Jamar Injured and out for a month

[Nasher 33,607]

Can't go in without a first ruck while a 208cm behemoth runs around for Casey.

+1

Doesn't matter how "unready" he is. If he's the only specialist ruck available and fully fit, then we've got no choice. Plan B (Spencer) and Plan C (The Experience) have been scratched, Plan D (Campbell) is not yet fit enough; so we move to Plan E. Combining two part timers should be Plan Z.

Golden opportunity to give him a taster if nothing else.

[jackaub 1,402]

Gawn Not ready. Martin and Newton will come in to cover for Jamar. Martin also as a defensive cover as Roos will go tall.

Is Fitzpatrick injured as well?

[Robbie57 2,001]

Is Fitzpatrick injured as well?

according to match report : yes.

[daisycutter 29,296]

i don't think Gawn is ready for this level yet. he has to play casey seniors and play well enough on a consistent basis first, particularly as Newton and perhapds martin are available and have experience. now is not the time to introduce a green Gawn.

I think he has only played one game (last one) in the Scorps 2nds this year - the rest in the seniors

[daisycutter 29,296]

Can those with the knowledge let us know who we can actually pick for the team.

My recollection is that a rookie elevation requires a long term injury.

We only have two LTI's Grimes and Spencer, so can we elevate 2 rookies?

The rookies who are possible picks in the current climate are Juice, Campbell and Evans.

If so and given a knee may take longer than 4 weeks I'd go with the experienced ruckman in the first instance (campbell)and the mature forward (Juice).

Anyway this falls will require some careful thought by the selectors.

Robbie, its been mentioned ad nauseum on this board that Juice was elevated at start of season (because of no 2nd veteran rule)

[Jaded No More 67,612]

+1

Doesn't matter how "unready" he is. If he's the only specialist ruck available and fully fit, then we've got no choice. Plan B (Spencer) and Plan C (The Experience) have been scratched, Plan D (Campbell) is not yet fit enough; so we move to Plan E. Combining two part timers should be Plan Z.

Golden opportunity to give him a taster if nothing else.

Agreed.

How could Gawn be any worse than Dunn/Newton combo?

He is a specialist ruck and as raw as he is, he is the only player currently able to actually compete in the ruck for a whole match without giving away size and free kicks.

When a door closes and you can't open a window, crawl out the kitty door.

[Robbie57 2,001]

Robbie, its been mentioned ad nauseum on this board that Juice was elevated at start of season (because of no 2nd veteran rule)

My apologies, getting old.

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

The acting football operations manager was on SEN this morning and said the extent of Jamar's layoff was still to be decided.

I hate all this quiet and waiting. I hope to hell its not going to be more than 4 weeks.

[The Big Ticket 94]

I think it'd be a bit negligent of us to play Gawn so soon.

[daisycutter 29,296]

My apologies, getting old.

I know the feeling only too well B)

Likely candidates for elevation are Evans, Nicholson and Campbell with Evans most likely first IMO

[Guest Artie Bucco]

I think it'd be a bit negligent of us to play Gawn so soon.

Based on what?

Your expertise as an AFL ruck coach, a physical development expert, or as sports psychogist?

If the club deems it appropriate, I know that I don't have the background to call their judgment into question.

(goes for most things discussed on this forum, I know, but rarely are they accused of being negligent)

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think it'd be a bit negligent of us to play Gawn so soon.

Totally disagree.

I'd be playing Gawn as centre ruck, and as he is a bit raw, get him to drop back and play loose man while Dunn plays the Goodes/Nik Nat role of Utility/Ruck Rover. Gawn will help our defenders who will be playing against a fairly tall forward line.

Worse case would be that we have to sub Gawn off mid 3rd Quarter.

I continue to say it - Carlton player Kreuzer virtually from day one; where is this rule about giving young ruckmen x amount of years to develop in the reserves? At Casey, he has been playing against men, in the AFL, he will be playing against men. We drafted him to play ruck (albeit in a couple of years), we have no other designate ruckmen available, his time has come.

On the other hand, any team that plays against Freo in effect go in with a weaker ruck division, yet Freo don't win every game.

This week's events could be a blessing in disguise for the Club. We had to lift last week and did, this week we are basically expected to lose becuase of injuries/suspension to our key players. It's another week for players to make a name for themselves.

[Sideshow Bob 2,229]

Just to throw a spanner in the works of the wrist slashing that is going on....

It is possible that Jamar, the big Russian, may actually line up this week. His PCL is torn by the reports - as far as knee mechanics go - it isn't required to function well. So, if the doc's and physios can get the swelling out of the knee and have him pain free he can play. The problems lie in how well his muscles keep him stable, Rush has some pretty bloody big leg muscles which may not need too much in the way of extra training and proprioceptive input. There is a chance he won't miss any games. I think i recall Goodesy not miss any when he ruptured his PCL, however they moved him out of the ruck and onto the wing. This may be a good reason as why he isn't on the injury list.

Just some thinking music for all.....

[Nasher 33,607]

I continue to say it - Carlton player Kreuzer virtually from day one; where is this rule about giving young ruckmen x amount of years to develop in the reserves? At Casey, he has been playing against men, in the AFL, he will be playing against men. We drafted him to play ruck (albeit in a couple of years), we have no other designate ruckmen available, his time has come.

Kreuzer's an exceptional circumstance because he seemed to have developed his full suite of coordination and superior fitness already, which is generally the big question over the very large blokes. Josh Fraser and Jeff White were similar. I agree with the general gist of what you're saying though.

