Vent your Spleen

[pitchfork 181]

Sorry to wreck/raise the mood...but I reckon we'll get there. Our "bottom 10" weren't good enough last night but things may begin to look very different sooner rather than later. "Game plans" are much lauded when a team is winning and maligned whenever they lose but it's funny how, with a few notable exceptions, when a team has its best 21 (+1) playing, things seem to 'click' (the Geelong/Collingwood final and our 2000 GF being notable exceptions!).

When the team's most skilled players are the ones taking the risks, suddenly things seem less risky. When two of those risks happen consecutively, it doesn't matter who is at the end of the line, you're going to get a good scoring shot. It's true that we're stuffed if Moloney and Jones and others remain in our top 10, but they're both pretty bloody useful bottom 10 players! The FD has to work its arse off trying to get the closest thing to what they see as our premiership team on the track so that we can start getting games into the team. And more and more, that 'premiership team' more closely resembles our 'current best 21 (+1)'. We will have next to no idea until 8 or so rounds in this year. If half of the young guys we keep on talking up can make some kind of impact, then we'll know we're on the way. If things are going well enough that the 'one-percenters' begin snowballing, as players begin trusting the efforts and skills of one-another, we'll know we're on the way. The FD may have to be a bit brave though - there are players (like Bail) who will never perform at any level below AFL but, with a bit of trust, could become very handy players. If we see someone like Blease as pace out of the backline, we've got to give him a go and see if he fits in. If Gys is going to be part of our premiership midfield, get him in sooner rather than later. We've got to get some hard work at AFL level into and some mud on to the players we've recruited for their polish. The players that are there just for grunt will slot into and out the team, to fill that bottom 10. Those guys won't suffer too much at Casey. But we shouldn't let the players with the best potential players atrophy at Casey.

Hird's gameplan will look like a trainwreck when a bigger and stronger team lays a few tackles/big bumps on young runners. They won't be able to take off without looking once a couple end up on their backs. Should we have taken that approach last night? Well, a few tackles would have been nice but if any player missed round 1 for any reason, it wouldn't have been worth it.

So, my call is: no crisis. For many reasons, our team this year should be better than the one which played last year's premiers twice, losing by a total of 1 point.

[Keyser Söze 0]

...

I don't think Bailey had the team prepared for what to expect and was outcoached IMO.

Overall IMO a lazy performance from us but a very long way to go yet.

Maybe because no one knows what to expect from Hird and his gameplan yet..?

The whole AFL is now building an idea of what he plans to do.

It's not very often you coach against the unknown.

Far too critical. It's like we just lost to Freo in 2010!

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Maybe because no one knows what to expect from Hird and his gameplan yet..?

The whole AFL is now building an idea of what he plans to do.

It's not very often you coach against the unknown.

Far too critical. It's like we just lost to Freo in 2010!

Disagree. We were outcoached. Don't forget they had inside knowledge on us. Bailey should have expected that. I imagine Sean Welman had something to offer. The novelty of the unknown Hird gameplan will disappear soon. I see this experience as something like a vaccine against a disease. Better be exposed to a small infection now so as to build immunity against the full blown sickness later on.

Edited February 24, 2011 by america de cali

[Keyser Söze 0]

- Warnock played with flat feet tonight.

He'll be back at Casey pretty quick if he keeps that up.

Backline depth at best.

- Bartram's inability to pick an option or read the play kills momentum.

His kicking isn't the issue, it is choosing the option.

He may retain possession by kicking sideways in the backline, but it destroys any drive and let's the opposition set up to hem us in.

When he does choose to take the game on and run, he often reaches a point where he needs to choose a new option & still causes issues.

A pure tagger (who plays in the BP pocket so we don't have him getting the ball in his hands as much as if he were in the midfield).

- Strauss has some way to go, but seems to be progressing.

He took a nice mark & his confidence seems to be building.

- Watts does look to change his mind and find a better option sometimes.

I attribute this a bit to his basketball mentality. I've done the same thing in the past.

Having also played the point, I can understand the thought process.

It's something the will iron out of this 19 year old kid.

- Maric looked really good in pieces. He showed off his Mark LeCras-like kicking ability that we've been waiting to see.

He panics less now, is prepared to take a hit and tried to find the right option.

He's still a little jittery with the ball and I think he'll relax & trust his instincts as he gets more game time into him at AFL level.

Overall happy with his performance.

- A lot of errors in disposal were made when we were struggling to find clear options further afield under intense pressure.

Once we have learnt how Hird plans to setup on gameday, we can implement ways to counter that.

