WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - JACK VINEY

[DemonDan... 77]

the problem with your stance is theres no way of absolutely qualifying that. The best you can use is hidsight and actual history in order to assess where they should have ranked.

Again, this year i think its much more clear cut.. {obviously leaving out daniher}

1. whitfield

2. toumpas -or grundy if GCS want a tall

3. grundy

If we get at least one of these players {or Hogan, MD} and JV rd.2 - its a clear win for us.

In my opinion, clear cut.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Daniher and Whitfield are seen as the best two kids in this years draft by a street.. by a f@cking street.

If we take JV ahead of: Whitfield, toumpas, grundy, stringer, vlastin - we do ourselves an injustice and we lose supporters along the way..

its the exact reason why im waiting till after the drafts etc, to sign up for membership.. or not.

The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of many who seem new to the history of drafting. One thing that is certain is that things won't pan out the way you think with regards to who the best players turn out to be.

Here's a snippet from Gibb's draft:

Phantom Draft VII: 2006 Phantom AFL Draft

Matt Burgan

12:00 AM Thu 23 Nov, 2006

ROUND ONE 1 - CARLTON - BRYCE GIBBS

Glenelg, 15 March 1989, 187.4cm, 77.6kg

"In a draft that has been rated by some AFL recruiters as one of the most difficult to predict - due to the outstanding talent pool on offer - one selection that seems certain is the recruitment of Bryce Gibbs to Carlton with the first pick in the 2006 NAB AFL Draft.

The dynamic midfielder is set to join the Blues, having originally been tied to Adelaide via the father/son rule.

Highlights/achievements: Poised, well balanced and skilled playmaker who had outstanding year at Glenelg and with SA U18 team, winning All-Australian honours. Had excellent game against Vic Metro in NAB AFL U18 Championships, gaining 34 possessions, nine loose ball gets and nine clearances. Finished in top three in Glenelg Best and Fairest with his round 17 match against Port Adelaide outstanding, finishing with 33 possessions and kicking six goals."

Now Dan, I have no doubt you'd be having a hernia if your club even considered over-looking anyone else in that year, but a fellow by the name of Joel Selwood went at pick 7 and Gibbs completely underwhelms me as a footballer. He simply doesn't attack the contest hard enough. Would he be your pick one now ? How about the lightly framed Scully that gets pushed off the ball ?

Btw, how much have you seen Viney play ?

The following is an assessment of what talent scouts don't look for in players from a HS article in 2005:

1. Turn the ball over through poor kicking

2. Lack sufficient pace

3. Have off-field issues that will hold them back

4. Don't always keep their head over the ball

5. Don't play a specific position

Jack Viney doesn't have one of those issues, whereas someone like Vlastuin lacks pace and Wines' kicking is OK, but not where you'd like it for a supposed top 10 mid.

And Dingaling, here's an interesting bio from the 2005 draft:

"Nathan Jones (Vic Metro) - 17 years, 178cm, 83kg, Dandenong Stingrays/Mt Eliza

Small inside midfielder with great running capacity, attack on the ball and depth in his kicking. Prolific ball-winner, averaging 20-plus for the three games - including game high 27 possessions in Vic Metro's 27-point win over Western Australia."

My God Ding, Nate is listed as a small mid at only 178cms. Heaven forbid. Btw, Viney's attack on the footy makes Jones look "outside" and he has better pace. Put simply, he'll be a far better player than this year's B&F winner and that's no disrespect to Jones. Viney is just a rung higher.

But wait Ding, here's another:

"Marc Murphy (Vic Metro) - 17 years, 178cm, 75kg, Oakleigh Chargers/Doncaster

Small midfielder/forward who is super competitive and creative and smart around goals. Captained the Vic Metro team successfully, winning best on ground honours against Western Australia in game one and averaged 21 disposals in the championships. AIS-AFL Academy graduate this year. Son of John Murphy, ex-Fitzroy, Swans and Kangaroos star player."

No, it can't be. You mean the number one draft pick from 2005 (coincidentally a son of a gun) and current A grade mid at Carlton was small ?

