say 'I have played with x and y player and we played at this level' etc.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Yes and they chose Morton you dimwit

I said as a general rule, people will have a better understanding of the game if they have played at higher level than those who have not.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Could it be that Cale lost confidence from the subsequent analysis of him running away from Brendan Lade? Pretty hard to watch - much harder for a young guy living under the microscope to forget I'd guess.

Nah, it was WAY before that. He learnt at the start to get 'cheap' kicks in the back pocket, 25 Mtrs from the kickout. He flourished with the Uncontested ball from there on. He has never truly applied himself to contesting man on man. Always seeking the spaces & the easy kick where he could plod away with the ball.

It's the old ways of the original 2000 teams of Danners.

The game has changed since Cale was recruited & space is a rare commodity. So physical pressure is everwhere, nowhere to hide Cale.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

As far as i am concerned Cale gets the present preseason and this season to prove us all wrong. I will be really interested to see how the FD & Neeld use Cale in the structure, or if he is not used. It is now up to Cale to shape up. His pace throughout a game is his positive. Where will that place him?

Interesting...