Will anybody come out to watch them play?

[rpfc 27,692]

The NFL is a unique situation

There is typically one club per state. There are only 16 matches with 8 home games

That means a state like Minnesota (Vikings) gets a total of 8 games a season at the Metrodome (60,000 people) for a state the size of Victoria

The tickets naturally are all sold out before the season starts

I think you have to buy a whole season and they are not cheap

Typically social clubs at corporations buy in bulk then employees bid for their turn

Now baseball is a whole different ballpark (pun intended) with their approx 160 games per season

Completely understand.

I am just saying that there is 'tv sport' like the NFL that people actually fill the stands to see.

[daisycutter 28,727]

Completely understand.

I am just saying that there is 'tv sport' like the NFL that people actually fill the stands to see.

Absolutely. US Collegiate sport is the same. Full stands and big TV audience

Haven't studied any figures but with baseball teams playing so many games I'm surprised they seem to get good game attendances. At least they appear to. And. many of these games are midweek too (have to be, to fit in 160 games per team per season)

It's always surprised me why Sydney-siders seem to be so passionate over League but don't attend games

[Carlos Danger 380]

Eels vs Panthers is pretty good. A million times more worth watching than what the GWS/Sydney game will be.

If the NRL was really trying to put a hurt on, they would have gone with Parramatta vs Canterbury.

[hardtack 10,187]

Eels vs Panthers is pretty good. A million times more worth watching than what the GWS/Sydney game will be.

If the NRL was really trying to put a hurt on, they would have gone with Parramatta vs Canterbury.

Yeah, it's a traditional rivalry dating back to the late 70's early 80's, but I would have thought an Eels v Sea Eagles clash would have been a bigger money spinner these days.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think where this opinion of Rugby League being a "TV Sport" comes from those that are interested in attending numerous sporting events. The die-hard RL supporters would say that there is nothing better than seeing the game live, but these folk wouldn't watch an AFL game if it were played on their footpath.

The people that follow various codes, and especially those that attend games live, a majority will say that RL is a TV Sport, especially when they are comparing it to AFL.

I've even heard born-and-bred Queenslanders say that they prefer to watch State of Origin on TV as opposed to being there.

[H_T 2,941]

Anyone who thinks the AFL wouldn't do the same is kidding themselves. In 2031, when the Greater Western Melbourne Ogres (what a mouthful) are playing their first NRL game against the Storm, you can bet that the AFL will schedule a Collingwood-Carlton blockbuster for the same time. In the immortal words of Michael Corleone and Donald Trump, 'It's not personal. It's just business.'

I would have thought if this were the case the AFL would be more inclined to go with a Dogs v Cats game. The Eels and Penrith are out in the GWS vicinity. Much like the Cats and Dogs are west of Melbourne as are most of their supporters.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I've been doing a bit of research in to this, and from what I can see, it's a media push to create controversy, and for what appears to be Vic-based posters on this site, it has worked!

Last year, in the first 5 rounds of the NRL season, there were 2 "blockbusters" involving western suburb teams, and in total, western suburb teams played 11 home games between them, which is 1 fewer than 2012. Sure, the NRL stated that they looked at the schedule of other codes, but as they also said, they are more worried about what they are doing than what anyone else is.

Is it that the NRL are scared, or is it AFLSS?

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I've been doing a bit of research in to this, and from what I can see, it's a media push to create controversy, and for what appears to be Vic-based posters on this site, it has worked!

Last year, in the first 5 rounds of the NRL season, there were 2 "blockbusters" involving western suburb teams, and in total, western suburb teams played 11 home games between them, which is 1 fewer than 2012. Sure, the NRL stated that they looked at the schedule of other codes, but as they also said, they are more worried about what they are doing than what anyone else is.

Is it that the NRL are scared, or is it AFLSS?

all i know is that there will be a lot of free tickets given away to both code supporters AFL & NFL next year and beyond. Crowds shown at games on TV will give the impression of a healthy competition and vindicating the "right" decision.