Jack Viney is unquestionably the best inside mid of the draft. Inside mids are the most valuable mids in the game. And it's a midfielders draft, yet you're concerned by Viney ? Get a clue.

Oh, and one more. Lets look at the best mid from Gibbs' draft - Selwood:

JOEL SELWOOD

Bendigo Pioneers, 26 May 1988, 182.4cm, 80.2kg

"Although a knee injury plagued him in 2006, Selwood is enormously rated by AFL recruiters. He is regarded as one of the premier midfielders in the draft, while his character and leadership qualities have also been highly commended. He has been touted as a future AFL captain by one recruiting manager.

Highlights/achievements: Strong at the ball and skilful midfielder/defender who won All-Australian honours in 2005. Impressive leader at youth level. AIS/AFL Academy Graduate."

Sound familiar to anyone you know ? Leadership and talent are the two most important ingredients in a prospective draftee and Viney has them in bucket loads.

Maybe you guys can start watching and learning about footy rather than guessing at what makes a player, or overrating the hype on others.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I meant U18s, trust you imbecilles to miss the point..

After i opened up on you a couple posts back, your best response is - 'DemoDan, youre a clown'??

How embarrassing for you in front of everyone..

Look mate, you've been owned. You haven't seen him at all.

I'd change your username as this one is done. But let things die down and give it a couple of weeks.

[Devo 104]

He's been training with us. We signed a MOU with him 2 years ago IIRC. The club got special dispensation for him to play with our VFL affiliate this season. You don't do those things for every prospective draftee that you might be into.

He absolutely nails several game-day needs for our club (contested ball warrior, leadership, toughness, good skills) and he aces the character test. I suspect we won't have to worry about him buying into the program either.

You can bet your boots that he's coming to MFC, even if it takes pick 3 to get it done (although it would be nice if he is still on the board come the second round).

[Hannibal 5,814]

Vineys a good little player...

This will be my final point to you on Viney being "small", or "little". The key component with Viney and other contested ball winning maniacs is their weight. It's far more important than their height. Viney is already 3kg heavier than Toby Greene. Viney and Selwood spend their time getting head high tackles due to being first at the footy and being the lowest in the contest. For them weight, skill and attitude is far more important than a couple of cm. I really rate Hrovat in this draft, as well as Kennedy and Viney towers over them.

I hope this helps.

[DemonDan... 77]

The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of many who seem new to the history of drafting.

One thing that is certain is that things won't pan out the way you think with regards to who the best players turn out to be.

Wow. A whole big page of nothing, no meaning, no point - just drivel.. i could barely get through it.

Im glad youre CERTAIN of something, when most of us just voice our opinions..

Anyway, keep reading, youre about to join the other 2 as monumental fools..

Look mate, you've been owned. You haven't seen him at all.

HA HA - another to the list of pathetics..

NOW - The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of you, who seems new to the history of INTELLIGENCE..

You see i actually have the games he played in, recorded off Foxtel and have watched them more than once.. Do your research fool.

HOW DISGRACEFUL that you didnt even know he was playing!! ..AND YET, youre sticking up for him!! HA HA HA.

you absolute nobody..

Actually the more i think about it -THANK YOU- because even i couldnt have made you look as stupid as you do right now!

I Will NEVER let you live this down you absolute pillock..

HEEHEE. love it.

Just a refresh on the situation for all as it stands: here Ben-hur, 1st line paragraph 2, just for you:

Viney played his first game for Vic Metro in the under-18 championships yesterday

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/viney-concedes-dees-not-a-definite-20120629-21899.html#ixzz26McpJw32

[furious d 464]

Wow. A whole big page of nothing, no meaning, no point - just drivel.. i could barely get through it.

Im glad youre CERTAIN of something, when most of us just voice our opinions..

Anyway, keep reading, youre about to join the other 2 as monumental fools..

HA HA - another to the list of pathetics..

NOW - The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of you, who seems new to the history of INTELLIGENCE..

You see i actually have the games he played in, recorded off Foxtel and have watched them more than once.. Do your research fool.