Last night we were playing blind.

- the senior blokes treated this like what it was; a NAB Cup match.

I'd be a bit worried if they came out treating it like a preliminary final.

Getting through unscathed is a big tick.

- Jones played his first match.

He receives some lenience, as they all should do, being the first proper practice match they've played this preseason.

Youth is not an excuse for them. They are AFL players and should be out there giving their all.

Youth is a cause for understanding from us, the supporters.

Be realistic, maintain an even keel and this ride will be a lot more enjoyable.

We are not the finished article, in spite of what some would like to believe.

We are a work in progress and even though we have kids with great ability to come into the team (Scully, McKenzie, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease et al) they are all lacking in a decent amount of experience. This will mean a learning curve and there will be times when these guys are weak links.

Be prepared for mistakes and frustrating losses.

We are a work in progress.

[H_T 3,047]

Yeah, Rivers, Grimes, Maric and Jurrah were in our best, IMO.

Rivers & Maric for me. Grimes made some blunders by foot at times and Jurrah went missing at times and appeared 'apprehensive and not willing' when he could have/should have. Granted, his goals and marking and approach in the second half were good.

My biggest fears about our team were on show tonight.

We don't win enough clean ball from clearances.

We have some serious liabilities with ball in hand in our backline.

We are not as good as what we are pumped up to be.

I agree, but relieved it's NAB Cup. They need to review parts of this game for individual improvement. There were many examples of weaknesses exposed IMO.

Maybe harsh on Rivers but....

I thought you were. Rivers at times can be an easy scapegoat for some. I'd give him best. He appeared more sure of himself than any other down back. And his kicking was better than anyone's down back last night.

Your two points are exactly why I came on here to post. We were smashed in the clearances and everytime we got first touch we second grabbed it or tried to break 5 tackles (Hello Mr Moloney).

Mr Moloney and sometimes Mr Sylvia re; BREAKING TACKLES.

We cannot play Warnock and Rivers on the ground at the same time.

Just Rivers then. We do miss Frawley's presence.

Bartram and Grimes (tonight) were not much better in their delivery and choices out of defence. We had no drive and seriously need to fasttrack Strauss (who I though was good), Bail, Tapscott or Blease off halfback. It is a serious issue.

Agree as I've already stated re: Grimes and agree that Strauss did ok in closing, spoiling and kicking effectively.

Obviously still a work in progress. At least with Bruce gone, we won't be holding anyone back and the FD can sift through our list of potentials as you've listed.

Wake. Up. Call.

Even though it is NAB Cup, it is a bit of a leveller for expectations of supporters spruiking top 4 and for those of the opinion it must be finals "or else".....

SOS Chip ASAP

As I exited the Dome...this did cross my mind. The thought provided a relaxant.

Martin has lost me completely, he has less use than the old screen door on a submarine

There's an old screen door on a submarine ?

Strauss - not an AFL footballer, will be gone soon

Disagree. Will be around for a while. He has attributes worth perservering with: -

• Speed (good closing speed)
  
• Spoil (some good spoiling last night)
  
• Kicking & Penetration (accurate too - a must)
  

Absolute embarrassment tonight

I did use this description in the Game Thread after the second quarter. It was representative of an instance where Watts was one out had the right position to work his opponent under the ball, yet lost his position far too easily. We lost possession of the ball. What I didn't mention was the following by Rogue which also added to the embarrassment:

I'm sick of seeing Watts choose not to give the ball off to the first or second options and then prop, turn around and get caught. A classic Watts move was evident on the eastern wing/flank towards the south end of the ground just before 8PM - midway into the second quarter. As soon as he won the ball I thought it was going to be another one of 'those' Watts moments and he didn't disappoint. I don't know what the cause is, but he needs to find a remedy.

I think that's the most animated post I've ever seen from you on Demonland

He didn't miss either. I think Rogue is spot on.

There were quite a few times during the night where our players didn't use the first option. Joel MacDonald was another. Rivers was free and all that required was a long handball or a chip kick at first option. Instead he decided he might go more direct and take on Patty Ryder. Result, caught. Goal to Essendon. Summed up the night for me. Disappointment.

I know some will say "it's only NAB Cup", but it's the decision making when the "press is on" that worries me. They can eradicate it by working on it and playing more together and being accustomed to confronting the pressure applied by the opposition forwards more often. However, I'm a big believer in that you either "have it" or "you don't" (ie. the 'nous').

Midfield - we were killed. Telltale signs that we will miss Junior. We didn't have McKenzie and Scully either. And it told.

