WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - JACK VINEY

[jumbo returns 6,493]

Hmmmm, 'I don't think anyone on here effing cares', possibly.

Yep, thanks, makes sense.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

True but with Tarrant retiring and the Collingwood midfield already in great nick that trade makes no sense from a Collingwood point of view. Giving up a needed defender for another midfielder? Highly doubt that would happen.

Huge price to pay for Caddy must really rate him

[CRomey 33]

Sorry but can someone explain why we would trade pick 3 instead of 4 for the MD pick? We tell them we're only interested in trading pick 4 and their options are either take it or take the bulldogs offer of pick 5 or something like that, I know which one I'd take. Assuming Viney falls through to the 2nd round we now get a pick 3 kid instead of pick 4. Or am I horribly missing something here? Please let me know.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Sorry but can someone explain why we would trade pick 3 instead of 4 for the MD pick? We tell them we're only interested in trading pick 4 and their options are either take it or take the bulldogs offer of pick 5 or something like that, I know which one I'd take. Assuming Viney falls through to the 2nd round we now get a pick 3 kid instead of pick 4. Or am I horribly missing something here? Please let me know.

Pick 3 is not a compo pick, therefore it is the pick that we will be forced to use if GWS or GC nominate Viney as the compo picks we have CANNOT be used for a F/S. If we trade Pick 3, leaving Picks 4 and 13 it means Viney will have to be taken in the second round no matter who nominates him.

[CRomey 33]

Pick 3 is not a compo pick, therefore it is the pick that we will be forced to use if GWS or GC nominate Viney as the compo picks we have CANNOT be used for a F/S. If we trade Pick 3, leaving Picks 4 and 13 it means Viney will have to be taken in the second round no matter who nominates him.

Ok thanks for clearing that up, I'm assuming that means though that if Viney goes through to the 2nd round anyway we'd be offering pick 4 and not 3?

[rpfc 27,513]

Pick 3 is not a compo pick, therefore it is the pick that we will be forced to use if GWS or GC nominate Viney as the compo picks we have CANNOT be used for a F/S. If we trade Pick 3, leaving Picks 4 and 13 it means Viney will have to be taken in the second round no matter who nominates him.

No, that is not the reason.

And trading away Pick 3 'to avoid using it on Viney' is impossible as F/S bidding is done prior to trade week.

Ok thanks for clearing that up, I'm assuming that means though that if Viney goes through to the 2nd round anyway we'd be offering pick 4 and not 3?

The reason the offer of 3 is there is because the Bulldogs have Pick 5 which is effectively Pick 4 if Viney is taken at 3. So if we are offering Pick 4 to GWS it is equivalent to the Bulldogs' Pick 5.

It is a meaningless parsing by a few of us on here and I still think we would get away with offering Pick 4 once Viney is in the second round.

[Jonesbag 487]

This is what its now like in my head when reading about JV on this site.

http://youtu.be/9gSQg1i_q2g

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

The reason the offer of 3 is there is because the Bulldogs have Pick 5 which is effectively Pick 4 if Viney is taken at 3. So if we are offering Pick 4 to GWS it is equivalent to the Bulldogs' Pick 5.

The logic is flawed. I may be wrong in this, but I am under the impression that it's not up to GWS to decide who they trade the Mini-draft picks to, but rather the picks go to whoever makes the best offer, therefore pick 4 trumps anyone but Gold Coast unless they throw in players.

[rpfc 27,513]

The logic is flawed. I may be wrong in this, but I am under the impression that it's not up to GWS to decide who they trade the Mini-draft picks to, but rather the picks go to whoever makes the best offer, therefore pick 4 trumps anyone but Gold Coast unless they throw in players.

Who decides the 'best offer'?

GWS.

And the MD Trade Deadline is 15 days after F/S bidding. So we might have the situation where the Bullies are more willing to hand over Pick 5 than we are Pick 4.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Who decides the 'best offer'?

GWS.

And the MD Trade Deadline is 15 days after F/S bidding. So we might have the situation where the Bullies are more willing to hand over Pick 5 than we are Pick 4.

Assuming you mean that we've used pick 3 on Viney, I don't see how that changes anything since we still won't have pick three to offer them, and our pick 4 will still beat pick 5.

[rpfc 27,513]

Assuming you mean that we've used pick 3 on Viney, I don't see how that changes anything since we still won't have pick three to offer them, and our pick 4 will still beat pick 5.

Well, that's the conversation GWS would be having.

Agree to take the Bullies Pick 5, bid for Viney and have the 4th 'live' kid OR agree to take our Pick 4 before the MD and take the 4th 'live' kid.

Either way it is the 4th 'live' kid.

[Red and Blue Bloke 20]

With articles popping up everywhere (there is a new one on afl.com.au today), I am confused about us getting Viney.

Simply, who has to commit first? Giants, Suns or Us? What date will we find out? It will be decided before the actual draft, right?

[beelzebub 22,225]

With articles popping up everywhere (there is a new one on afl.com.au today),? I am confused about us getting Viney.

Simply, who has to commit first? Giants, Suns or Us? What date will we find out? It will be decided before the actual draft, right?

we do nothing until another club bids or doesnt . We sit there and shut up Oct 8. Then we know which pick we WILL have to use for Viney which then sets out the rest of or strategy. ( In theory )

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Personally, I think GWS won't nominate and Gold Coast can kiss goodbye any trade with us if they do for mine. If they nominate I think that will indicate we won't be getting Caddy in a way.

