Narrowing in on either Grimes or Trengove for Captain

[wackojacko 25]

I prefer Moloney as captain

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,332]

Jimmy Bartel was quoted by the Herald Sun below when Selwood was named as captain yesterday.

"Since he walked into the club he had 'captain' written all over him," Bartel said. "That goes to all areas; the way he handles himself amongst the group, his professionalism, the way he prepares to play, the way he leads on the field, the way he attacks the game."

I thought it was interesting to hear from a player what was important particularly from such a strong culture. Based on this criteria, from an outside perspective would this change your view on who it may be? A mate of mine did a decent job of convincing me that Chip is a more than a fair chance.

[Whispering_Jack 28,094]

Unless you're close to the players then you really don't know the character traits of the players involved and therefore it's difficult for us on the outside to gauge whether a player is right from that perspective.

When interviewed on SEN last weekend, Mark Neeld gave nothing away and refused to dismiss any possibility - even joint captains (which I personally don't favour).

I was left in no doubt that Neeld regards this appointment as fundamental to the future direction of the club and that his decision will be based on the need to look forward and not back. In terms of the age group from which our next captain will be selected, I think it will therefore be somewhere between Jack Trengove and James Frawley.

I admire the ability of Jack Grimes as a player and think he's going to make a big difference when he gets on the park regularly, something that is now well overdue. He's had to endure that difficult period on the sidelines while things came crashing down at the club and it would not surprise that this experience would have added steel to his resolve. Everyone speaks highly of his character and he's my personal favorite for the job.

[Slartibartfast 16,021]

Based on this criteria, from an outside perspective would this change your view on who it may be?

Who knows BR, but in the Age article I note with interest Selwood saying the role of captain for him was daunting. He's won 3 flags and has a huge amount of support around him. It made me think just how hard it would be for Grimes or Trengove without that culture or mature support because the reality is neither IMO are the precocious talents of Voss or Carey and neither has really established themselves as AFL players. Trengove is going into his 3rd season and Grimes his 5th but only a handful of games.

Very hard, and I think unrealistic, ask of those boys.

Edit: Teribal spelleing eror.

[Hannibal 5,814]

neither IMO are the precious talents of Voss or Carey

Do you mean precocious ?

[Slartibartfast 16,021]

Do you mean precocious ?

Yep, thanks.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,332]

Who knows BR, but in the Age article I note with interest Selwood saying the role of captain for him was daunting. He's won 3 flags and has a huge amount of support around him. It made me think just how hard it would be for Grimes or Trengove without that culture or mature support because the reality is neither IMO are the precocious talents of Voss or Carey and neither has really established themselves as AFL players. Trengove is going into his 3rd season and Grimes his 5th but only a handful of games.

Very hard, and I think unrealistic, ask of those boys.

Edit: Teribal spelleing eror.

Thanks Fan. I read that but I interpreted that as moreso daunting off the back of the era and fantastic captains that have just come before him. We do not have that issue. I am very much against an interim appointment and more so hopeing they go for who is the best person that fits the attributes they see as important at this time. If they are 20 or 26 I really dont care. I am starting to question my initial views on what is important particularly from a external spokesman perspective. Does Chip have any less polish than Maxwell when he first took the helm? One of the best captains I can recall in my time is Paul Kelly who was not a great media performer. I am wondering is it that important or is it really all about marshalling the group both on and off field?

[Slartibartfast 16,021]

Do you have concerns over the captaincy hindering their playing development.

I do and that's my worry.

[Damo 3,019]

One issue I have is the captain needs to be fixed in his role and not in a position where they dont start onfield.

If JT or JG are busting a gut to try to play midfield when they can only nail down a flank in 2012 their focus is split.

JT would always command some-one thinking about negating him but Grimes might have less game time and be seen as less of a problem for opposition.

If Green wants to play forward this year but has to accept he might be filling holes elsewhere, his mind may be 100% on his game without then being possibly burdened with an on field leadership duty as well. IMO this hindered him in 2011.

Chip and Jamar have cemented their spots as the best players "in their roles", they dont need to be overly concerned which then allows a wider viewpoint.

just saw fans earlier response above.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Franky_31

[monoccular 16,394]

Who knows BR, but in the Age article I note with interest Selwood saying the role of captain for him was daunting. He's won 3 flags and has a huge amount of support around him. It made me think just how hard it would be for Grimes or Trengove without that culture or mature support because the reality is neither IMO are the precocious talents of Voss or Carey and neither has really established themselves as AFL players. Trengove is going into his 3rd season and Grimes his 5th but only a handful of games.

Very hard, and I think unrealistic, ask of those boys.

Edit: Teribal spelleing eror.

I must say that I agree with you on this.

Grimes hasn't established himself on the field, through no fault of his own, and needs to put in a season of top footy first. Trenners is looking good but is well behind the head ducker who now leads Geelong, in experience and in delivery.

Rethink in 12 months....but now is premature.

PS: and I think it is time to make an announcement....this is dragging on far too long.

Edited January 21, 2012 by monoccular

[Hannibal 5,814]

Do you have concerns over the captaincy hindering their playing development.

I do and that's my worry.

I know I do, but that's where I'll back the club's judgement.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,332]

Do you have concerns over the captaincy hindering their playing development.

I do and that's my worry.

I have concerns of the captaincy hindering performance regardless of the stage of development of a player. Green could not have been more senior and was clearly weighed down by it. Some players I think thrive under the responsibility and become better players because of it. I do not have enough inside knowledge to understand but I am sure those that will make the decision will look at how the candidates are likely to handle themselves and seriously take this into consideration. Grimes and Trengove captained their state at under 18 level and personally excelled under the microscope of AFL recruiters whilst leading their sides. That to me is not a bad indicator.

