Rock Bottom

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If, as this poster mistakenly believes, Bailey said he could get us into the finals he probably would have kept Godfrey and Ward as seasoned pros.

Is this a joke?

[Jaded No More 68,600]

Rock bottom is being on the bottom of the ladder with an aging list of hacks and has beens. Refer Melbourne circa 2007.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

And Fergus Watts was never on our list.

Must be confusing him with Ferguson is someone on wikipedia.

No, to me it looked as though dandeeman was confusing Fergus Watts with Ferguson, but Nasher pointed out another Ferguson played for St Kilda so that's where the confusion may have come from.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

No, to me it looked as though dandeeman was confusing Fergus Watts with Ferguson, but Nasher pointed out another Ferguson played for St Kilda so that's where the confusion may have come from.

Yeah my bad.

[Demon Stalwart 255]

Melodrama.

A one word Put down

The term melodrama refers to a dramatic work which exaggerates plot and characters in order to appeal to the emotions.

.

A "very" in depth anaylsis of the members concerns

In Response to your answer I offer

Melodramatic

Another one word put down

The term melodramatic means having the excitement and emotional appeal of melodrama

A more acurate response to yours

[P-man 13,366]

The saints were great defensively in the last half of the 4th Q. We had guys trying to run into space but the stopped it and pinned us back. We tried all day today and there is no excise except we were just NOT GOOD ENOUGH, simple.

Perhaps you were at the game and got a better view, but from watching on tv I saw very little running into space. In fact the almost complete lack of movement up forward and lack of targets is what resulted in our players looking like stunned mullets with the ball in their hands, resulting in the Saints being able to appear as though the old "saints footy" had made its momentous return. Our inability to get it out of our back half looked to be as much our doing as theirs.

Edited May 22, 2011 by P_Man

[Little Goffy 14,115]

Melodrama.

Tick.

We did, after all, have seven of our best 22 out. Oddly enough, with an average games experience of 39. Only 1 (Jamar) had more than 100 games experience.

Trengove, Scully, Grimes, Jamar, Garland, Wonaeamirri, Bail. We also lost Tapscott early.

Thinking it through, we were out there playing mostly with the team we had BEFORE we started the rebuild. In partcular, Gysberts was the only person we had out there from our 2009 superdraft. Meanwhile, Green was ordinary and Davey was poor.

'The future' wasn't really on show on saturday, so the past (St Kilda) got a look in.

But we're still in a slump, and that s%$@s me.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I am not going to enter into the personal epithets, but I would like to express an opinion. I have no doubt that Dean Bailey is a great bloke and his forte is developing young footballers. It is also amply evident that he inherited a terrible list from Neale Daniher, who thought he might have pinched a flag by topping up with a few very questionable hacks and has beens.

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

Under the circumstances, the youth, the re-build which was absolutely necessary and our on-going injuries, I am enough of a realist to accept the inevitable losses that we suffer, on our journey upwards. As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

[beelzebub 23,240]

Bit early for rock bottom. Give it another 3-4 weeks

[Demon17 5,102]

Our kids are getting there.

It's the Daniher leftovers that are not doing much...

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I am not going to enter into the personal epithets, but I would like to express an opinion. I have no doubt that Dean Bailey is a great bloke and his forte is developing young footballers. It is also amply evident that he inherited a terrible list from Neale Daniher, who thought he might have pinched a flag by topping up with a few very questionable hacks and has beens.

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

Under the circumstances, the youth, the re-build which was absolutely necessary and our on-going injuries, I am enough of a realist to accept the inevitable losses that we suffer, on our journey upwards. As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

It's a good and measured post and a better question. The great teams are borne out of a demand of accountabilty to each other. I look forward to seeing the response of the club and the players in question.

What is apparent is that three players, Moloney, Jones and Chip are intent on showing the young guys how to commit. Regardless of any official leadership positions these guys are taking the responsibility upon themselves.

[old dee 23,524]

I am not going to enter into the personal epithets, but I would like to express an opinion. I have no doubt that Dean Bailey is a great bloke and his forte is developing young footballers. It is also amply evident that he inherited a terrible list from Neale Daniher, who thought he might have pinched a flag by topping up with a few very questionable hacks and has beens.

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

Under the circumstances, the youth, the re-build which was absolutely necessary and our on-going injuries, I am enough of a realist to accept the inevitable losses that we suffer, on our journey upwards. As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

You are making it all too hard

It is much more simple. We just don't have enough good players.

And A game plan they are not capable of delivering.

End of the story for me.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

You are making it all too hard

It is much more simple. We just don't have enough good players.

And A game plan they are not capable of delivering.

End of the story for me.

What? The concepts of team discipline, commitment and work ethic are "too hard"?

As for the game plan, we will never do any good by trying to replicate a circa 2008 Hawthorn run off the half back line, which has long since been sussed out by other club and put to bed. What is simple is that style of play is finished.

Edited May 22, 2011 by iv'a worn smith

[Samsara 65]

When Green goaled against Adelaide a few weeks back and grabbed at his jumper as he looked to the crown...we need that sort of passion week in, week out by 22 players on the field.