[wmth 69]

Terrible last night, overused the ball in 2008 esq fashion, slow, beatean at the contest and the ball didn't even bounce our way. Was hoping to see something more promising from Watts last night. Brain fades still there...However, I am going to remain calm. NAB cup and all.

Hopefully just Bailey experimenting, but don't mess with Green - play him up forward, and deep. He may want the captain up the ground a bit for presence, but it helps with our structure so much. Push Watts and Jurrah up the ground. Green has probably always been a natural forward.

Not worried about Jones - very rusty.

Moloney - will always have knocks on his game and never looks good without outside help.

Bennell - get him out of defence (or at least deep). I think forwards enjoy playing on him. Like him up forward.

Davey - 2008 esq to have him on back flank (defensive). Wing, drifting forward for him.

Grimes - the general. MacDonald, Warnock should be embarrased by watching his effort.

Maric - look forward to seeing him round 1. Will play.

Jamar - very rusty.

Jake the snake - Gumby, but he could be ok one day.

Bate - what are you? needs to be leading hard. Maybe worth a burst in the middle.

Watts - just take the first option (goes for everyone).

Warnock - can defend, but don't let him make a decision.

Strauss - 1st XVIII Scotch.

Trengove - A Deelightful player.

Overall, midfield simply wasn't clean enough. Too rusty, fumbles. too much pressure on defence, al la 2008 and fowards were starved. Ok when we got it down there.

Hopefully this doesn't start some sort of posting craze, but all the threads on the "S" word topic are closed. Looks like Scully will be back next week (needed his pace last night) and perhaps for a while longer yet at the dees???

Mark Stevens' Twitter: Scully should play next week. If he does, is likely to break silence in lead up to game with "all-in" press conference. Good call by Dees.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

How about Frawley, Scully, Mckenzie, Petterd, Morton

(along with Gysberts who has shown he can handle the big league)

that would be 6 from our best side too.

As you point out we did have a few out and it's not just who you have out but who you replace them with. Frawley is out replaced by Warnock, one of out best for one of our worst, at least last night anyway. I cannot believe just how much Warnock has declined, perhaps it was because he was surrounded by better players before he looked better himself.

There has been criticism of Jones and Moloney and it's warranted. Neither seems to have learnt anything they keep repeating the same old mistakes with Jones getting caught, or continually getting someone else in to trouble and Beamer just banging it long. They just don't appear to have the quick reflexes required to play the run and carry game.

My biggest disappointment was the feeling that it will be another year like the last few and that all the optimism is misplaced and we are really just not good enough. We seem to lack the mental toughness of other teams and this has been a constant for many years under various coaches and administrations. I must say that Jack Watts saying that he didn’t get upset if we lost upset me, I get upset if we lose so I expect the players to at least do that.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Look give credit where it is due, Essendon were hot last night, they just wanted the ball more, and the old habit of being 5mtr behind a player reared its ugly head again. And talk about flat footed, do we even know how to lead? Seriously is it our game plan to wait for someone else to do it? Our backline really stunk last night, warnock especially, leaving men loose, in the wrong position for our version of "zone", indiscriminate kicking and handballing just sheer lack of vision.

Poor effort all round, no positives what so ever.

[old55 23,576]

It was a pretty disappointing night. Essendon played with far more intensity - more clearances and contested ball, and got far more numbers to the contest. This is where the NAB Cup factor offers some solace. Their structure was good - their numbers at the contest gave them handball options in space whereas we were shut down and often forced to handball very short. Their press was excellent and our defence often had nowhere to go. I think Sean Wellmann would have had a big influence on attacking us.

Last night really highlighted our problem in defence with kicking (see Gerard Healy thread). Bartram and Macdonald - both are great one-on-one but their kicking is just too poor, Bartram knows his limitations and kicks to an unmannned player but it's destructive to momentum and if that player is Warnock, Macdonald, Rivers and even Grimes whose kicking is also flaky - uh-oh! It's another good call/bad call - both Bartram and Macdonald can't play in the premiership side IMO. We need to persevere with Strauss who is a really great kick and it sounds like Blease is training with the backs too, maybe Tapscott is also an option. Frawley will replace Warnock and that will help.

I could talk about the mids and forwards another time ...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was told a few days ago that the Bombers were out to get us this season and they did it this time with style. Their work rate compared to ours was sensational. We did not work as hard as last week. Conceded a very high score for this abreviated form of the game. I don't mind we got beaten like this. Better to see all deficiences exposed now rather than later.