HOW DISGRACEFUL that you didnt even know he was playing!! ..AND YET, youre sticking up for him!! HA HA HA.

you absolute nobody..

Actually the more i think about it -THANK YOU- because even i couldnt have made you look as stupid as you do right now!

I Will NEVER let you live this down you absolute pillock..

HEEHEE. love it.

Just a refresh on the situation for all as it stands: here Ben-hur, 1st line paragraph 2, just for you:

Viney played his first game for Vic Metro in the under-18 championships yesterday

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/viney-concedes-dees-not-a-definite-20120629-21899.html#ixzz26McpJw32

TAC Cup and the U18 championships are 2 different competitions. A draft expert like yourself should know this

[DemonDan... 77]

The key component with Viney and other contested ball winning maniacs is their weight. It's far more important than their height. Viney is already 3kg heavier than Toby Greene. Viney and Selwood spend their time getting head high tackles due to being first at the footy and being the lowest in the contest. For them weight, skill and attitude is far more important than a couple of cm. I really rate Hrovat in this draft, as well as Kennedy and Viney towers over them.

I hope this helps.

How could it help? You have NO idea.

O.Wines is an inside-mid with leadership qualities, -just like Viney- theyre almost the same player, they grew up / trained together.. now viney has 3 kgs on Greene, BUT wines has 3 kgs on viney!

You emphasise on weight being the KEY component, yet ignore the strongest inside mid available!

You would havve to be about the least educated here in regard to the draft.

You have NO idea.

[King Kunta 97]

Wow. A whole big page of nothing, no meaning, no point - just drivel.. i could barely get through it.

Im glad youre CERTAIN of something, when most of us just voice our opinions..

Anyway, keep reading, youre about to join the other 2 as monumental fools..

HA HA - another to the list of pathetics..

NOW - The only reason I'm engaging you is that you're representative of you, who seems new to the history of INTELLIGENCE..

You see i actually have the games he played in, recorded off Foxtel and have watched them more than once.. Do your research fool.

HOW DISGRACEFUL that you didnt even know he was playing!! ..AND YET, youre sticking up for him!! HA HA HA.

you absolute nobody..

Actually the more i think about it -THANK YOU- because even i couldnt have made you look as stupid as you do right now!

I Will NEVER let you live this down you absolute pillock..

HEEHEE. love it.

Just a refresh on the situation for all as it stands: here Ben-hur, 1st line paragraph 2, just for you:

Viney played his first game for Vic Metro in the under-18 championships yesterday

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz26McpJw32

The strangest post I have ever read

[DemonDan... 77]

TAC Cup and the U18 championships are 2 different competitions. A draft expert like yourself should know this

What are all the feeble minds doing out tonight?

DOES IT MATTER WHERE HE PLAYED? -or- HOW He Played? hmm..

I dont know the other numbnuts so well, but you Furious D - i KNOW youre going to need extra time to figure it out.. good luck.

Now dont help him out anyone.. he has to do it by himself..

[DemonDan... 77]

The strangest post I have ever read

So you actually understand it?

Kudos to you!

I do appreciate that you try.. you'll be at a big-boy level in no time.

[rjay 24,928]

From a TAC cup preview this year.

"Oakleigh are always strong, like Calder, it helps having private schools in you catchment handing out footy scholarships like candy. Jack Viney seems to have given TAC a miss this year to play at Casey with the Dees 2s, which will hurt their midfield a bit, but they'll still be up there. Too well-coached and too deep a list not to. To watch: Jaksch, Stewart, Hachem, Prows"

Viney was having his work load managed by Melbourne to play school football at Carey and some games with Casey.

Viney played the championships after coming back from the broken jaw he suffered playing for Casey v Geelong. He wasn't a standout in the 2 games he played but had lost a deal of weight eating from a straw and still acquitted himself well.

He was the standout player in the 2011 TAC GF taking the award for BOG.

We take him with whatever pick is necessary.

[DemonDan... 77]

From a TAC cup preview this year.