[Chook 14,702]

I would have thought if this were the case the AFL would be more inclined to go with a Dogs v Cats game. The Eels and Penrith are out in the GWS vicinity. Much like the Cats and Dogs are west of Melbourne as are most of their supporters.

Perhaps, but whoever the teams are, the concept is the same.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I've seen a couple of NRL games and I don't mind it, I reckon it flows pretty quickly. I'd rather watch a good NRL game that watch GW$ and GC, I have absolutely no interest in either of those sides.

That's part of the problem that I see in the future, they will have no support in Melbourne or any other State and their games will be watched by small crowds everywhere. Once the initial novelty phase wears off and the glut of high draft picks move on they will be like a couple of new North Melbourne's with no way of paying their own way and no supporter base of any note. It seems from whay I've read on here that the local Melbourne supporters will be their biggest fan base.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I've seen a couple of NRL games and I don't mind it, I reckon it flows pretty quickly. I'd rather watch a good NRL game that watch GW$ and GC, I have absolutely no interest in either of those sides.

That's part of the problem that I see in the future, they will have no support in Melbourne or any other State and their games will be watched by small crowds everywhere. Once the initial novelty phase wears off and the glut of high draft picks move on they will be like a couple of new North Melbourne's with no way of paying their own way and no supporter base of any note. It seems from whay I've read on here that the local Melbourne supporters will be their biggest fan base.

I reckon you're 50% correct there Robbie. I think the Gold Coast will stay strong-ish, as there will always be (proper) footy tragics living around the South East Qld region that will go to their games. The are only against 1 RL team (Titans), and 1 A-League team (United), in a very heavily populated area.

GWS on the other hand, I'm quite certain they will struggle. Even premierships only last so long in the non-traditional areas such as GWS, just need to look at Port Adelaide.

[beelzebub 22,724]

The AFL isnt scared... they KNOW what they have a s a war chest they know what they are up against. The NRL can only guess and act accordingly. The NRL are and will be playing a reactive role. In real terms its like IGA going to war agaiinst Woolies..... good luck with that !!

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I reckon you're 50% correct there Robbie. I think the Gold Coast will stay strong-ish, as there will always be (proper) footy tragics living around the South East Qld region that will go to their games. The are only against 1 RL team (Titans), and 1 A-League team (United), in a very heavily populated area.

GWS on the other hand, I'm quite certain they will struggle. Even premierships only last so long in the non-traditional areas such as GWS, just need to look at Port Adelaide.

the only people supporting GW$ in 5 years time will be the AFL. They will never admit defeat in this ridiculous venture. The broadcasters will be severley burnt i predict.

[The Chazz 4,077]

The AFL isnt scared... they KNOW what they have a s a war chest they know what they are up against. The NRL can only guess and act accordingly. The NRL are and will be playing a reactive role. In real terms its like IGA going to war agaiinst Woolies..... good luck with that !!

This is my point B59, I think people in here have AFLSS. The NRL aren't scared, are they playing reactive roles? I don't think they are. Their draw for 2012 is very similar to 2011. How can that be seen as reactive?

I'm assuming you're calling the NRL the IGA of the sporting world and the AFL is the Woolies? That's the AFLSS I'm talking about, absolutely ridiculous comment - even for you.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

This is my point B59, I think people in here have AFLSS. The NRL aren't scared, are they playing reactive roles? I don't think they are. Their draw for 2012 is very similar to 2011. How can that be seen as reactive?

I'm assuming you're calling the NRL the IGA of the sporting world and the AFL is the Woolies? That's the AFLSS I'm talking about, absolutely ridiculous comment - even for you.

The AFL have been in Sydney now for over 20 years and they aren't exactly knocking them dead there; NRL is still by far the most popular sport and will always remain that way. In fact it would be interesting to see just exactly what the increase in IGA has been over the years compared to Woolies, so to speak.