Grimes was OK but our defence was very disorganised and bad decision making. Again allowed too many cheap goals from stoppages and broken play. And conceded too many easy marks inside 50 as we also did last week.

Our midfield was poor. Something lacking there. Just can't get the ball out in stoppages. Scully was missed.

Our forwards again looked good despite limited opportunities. But not pleased with Watts. Showed very little. Maric looks like he can become a genuine goal hound. Dunn impressed and Jurrah was Jurrah for the most part.

I don't think Bailey had the team prepared for what to expect and was outcoached IMO.

Overall IMO a lazy performance from us but a very long way to go yet.

Our defence was under the pump, with little help from the mids, it appeared early in the 3rd. This is a good point to remember, that Sean Wellman left to serve King Hird,,,, and We went Royally last night. So there was some confusion there last night, adding that Frawley was out, its a bit understandable, especially this early in the season.

I expect that we will readjust our defence, and Warnock, who looked, as with Jamar,,, short of a gallop... Perhaps a delayed preseason for these boys, so some fitness still to come.

The Mids group did not work hard enough and I thought were caught mentally asleep. The 3rd Qtr saw us with many possessions of the ball @ H/B & Wing, stopped in our tracks wondering where to make a forward thrust. This is where we lost the momentum & started to lose composure. So the forwards were also at fault here not breaking the defensive wall.

We also looked a lot better when we went harder at the ball & the pack to break the defenders setup. We need to employ much more aggression in our play.

Edited February 27, 2011 by dee-luded

[DeezMan 4]

My biggest disappointment was the feeling that it will be another year like the last few and that all the optimism is misplaced and we are really just not good enough. We seem to lack the mental toughness of other teams and this has been a constant for many years under various coaches and administrations.

Dude... it's the damn NAB Cup.

- Collingwood lost in week 1 last season.

- Carlton have owon the whole thing and then were wooden-spooners in that same year.

- West Coast defeated Freo in this year's NAB Cup.....

In terms of the final result, take it with a grain of the proverbial salt (ha, that sounds funny).

Rather then focus on the team as a whole so much, look at players INDIVIDUALLY... especially those who can't crack the regular 22 --> Maric is shining very bright. Martin and Spencer are having a crack at ruckwork. Strauss can see first-hand how our backline is gelling. Cook, Howe, Evans and Nicholson are getting a run. Blease has been able to test his leg out. And also, guys have been playing in positions they are not so acquainted to - I spied Dunn in defence, Bartram and Jurrah in the centre square etc.

Exposure is critical and it is those "irregular faces" that will cherish the NAB Cup whilst guys like Rivers, Moloney, Green, Jamar and Davey will more or less "watch over" and take a bit of a backward step - not applying themselves in excess to save themselves for the real season.

Come on... I think some of us need to relax a tad. Take a backward step and think about things a bit more.

[Weedster 174]

I thought we had 4 players only last night - Jurrah, Trengove, Grimes & Maric

Absolutely pathetic defensive structure - kicking backward should not be the first option

Overuse of handball with no purpose other than to get rid of it.

Jamar - what was that ??? How about trying to direct your taps to someone instead of straight down behind you

Jack Watts - we keep waiting but that was shizen - we want a KPP, not an outside flanker !

Our set-ups & structures were just so poor - extremely disappointed with what I saw - fact - Essendon are not much chop !!

[Weedster 174]

I thought we had 4 players only last night - Jurrah, Trengove, Grimes & Maric

Absolutely pathetic defensive structure - kicking backward should not be the first option

Overuse of handball with no purpose other than to get rid of it.

Jamar - what was that ??? How about trying to direct your taps to someone instead of straight down behind you

Jack Watts - we keep waiting but that was shizen - we want a KPP, not an outside flanker !

Our set-ups & structures were just so poor - extremely disappointed with what I saw - fact - Essendon are not much chop !!

One other positive in all the gloom - I thought Martin showed something - clearly a better option than Spencer, by a long way.

[Parma 28]

Gysberts,Blease,Tapscott Scully, Tregrove, Mckenzie.

The above is our Premiership mids. Only one played last night.

Enough said

[deejammin' 2,370]

For those who are playing down the significance of this loss I totally agree that in general NAB cup means nothing and we did play some players out of position. However I think our club and the players actually really wanted to win that one and thought they would going in... very dissapointing to be outplayed in that situation, if we had no intent to win it would still not be a great performance. Overall I hope future games make me forget about this one very quickly

[Keyser Söze 0]

You need a dozen topline mids. That's only 6.