[olisik 4,060]

F these new franchises.

First Scully, now Viney....seriously

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

With articles popping up everywhere (there is a new one on afl.com.au today), I am confused about us getting Viney.

Simply, who has to commit first? Giants, Suns or Us? What date will we find out? It will be decided before the actual draft, right?

OK, on October 8th at roughly 10am, the FS bidding will take place.

What happens is that each player nominated will be "Auctioned" off to the clubs, who will be offered the opportunity to bid in draft order (ie GWS, GC, Melb, WB etc).

Once all clubs have been offered a chance to bid on the player, the nominating club (in JV's case, us) will be asked if they wish to match the highest bid.

If they do, they are required to commit their next available pick after the bid to that player.

This pick is now removed from all future transactions. It can't be traded, used to bid on other FS prospects or used to draft another player.

In our case, our great concern is that when bidding starts on Jack Viney, GWS will pass (as they would be risking Whitfield and we'd let them have Jack at pick one in a heartbeat), and then GC will bid pick 2 on him.

This would require us to commit our third pick to Jack, thus preventing us from using it to trade or draft later on or concede and allow GC to have him, in which case their no.2 pick is now off the table in all future transactions.

Our ideal scenario is that GC decide that it's too big a risk and they need to keep their no. 2 pick for the draft (or to trade for Tippett) and Viney goes on to later picks.

In this case, we would certainly see another club put in a token first round bid on him, and we would be forced to commit our second round pick to drafting him. There is virtually no chance that no club would bid a first round pick on him, but in theory if none did and GWS and GC failed to use their second round picks, he could slip further.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Well, that's the conversation GWS would be having.

Agree to take the Bullies Pick 5, bid for Viney and have the 4th 'live' kid OR agree to take our Pick 4 before the MD and take the 4th 'live' kid.

Either way it is the 4th 'live' kid.

They will still have to factor in us not taking Viney so taking that approach is still a risk. And no doubt they will be ideally after our pick 4 plus the doggies pick 5.

It would also be hard for both clubs to argue that such a deal isn't draft tampering.

[beelzebub 22,225]

.....in which case their no.2 pick is now off the table in all future transactions.

?? can you expand abit on that ? cheers

[Brian Wilson 331]

F these new franchises.

First Scully, now Viney....seriously

The fact that you used the word 'franchises' says it all. Are they football clubs or fried chicken restaurants?

[BIG JIM 508]

I'm over all this crap about where we take Viney.

Like Nathan Jones said at the B&F it's time for all players to buy in or buy out. The tone has been set and I think J Viney will buy in and drag this club back to were it belongs.

Pick 3, 4 or 23 - it's not a big deal when you have a young hungry tough kid like this ready to rumble RND 1 2013. 

I can't wait.

Let's worry about pick 4 and 13, not Jack. 

He should be our number 1 pick because his ready and loves the Dees.

[Guest KingDingAling]

Dealing pick 3 to the GC for Caddy and Toy would be a good result.

On proviso they don't bid on Viney.

It makes sense to try make a deal with them somewhere along the line.

I'd be disappointed if we had to use pick 3, it's certainly a situation GC themselves should be taking advantage of and trying to get that pick out of us, they don't gain a hell of a lot in us using that pick in the draft.

[TheoX 1,218]

Dealing pick 3 to the GC for Caddy and Toy would be a good result.

On proviso they don't bid on Viney.

It makes sense to try make a deal with them somewhere along the line.

Id be dissapointed if we had to use pick 3, its certainly a situation GC themselves should be taking advantage of

and trying to get that pick out of us, they don't gain a hell of a lot in us using that pick in the draft.

If F/S happens before trading, how about we just say we'll do that deal and then after they don't bid on Viney, we just don't trade pick 3 to them. It's not like GC or GWS had any morals poaching players is it, and any agreement won't be binding as it would be draft tampering.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Dealing pick 3 to the GC for Caddy and Toy would be a good result.

On proviso they don't bid on Viney.

That would be a disastrous trade! Pick 3 is our ticket to Hogan and our chance to atone for the Darling/Cook drafting fiasco of yesteryear.

You don't deal high picks for any kind of packages.

How about pick 13 for Caddy alone. It's the highest pick they are likely to get for him and considering there is likely to be potential left at #13 they won't lose much.

So we get an AFL ready hard at it inside mid (I hope) who can impact round 1, and a bonus early pick (as viney passed on), and they get the highest pick they could have got for a player who wanted to leave anyway.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Dealing pick 3 to the GC for Caddy and Toy would be a good result.

On proviso they don't bid on Viney.

It makes sense to try make a deal with them somewhere along the line.

I'd be disappointed if we had to use pick 3, it's certainly a situation GC themselves should be taking advantage of and trying to get that pick out of us, they don't gain a hell of a lot in us using that pick in the draft.

In the end it isnt the worst scenario IF the only other option is Viney at 3,

If the only other option is Viney at 3, then this deal is the same as switching Viney and 25 for Viney and caddy and Toy, which could turn out even or better imo.

Better than the Caddy for 13 talk anyway

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

It won't be pick 13 for Caddy, it will be pick #13 for Caddy and a live pick #4