Storm down here have a hard core support and it's mainly expat NSW and NZ's, Victorians seem to have an interest purely because they are winning and for the novelty value. If push comes to shove would and AFL supporter down here rather go to a Storm Final or one of their teams home and away games at the G?

[beelzebub 22,724]

This is my point B59, I think people in here have AFLSS. The NRL aren't scared, are they playing reactive roles? I don't think they are. Their draw for 2012 is very similar to 2011. How can that be seen as reactive?

I'm assuming you're calling the NRL the IGA of the sporting world and the AFL is the Woolies? That's the AFLSS I'm talking about, absolutely ridiculous comment - even for you.

The NRL waitied for the AFL to announce their fixture then slected what it considered its best hand to start the season. THATS rective. Did it lead first NO. . Now the NRl is putting a lot of eggs into very few baskets. Threy may well see it backfire after the opening round.

Keep in mind the NRL is a heavily subsidised event. It couldnt stand on its own legs without NEWS ltd. If NEWS ever had to tuck in its head money wise teh NRL would all but stop dead. I often wonder if many who comment on things NSW have ever lived there. If so then the the IGA v Woolies is very appropriate. The ONLY thing the NRL do better is Grand Final entertainement after that its all second fiddle compared to the machine that is the AFL. In terms of real interest the NRL would sit between teh VFL and AFL

It will be a battle royal theres no doubt. Some will suggest a fools folly..

Its reactive of the NRL as they will tailor their game going forward to combat the infidel. The AFL would be laughing at this as already its calling the beat of the music..

The AFL has its own money ...the NRL doesnt. Just how long and how hard Rupert wants to fight will be seen. He may also be preoccupied on other fronts.

Edited November 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The NRL waitied for the AFL to announce their fixture then slected what it considered its best hand to start the season. THATS rective. Did it lead first NO. . Now the NRl is putting a lot of eggs into very few baskets. Threy may well see it backfire after the opening round. Keep in mind the NRL is a heavily subsidised event. It couldnt stand on its own legs without NEWS ltd. If NEWS ever had to tuck in its head money wise teh NRL would all but stop dead. I often wonder if many who comment on things NSW have ever lived there. If so then the the IGA v Woolies is very appropriate. The ONLY thing the NRL do better is Grand Final entertainement after that its all second fiddle compared to the machine that is the AFL. In terms of real interest the NRL would sit between teh VFL and AFL It will be a battle royal theres no doubt. Some will suggest a fools folly.. Its reactive of the NRL as they will tailor their game going forward to combat the infidel. The AFL would be laughing at this as already its calling the beat of the music.. The AFL has its own money ...the NRL doesnt. Just how long and how hard Rupert wants to fight will be seen. He may also be preoccupied on other fronts.

I lived in Sydney for a while but it was a long time ago, and I found that they preferred to participate in sport rather than watch it, they use the beaches and harbour extensively. That's why I doubt two side will hit it off up there they simply don't care to watch, even their own code, at least that's how it used to be.

As I said above it would be interesting to see how much support Sydney Swans have up there, i reckon they would still have as much here as there.

[The Chazz 4,077]

The NRL waitied for the AFL to announce their fixture then slected what it considered its best hand to start the season. THATS rective. Did it lead first NO. . Now the NRl is putting a lot of eggs into very few baskets. Threy may well see it backfire after the opening round.

Keep in mind the NRL is a heavily subsidised event. It couldnt stand on its own legs without NEWS ltd. If NEWS ever had to tuck in its head money wise teh NRL would all but stop dead. I often wonder if many who comment on things NSW have ever lived there. If so then the the IGA v Woolies is very appropriate. The ONLY thing the NRL do better is Grand Final entertainement after that its all second fiddle compared to the machine that is the AFL. In terms of real interest the NRL would sit between teh VFL and AFL

It will be a battle royal theres no doubt. Some will suggest a fools folly..