[therealist 0]

Based on this horrible post, you should put the phone down & stick to listening.

NFI.

Artie Bucco was my least favourite Sopranos character - always a loser - apt tag methinks

[old dee 23,524]

What? The concepts of team discipline, commitment and work ethic are "too hard"?

As for the game plan, we will never do any good by trying to replicate a circa 2008 Hawthorn run off the half back line, which has long since been sussed out by other club and put to bed. What is simple is that style of play is finished.

If you do not have the required skills and ability no amount of Team discipline, commitment and work ethic is going to make up for your lack of ability.

I agree with you re the game plan, but it is made worse by our lack of ability.

[therealist 0]

The only rubbish is this post and the effort of our 'senior' players.

You have got to stop looking sideways at what other clubs are doing in that particular moment. The Tigers are developing, so are we, but both clubs will not play finals in 2011 nor be a chance of a flag in 2011. So who gives a frack?

I'm sorry, is it wrong to look a other clubs and what they have done or are doing to achieve success and win games of footy? Is it feasible that we would be a better team under a harder coach like Hardwick, or is the Bailey style exactly what our players need right now? Are our senior players not responding to him, or are they past it? I dunno mate, who does, but forgive me, I do give a frack. If you are happy to sit back and watch a potentially decent era for our club go by, then soak it up pal, coz I aint copping it and right now the buck stops at Bailey.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

If you do not have the required skills and ability no amount of Team discipline, commitment and work ethic is going to make up for your lack of ability.

I agree with you re the game plan, but it is made worse by our lack of ability.

No question about that, but these are the things that make up the very fabric of successful clubs. As I said, under the circumstances, I can and must accept the losses, but the club needs to change it's culture and we need to find the person/s who have the skills to do it.

[jackaub 1,402]

From what I know Bailey didn't give a glowing appraisal of our list. Hence the culling that occurred and the corresponding tanking.

But I do remember feeling uncomfortable when we started this process. Something about waving the white flag and bringing kids into a culture of losing worries me...

But my personal opinion is coaches ingrain their football philosophy on their players. Roos, Malthouse, and Lyon seem to get the most out of their lists. There’s even early signs Hardwick is holding players accountable.

We have a young list and I never expected finals this year, but I did expect us to be in games for longer. What does Bailey and the players who play for him stand for? I’m not saying nothing, I just don’t know what yet.

A problem of course is Richmond are almost as young as we are

[rpfc 28,070]

I'm sorry, is it wrong to look a other clubs and what they have done or are doing to achieve success and win games of footy? Is it feasible that we would be a better team under a harder coach like Hardwick, or is the Bailey style exactly what our players need right now? Are our senior players not responding to him, or are they past it? I dunno mate, who does, but forgive me, I do give a frack. If you are happy to sit back and watch a potentially decent era for our club go by, then soak it up pal, coz I aint copping it and right now the buck stops at Bailey.

(groan)

Yeah, that's exactly what I am doing...

[censored] hell.

[Roost It 1,434]

Not until the likes of Trengove, Scully, Grimes, Frawley and Watts are leading this club will we have any chance of success. The time to change is at the end of this year. Offer Davey up for trade, Retire/move on Newton, Macdonald, Warnock, Bate, McNamara, Dunn and anyone else who isn't prepared to work hard or isn't good enough. Please don't continue to carry duds as we have always done. Refresh and trade to keep the list vibrant and prevent us from becoming stale.

[therealist 0]

(groan)

Yeah, that's exactly what I am doing...

[censored] hell.

Hope you're tweeting this stuff mate, your work is gold

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Artie Bucco was my least favourite Sopranos character - always a loser - apt tag methinks

He was also a chef.

And an obscure periphery character in a story much greater than his own.

I guess maybe I should have just selected an ironic name for demonland... much like yourself.

Doesn't change the fact that your posts in this thread have NFI.

[Deeflated 0]

I am not going to enter into the personal epithets, but I would like to express an opinion. I have no doubt that Dean Bailey is a great bloke and his forte is developing young footballers. It is also amply evident that he inherited a terrible list from Neale Daniher, who thought he might have pinched a flag by topping up with a few very questionable hacks and has beens.

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

Under the circumstances, the youth, the re-build which was absolutely necessary and our on-going injuries, I am enough of a realist to accept the inevitable losses that we suffer, on our journey upwards. As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

Agree 100%. I have realistic expectations this year, and even though our draw is favourable we'd have needed EVERYTHING to go our way to make finals. Now that injuries are putting that out of the equation I want something far more important than finals, the ability to fight!

We roll over far too easily, injuries aren't an excuse for this. It may be the reason you don't win, but it shouldn't be the reason you give up....

[old dee 23,524]

It's a new episode of melodrama every week.

I'll be staggered if anything tops the West Coast loss.

It may be as close as Friday night and at best Queens birthday.

Get used to the idea we are crap at present.

With injuries and suspensions we are a bottom 5 side

In a differnt league to Carlton and the pies.

The light is a train!