Raw or not, Gawn has been playing in the ruck for all of his sporting life. He'll probably struggle around the ground for fitness and whatnot, but there's one thing he should be able to do is contest physically in the ruck contests for a large portion of the game. And as you said Billy, if worst comes to worst he can be subbed off; though that would leave us in the position of having Dunn as the primary ruck which is a bit scary.

The other more obvious thing that Gawn has over the others is a shirtload of height. He's 15cm taller than Newton and 16 taller than Dunn. Anyone ever stood next to someone 16cm taller than them? That is a mega difference, and I believe would just about cancel out any of the other advantages Newton or Dunn have on its own.

[rpfc 28,045]

Difficult to go from Casey seconds to AFL in a week.

The safer option is to go for Martin and Dunn. Assuming Martin is fit.

We will see.

[Nasher 33,607]

Difficult to go from Casey seconds to AFL in a week.

The safer option is to go for Martin and Dunn. Assuming Martin is fit.

We will see.

My posts, of course, have assumed Martin is not fit. If The Experience is fit then it's a no-brainer, and much less interesting to talk about.

[Jaded No More 67,612]

Just to throw a spanner in the works of the wrist slashing that is going on....

It is possible that Jamar, the big Russian, may actually line up this week. His PCL is torn by the reports - as far as knee mechanics go - it isn't required to function well. So, if the doc's and physios can get the swelling out of the knee and have him pain free he can play. The problems lie in how well his muscles keep him stable, Rush has some pretty bloody big leg muscles which may not need too much in the way of extra training and proprioceptive input. There is a chance he won't miss any games. I think i recall Goodesy not miss any when he ruptured his PCL, however they moved him out of the ruck and onto the wing. This may be a good reason as why he isn't on the injury list.

Just some thinking music for all.....

Is that risky?

Does it increase his chances of sustaining a more serious knee injury?

[The Chazz 4,077]

I am, of course, assuming Martin is not fit. If The Experience is fit then it's a no-brainer.

I too am assuming Martin isn't going to play. I think that Newton will get a call up regardless - has been on the cusp for a few weeks now.

Just wondering if we can get Juice and Gawn rotating between Full Forward & Ruck, then have Warnock ruck in defense?

We all have our own theories, and some will call for player A to play a role, while others will call for player B to do it differently. The one thing I am really looking forward to the most is how Dean Bailey will respond. People on here whinge about how he doesn't make changes during a game, well folks, sit back and watch this Saturday because it's going to show what his decision making is like.

I'll call it now - 3 wins out of our next 4 games will secure Bailey's future for the next 2 years.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Rather than the actual players in the ruck (besides seeing Gawn up close), I'm excited to see how our mids respond to not having a dominant ruck presence.

If we get dominated in the ruck, can they find a way to shark the opposition ruckman's taps and still remain competitive at clearances?

If not, can they still manage to apply the same pressure we saw against the crows and still force turnovers and remain competitive?

It's a test, and it will be bloody hard for them, but I relish being in this position.

[Sideshow Bob 2,229]

Is that risky?

Does it increase his chances of sustaining a more serious knee injury?

depending on MRI reports No. The PCL is injured by shin to shin contact at centre bounces. If he has a month off to train his proprioception he still won't have the PCL. No less risky than returning to play in a month or a year or ever. Just dependent on muscle control, swelling and pain. If there is another injury underlying things as well ie secondary meniscal tear then that would need either healing time or a clean up scope.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Difficult to go from Casey seconds to AFL in a week.

The safer option is to go for Martin and Dunn. Assuming Martin is fit.

We will see.

Gawn played Casey 1s the week before and acquitted himself well, but was forced into the 2s when Martin was dropped down to Casey.

Before last weekend I was thinking to myself that it was a shame we had "too many" ruckmen, because it meant Gawn had to go back and play against opposition where he might not gain any benefit in terms of development.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Gawn played Casey 1s the week before and acquitted himself well, but was forced into the 2s when Martin was dropped down to Casey.

Before last weekend I was thinking to myself that it was a shame we had "too many" ruckmen, because it meant Gawn had to go back and play against opposition where he might not gain any benefit in terms of development.

The Player Review from Casey's games is now up on the MFC home page.

The reason for Gawn dropping down to the Casey reserves was due to the fact that, as some have stated on here, they wanted him to play a full game rather than come on. As a result, he was one of the best (against average opposition I'm assuming).

Does this mean the Club think that he's ready for a greater workload? Ironic how they wanted both Spencer and Gawn to play more football this week, then all of a sudden, our number 1 ruck goes down (and so did Spencer). Do they think the Gawn may be closer than what some in here are thinking, which with the recent chain of events, might see him take on the caretaker number 1 ruck position this week?

[Junior84 1]

Stefan Martin trained yesterday and looked fine. He did the whole session without a glitch.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Stefan Martin trained yesterday and looked fine. He did the whole session without a glitch.

Were you there? I'll ask it (at the risk of being shot down!)...did Jamar train?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

Just to throw a spanner in the works of the wrist slashing that is going on....

It is possible that Jamar, the big Russian, may actually line up this week. His PCL is torn by the reports - as far as knee mechanics go - it isn't required to function well. So, if the doc's and physios can get the swelling out of the knee and have him pain free he can play. The problems lie in how well his muscles keep him stable, Rush has some pretty bloody big leg muscles which may not need too much in the way of extra training and proprioceptive input. There is a chance he won't miss any games. I think i recall Goodesy not miss any when he ruptured his PCL, however they moved him out of the ruck and onto the wing. This may be a good reason as why he isn't on the injury list.

Just some thinking music for all.....

I'm not too proud or embarrassed to ask...what does "proprioceptive input" mean?