Its reactive of the NRL as they will tailor their game going forward to combat the infidel. The AFL would be laughing at this as already its calling the beat of the music..

The AFL has its own money ...the NRL doesnt. Just how long and how hard Rupert wants to fight will be seen. He may also be preoccupied on other fronts.

Is this a fact about the NRL being subsidised by News Ltd? I get this quote from the NRL Wikipedia page...

"After several years of preparation and build up, on 14 December 2010 the Australian Rugby League and News Corporation finally agreed upon a constitutional framework paving the way for the establishment of a new and independent commission to govern the sport in Australia."

I'm of the belief that the new TV rights that are to kick off from season 2014, it is expected that these will fetch over $1b for the league. I'd be surprised if it couldn't stand on its own little feet after that cheque is presented.

I laugh at your comment that the only thing the NRL do better is GF pre-match entertainment. Do the words State of Origin mean anything? I think they do that pretty well compared to the AFL's SOO, or in our case International Rules. Also, where does this idea of a floating fixture for the final round of the AFL come from? Ok, they do it so they make it fairer for the teams playing finals, but the NRL has had a floating fixture for years. I think this is smart play by the NRL, and it's potentially something the AFL could utilise more.

Obviously you have lived in NSW, otherwise you wouldn't have played that card that you did. I'm buggered if I know why that makes you so much more qualified to comment on this topic. Perhaps if you had ever lived in Queensland, your opinion of the NRL would be different.

Again, the NRL are not scared at all of the GWS team. Just like they weren't scared of the Gold Coast Suns starting. I think there is more chance Gallop is sitting back pissing himself laughing at the whole GWS experiment than there is him sitting there with no fingernails. The GWS have members, how many of those have been converted from RL? I'd expect minimal. It won't be until around 15 years until we see just how much damage to the NRL brand that GWS has caused, but I'm pretty sure the NRL will still be going strong in the western suburbs.

[rpfc 27,692]

So Gallop has to be either scared and eating his fingernails or ROFL?

He would be concerned as the clubs in the west operate on razor thin margins and they get little help from HQ - Gould whinges about this every sunday...

If GWS has an impact - it will be felt.

[The Chazz 4,077]

So Gallop has to be either scared and eating his fingernails or ROFL?

He would be concerned as the clubs in the west operate on razor thin margins and they get little help from HQ - Gould whinges about this every sunday...

If GWS has an impact - it will be felt.

You had me RPFC until this part.

And IF GWS doesn't have an impact, which will be more likely in the short to medium term, NRL won't have anything to worry about. Put it this way, those western suburb clubs won't go backwards.

I just can't see how GWS will be successful enough in the first 3-7 years to expect to change the sporting landscape in that area. I hope I'm not wrong.

[Tim 3,001]

I lived in Sydney for a while but it was a long time ago, and I found that they preferred to participate in sport rather than watch it, they use the beaches and harbour extensively.

I was there for a while too, and also in Canberra. I used to puzzle about this rationale, as the beaches in the winter were not particularly well patronised, for good reason - water was cold.

I thought their non-watching was due to their major winter sport being carp, compared to Aussie Rules.

[rpfc 27,692]

You had me RPFC until this part.

And IF GWS doesn't have an impact, which will be more likely in the short to medium term, NRL won't have anything to worry about. Put it this way, those western suburb clubs won't go backwards.

I just can't see how GWS will be successful enough in the first 3-7 years to expect to change the sporting landscape in that area. I hope I'm not wrong.

Won't go backwards?

But they need to go forwards to survive.

The Pokies law they are trying to fight tooth-and-nail illustrates my point.

The AFL can set-up funds to pump into PA and NM and us, and there is that need from the NRL clubs - especially those in the west - but they do not put that kind of cash into the clubs.

Once they get their $1bn TV deal and pump that money into the west of sydney it's a catch 22.

They have to put money into their own heartland?