"Oakleigh are always strong, like Calder, it helps having private schools in you catchment handing out footy scholarships like candy. Jack Viney seems to have given TAC a miss this year to play at Casey with the Dees 2s, which will hurt their midfield a bit, but they'll still be up there. Too well-coached and too deep a list not to. To watch: Jaksch, Stewart, Hachem, Prows"

Viney was having his work load managed by Melbourne to play school football at Carey and some games with Casey.

Yep, and we established that i was talking about u18s, not TAC.. oh.. about 2 PAGES AGO..

Turn around, look and wave, its already gone past you..

[bing181 9,240]

Just THE PERFECT example of the inadequacy that has become the norm within the MFC and its supporters.

NO.

At pick 3, i want a top 3 player. Period.

At pick 3, you'll get a pick 3 in this year's draft. You won't necessarily get a top 3 player. Here's some recent 3rd places in the Brownlow, they're a pretty good measure of the "top 3 player" that you want and where they come from:

2011: Matthew Boyd. Taken 22 as a Rookie, and Scott Pendlebury. Taken Pick 5

2010: Dane Swan. Taken pick 58

2009: Lenny Hayes. Taken pick 11

2008: Equal between two F/S picks (Richardson and Ablett), Goodes (pick 43) and Franklin (pick 5)

2006 and 2007: Daniel Kerr. Taken pick 18

2005: Nick Del Santo. Taken pick 13

etc. etc. Not a pick 3 amongst them. Not even a pick 1 or 2, and with the exception of Franklin and Pendlebury (2 out of 10), not even a pick in the top 10.

But carry on ...

[Axis of Bob 11,826]

We've established your draft credentials, DemonDan.

You've seen (at most) two videos from when Viney was half fit. You didn't know the difference between the TAC Cup and the Under 18 Championships.

On top of that your posts are barely decipherable. And my reward for cracking the enigma was a torrent of abuse at posters for no reason other than that they disagree with you (or have pointed out you factual errors).

It has not been a good thread for you.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

We got pick #4 and #13.

Then we get forced to use pick #3 on Viney (When he is not worth a top #3 pick by most accounts)

Therefore our pick #4 will be used on the #3 best kid. Resulting in only compensation pick #13 being left for Scully.

Therefore

A. No Scully ordeal and no F/S rule changes = Pick #3 + Scully + Viney

B. Scully ordeal and F/S rule changes = Pick #3 + Pick 13 + Viney + 3rd Round pick

A. Definitely looks better to me hence we got screwed again if Viney dosn't go as a 2nd rounder.

Or you could say we swapped Scully for Viney and we got pick #4 and #13 thrown in.

I'm sure everyone would be happy with that.

Hell- a straight swap would have been more than enough.. throwing in picks 4 and 13 is like champagne showers time on a yacht in Spain.

Depends how you want to look at it init?

[Axis of Bob 11,826]

I'm just happy that I'm here to witness it before all of his posts get deleted.

I think there's a lesson here for all the kids.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,220]

If Scully still played for us our only pick would be pick 3.

And we'd still have to use that on Viney.

[rjay 24,928]

Yep, and we established that i was talking about u18s, not TAC.. oh.. about 2 PAGES AGO..

Turn around, look and wave, its already gone past you..

Who said I was talking to you, you've already established that you have no idea? I'm making a point that Viney is in a similar position to Joel Selwood in his draft year, both carrying injury both hard inside players and Viney would be a major mistake like Joel was for 6 other clubs if we don't draft him.

[olisik 4,060]

Question - Is Viney invited to the draft combine? I cant recall seeing his name on the list

If he isnt then no way he would/should go at 2. He has had a quiet year compared to the other potential top 5s.

[rjay 24,928]

Question - Is Viney invited to the draft combine? I cant recall seeing his name on the list

If he isnt then no way he would/should go at 2. He has had a quiet year compared to the other potential top 5s.

Yeah, he is http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143899/default.aspx

[Hannibal 5,814]

Hi Dan, I hope you slept well.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Wow. A whole big page of nothing, no meaning, no point - just drivel.. i could barely get through it."

Sorry you found it hard going, Dan. My point was that those that are often touted as being the cut and dried number one don't always end up the best player. I'd argue that they're usually not. Whitfield may be a gun, but I'd be surprised if he ends up the best player from his draft.