Edited January 21, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[DeeSpencer 23,483]

If a captain is weighed down by pressure and not performing then 9/10 times it is the fault of the rest of the playing group and particularly the leader, not the captain.

I just want a captain who will give his all every week and play like a captain regardless of how many kicks they get. For mine thats why I think Trengove and Grimes would do a better job than Green.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What got me was not so much the missed goals, but the body language. How many successful captains do you see, when the chips are down, hunching their soldiers and walking about. To me a good captain has least to do with how they play. A good captain needs to be a vocal captain. When things aren't working, he needs to be out there on the field talking, trying to inspire, trying to pass on ideas and knowledge. Green was completely incapable of this. The amount of times this year where I was looking for him to rally around the boys and have a word, get in their ears and try to inspire them equals the amount of times that I saw him doing nothing of the sort. I saw hime miss the "captains goal", and instead of running back and getting verbal trying to inspire in a different way, he would just mope. That's the only word I can think of to describe it effectively. His onfield body language when the chips are down, is that of a moper. And, sorry guys, but that aint the actions of a true captain. The other curious thing I noticed whilst looking for Green to be getting vocal, was someone else who seemed to be filling that role quite nicely. His name is JT, and for this reason, I do believe that he should be the next captain of the MFC. When the chips were down, he never showed it. He never let it get on top of him. He just kept going about what he needed to do, talking to the men beside him and trying to find a way to win. Yes he's young, but he is mature beyond his years and I can think of no better candidate at the MFC.

This was the thing I most noticed with Green this year, the look of resignation on his face and the poor body language when the opposition took control of a game. There was one game at Ettihad where we were getting overrun and every time the opposition kicked a goal he just wandered back to the wing without a word of encouragement to any of the players.

That was the day he completely lost me as Captain.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I was listening to Neil Balme on the radio the other day and he stated that the leadership group is considerably more important than the individual that's made captain. Melb has been bereft of a quality leadership group for years. While the captain is obviously important let's hope we're starting to assemble a group that can be a powerful nucleus of this side for the next 5-7 years.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[The Great Pretender 430]

This was the thing I most noticed with Green this year, the look of resignation on his face and the poor body language when the opposition took control of a game. There was one game at Ettihad where we were getting overrun and every time the opposition kicked a goal he just wandered back to the wing without a word of encouragement to any of the players.

That was the day he completely lost me as Captain.

Similarly with his off field performances in the media. Just not strong or convincing and this tended to permeate through everything involving the side.

[DEELIGHTED 16]

My mail is Green wont be seriously considered to captain again.

Several players including some quite senior ones, have been given the mother of all rev ups, as they are seen to be not serious enough about doing all the hard yards with the right attitude. " Tougher is better".

Apathy will not be tolerated anymore and the whole playing list has been warned to lift their training efforts, BIGTIME!

This spray has happened behind closed doors and not in front of supporters. The danger was that younger players would accept this mediocre attitude again................IT WONT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES!

Some with bruised egos have been told to grow up and go harder or go home! Lets see if my informer has it right.

cant see green being one of those as he has been right up there in the running and his skills are near the best at the club. its also been mentioned here he prepares himself in a most professional manner.

[DEELIGHTED 16]

This was the thing I most noticed with Green this year, the look of resignation on his face and the poor body language when the opposition took control of a game. There was one game at Ettihad where we were getting overrun and every time the opposition kicked a goal he just wandered back to the wing without a word of encouragement to any of the players.

That was the day he completely lost me as Captain.

having played in a side that was most uncompetitive you can only take floggings so much, I dont care whether its afl or the lowest form of bush footy, its a bloody hard gig. yes they get paid a fair whack of cash but they are all still only human. I do agree though that you can still impose yourself on a game..........unless your midfield doesnt get the ball to you effectivly

[rpfc 27,637]

having played in a side that was most uncompetitive you can only take floggings so much, I dont care whether its afl or the lowest form of bush footy, its a bloody hard gig. yes they get paid a fair whack of cash but they are all still only human. I do agree though that you can still impose yourself on a game..........unless your midfield doesnt get the ball to you effectivly

But RF didn't mention 'imposing himself on a game" - he merely mentioned the easiest of tasks for a leader - encouragement and proper body language.

And it shouldn't matter whether you are 90 points up or down - you should be always encouraging and urging your teammates to look to you for the right attitude.

[DemonOX 8,551]

This isnt good news at all. if true it means that half of the pre season has slipped by and the players are still not putting in as hard as the coaching staff are requiring. I cant see how this is a good report? It shows that Neeld has not been able to extract from the senior players the heart and dedication he feels is required - and its January!

Neeld said in his interview that he knows how it will go and who will be captain but was not saying (telling the media) so I would not be concerned..

[DemonOX 8,551]

I prefer Moloney as captain

second that with Trenners as VC

[Biffen 12,431]

Good article today about the problems last year and the fact that the players were happy with the coach and felt a loyalty to DB.

In battle your leaders may change . Green really blew it in supporting Bailey against the board (the night before186) and Bailey was an amateur in his political machinations against CS.

Who signed for five years in the midst of all surrounding treachery?

Who is our most complete midfielder , with no boozy black marks .

JT

[Chelly 749]

Good article today about the problems last year and the fact that the players were happy with the coach and felt a loyalty to DB.

The players went out and lost by 186 points which is definitely a unique way to display their loyalty to the coach and how happy they were with him.

[furious d 447]

Good article today about the problems last year and the fact that the players were happy with the coach and felt a loyalty to DB.

Where?

[warren dean 193]

Where?

By Jake Niall in todays Age. Someone will find the link. He doesn't really endorse anyone but does compare Trengove to Bartel and says that Grimes or Trengove could be our version of Voss, albeit without the runs on the board that he had at the time of his appointment.