That is not a sign of good health.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Won't go backwards?

But they need to go forwards to survive.

The Pokies law they are trying to fight tooth-and-nail illustrates my point.

The AFL can set-up funds to pump into PA and NM and us, and there is that need from the NRL clubs - especially those in the west - but they do not put that kind of cash into the clubs.

Once they get their $1bn TV deal and pump that money into the west of sydney it's a catch 22.

They have to put money into their own heartland?

That is not a sign of good health.

I'm not sure where the pokies law comes in to it? If you are thinking it's because of the amount of leagues clubs/gaming venues that teh NRL clubs have, and rely on to make an income, I'm pretty sure the AFL clubs have that too. Calrton will most definitely be one club that will take a hit if that were to be the case.

But on one hand, you're saying that because the AFL can pump funds in to PA and North and Us, etc, and that's accepted practice, but if the NRL had to pump money in to the western suburb teams, that's not a sign of good health?

I'm quite sure all NRL clubs will benefit from the increased revenue from the TV rights.

The main point I'm trying to make is that the NRL isn't as f**ked as some people believe, or are trying to make others believe. This thread had a very one-sided opinion, which a lot generated from a weak news article. I questioned it, which is always fun to do on DL!

[hardtack 10,187]

I think the NRL's biggest fear is that if GWS and the Swans start to enjoy on-field success at the same time, then they really ARE going to feel the heat. Sydney (NRL and AFL) supporters are your archetypal "fair weather supporters" as could be witnessed by the crowds the Swans were enjoying at their peak - they could pack any stadium in Sydney, which is something most NRL clubs simply cannot do at the best of times... they even have difficulty in selling out a GF.

If the GWS and Swans get to the point where they're both in finals contention in the same year, then the NRL's crowds are going to be affected, plain and simple. The hard core NRL fans will keep going to their games, but the "fair weather" supporters I was talking about (and there ARE many of them) are just as likely to jump on the bandwagon of any successful team regardless of code... and if it means there's a chance of a team from Sydney putting it up a team from Victoria (or Queensland), then the likelihood of that happening is much much greater.

So of course the NRL wants to nip this in the bud as soon as possible... but I really don't fancy their chances.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think the NRL's biggest fear is that if GWS and the Swans start to enjoy on-field success at the same time, then they really ARE going to feel the heat. Sydney (NRL and AFL) supporters are your archetypal "fair weather supporters" as could be witnessed by the crowds the Swans were enjoying at their peak - they could pack any stadium in Sydney, which is something most NRL clubs simply cannot do at the best of times... they even have difficulty in selling out a GF.

If the GWS and Swans get to the point where they're both in finals contention in the same year, then the NRL's crowds are going to be affected, plain and simple. The hard core NRL fans will keep going to their games, but the "fair weather" supporters I was talking about (and there ARE many of them) are just as likely to jump on the bandwagon of any successful team regardless of code... and if it means there's a chance of a team from Sydney putting it up a team from Victoria (or Queensland), then the likelihood of that happening is much much greater.

So of course the NRL wants to nip this in the bud as soon as possible... but I really don't fancy their chances.

So what do you think the landscape will look like in the next 10 years hardtack? Will we still have a GWS? Will the NRL still have Panthers, Bulldogs, Tigers and Eels? I think we will see all 5 of those teams mentioned playing for the respective codes.

The NRL have 5 years minimum to ensure they continue (not start) to fund specialised programs for the western suburb clubs, ensuring that these clubs remain viable. That said, they will not have a blank cheque for them, as they, like the AFL, are continually wanting to expand, and like the AFL, will financially support (to the tune of an $8m start up) ANY club that moves from their traditional area.

If the AFL are trying to "tak over" this area, they will fail. I don't think that is their goal; it's more about having the brand out their and to share the market place, not dominate it. Just like they are doing at the Gold Coast, and just like they have done in Brisbane and Sydney in the years past.