Also, I was trying to make the point to Dingaling that a former number one in Murphy, who is a gun, was listed as the same height as Viney, so he shouldn't concern himself too much whether a player is 178, 180, or 182, because as an inside mid your talent, aggression and core strength are the key factors. I hope this helps.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You see i actually have the games he played in, recorded off Foxtel and have watched them more than once.. Do your research fool."

I see. As others have noted, the under 18 championships is not the TAC, which you initially said. Viney played in only 2 championship games and his playing time was limited as he was coming off a broken jaw and 6 weeks out of the game. I thought he played well when he was on. I too have the games recorded and have watched more than once, but it appears our interpretations of his performance differ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"HOW DISGRACEFUL that you didnt even know he was playing!! ..AND YET, youre sticking up for him!! HA HA HA.

you absolute nobody.."

As stated, I have the games recorded and watched him live at the time. I didn't make it to the end of your post the first time Dan, so wasn't aware that you initially incorrectly asserted you'd been watching him play in the TAC Cup. It was only after other posters highlighted your comical error that it was brought to my attention. And this was after I had already responded to your burblings.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I Will NEVER let you live this down you absolute pillock..

HEEHEE. love it."

"Viney played his first game for Vic Metro in the under-18 championships yesterday

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz26McpJw32"

Yes, thanks Dan. I plan on watching the games again on IQ over the weekend.

[olisik 4,060]

Yeah, he is http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143899/default.aspx

Damn

I guess the MFC and GC will both wait and see how he goes in the Draft Combine before making decisions in that case. Other things ilke talks to Caddy, Wellingham ect may influence how we play this due to team balance ect.

I really think it would be stupid of GC to draft a kid from Vic though if he is not rated top 2 and if he refuses to be interviewed by GC

[nutbean 8,838]

This is one of the worst posts I have ever seen

Your logic is this -

because Ablett and Watson were taken in the 40's 10 years ago (completely insignificant to whats happening in 2012, but thats another story), the Demons should let Viney go to Gold Coast because we arent going to get him with a 2nd rounder.

And made double worse as the obvious has not been spelt out. Why is 10 years ago insignificant to now ? Ablett and Watson were used as examples of us being bent over because they were picks in the 40's. Prior to 2007 when these two were taken under the father-son rule the rule was completely different. The reason that Ablett and Watson were taken in the 40's is you only had to give up a 3rd round draft choice to secure a father son.

[Hannibal 5,814]

How could it help? You have NO idea.

O.Wines is an inside-mid with leadership qualities, -just like Viney- theyre almost the same player, they grew up / trained together.. now viney has 3 kgs on Greene, BUT wines has 3 kgs on viney!

You emphasise on weight being the KEY component, yet ignore the strongest inside mid available!

"O.Wines is an inside-mid with leadership qualities, -just like Viney- theyre almost the same player, they grew up / trained together.. now viney has 3 kgs on Greene, BUT wines has 3 kgs on viney!"

Viney is a better inside mid than Wines, Dan. Viney is quicker, has a better sidestep, is more aggressive, more manic at the contest, and is a more reliable kick over 30-40 metres. Viney doesn't have great penetration in his kicking, but he's very accurate over a shorter distance. Anyone who has watched a bit of Wines and researched him knows that his kicking is little better than average and lets him down on occasions.

And you're taking my discussion on weight out of context. Nothing is so absurdly absolute. If one player weighs a kilo more it doesn't make him a better player and no such assertion was made. My point was that if a player is a reasonable height, such as 178cm, then his natural core strength and bulk, is more important to his craft than 2cm in height. Gysberts is an inside mid and 189cm, but his natural core strength is no where near Viney's. Viney's core and bulk, not to mention break away pace, is far more of an advantage than Gyseberts centimetres. Are you reading Dingaling ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

"You emphasise on weight being the KEY component, yet ignore the strongest inside mid available!"

The strongest, smartest, most competitive, and best inside mid available is Viney. The weight discussion I've already addressed.