Sylvia and Davey both played and should be included in that equation.

(& Viney wasn't out there either...)

[Red Sox 2]

Gysberts,Blease,Tapscott Scully, Tregrove, Mckenzie.

The above is our Premiership mids. Only one played last night.

Enough said

I await the day we seem them in any game together let alone playing off for the flag.

Three in there that will get over the injuries hopefully and one that won't be anyway after this year! Well it is a vent thread!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Post of the thread.

It's NAB cup people.

yeah instead of discussing Watts' shizen effort let's bag the bloke bagging him, that will distract us

maybe next time i'll stay sober, i'm sure he will kick some goals then

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Gysberts,Blease,Tapscott Scully, Tregrove, Mckenzie.

The above is our Premiership mids. Only one played last night.

Enough said

the first three have done nothing or almost nothing

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Dude... it's the damn NAB Cup.

- Collingwood lost in week 1 last season.

- Carlton have owon the whole thing and then were wooden-spooners in that same year.

- West Coast defeated Freo in this year's NAB Cup.....

In terms of the final result, take it with a grain of the proverbial salt (ha, that sounds funny).

Rather then focus on the team as a whole so much, look at players INDIVIDUALLY... especially those who can't crack the regular 22 --> Maric is shining very bright. Martin and Spencer are having a crack at ruckwork. Strauss can see first-hand how our backline is gelling. Cook, Howe, Evans and Nicholson are getting a run. Blease has been able to test his leg out. And also, guys have been playing in positions they are not so acquainted to - I spied Dunn in defence, Bartram and Jurrah in the centre square etc.

Exposure is critical and it is those "irregular faces" that will cherish the NAB Cup whilst guys like Rivers, Moloney, Green, Jamar and Davey will more or less "watch over" and take a bit of a backward step - not applying themselves in excess to save themselves for the real season.

Come on... I think some of us need to relax a tad. Take a backward step and think about things a bit more.

Dude NAB Cup or not we were creamed last night, we didn't lose that game Essendon won it, they were much better than us, they applied pressure and we folded. They had sure hands and we dropped easy marks, they were hard at the ball and forced errors, I would imagine that other clubs would look at that.

We played the same way against North at Etihad last year and the same mistakes were on show; the short kicking to someone in a worse position the fumbling of the ball the tiny Cam Bruce like handballs. There was no evidence that we have improved one iota from then; the club indicated that we were looking to go a long way in the NAB Cup, well on the form they showed last night you wouldn’t think so.

If we think we are going to win games there by kicking to someone on the 50mtr line then retreating to the goal square we are sadly mistaken. We did it last year and it failed we did it last night and it failed this time to a lesser opponent.

[drdrake 3,163]

Went a long last night, left concerned that we continue to have the same issues and the big one is we just cant get the football inside the 50m arc enough. Ever since Bailey took over this is the key stat that we have been smashed. Our scoring percentage once inside 50m will be very good but we need to get in there around 55 times per game not 35-45 times. We also have issues with playing teams we should beat, we have been the underdog for so long we need to learn to dominate teams that we should beat. Last night it we allowed Essendon to dominate us.

It is the NAB cup and it was good to get a big kick up the backside.

One thing that can never happen in the AFL season is Bartram, MacDonald, Rivers, Warnock, all four should never be in our back six together. We need Strauss or Blease to step up this year to claim that second mid/small defender spot, clubs know we want to get the footy to Grimes we need another highly skilled player to be a good option.

Midfield Jamar's tapwork is being hunted now, last year no one expected him to improve the way he did, once you start to win a tap out consistantly the opposition midfield will start to rove of you, this happened last night, especially the backward tap to Moloney, it got picked off last night.

Not concerned about forward line if we can get the footy in there we can kick enough goals. We need to find the right mix, Dunn Bate and Watts isn't the right mix Bate needs to be replaced but a smaller quicker player that will apply more defensive pressure Aussie, Bennell, Davey, Tapscott, Maric, Jetta I would like to see two of either these players up forward to complement Watts, Green, Dunn and Jurrah, would like to see Davey pushed deep forward when tagged go back to his dangerous goal kicking best

I noticed we changed one main thing that I thought was good in Adelaide, when we had no option we kicked long down the line and got numbers to the contest. Last night we tryed to hit the hard target and when we went long down the line no one worked hard to get to the contest.

The upside off losing is we will rest Jamar, Sylvia, Green, Jurrah, Garland, Davey and more than likely Trengove next week so we will see more of Blease, Strauss, Maric, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook, Gawn.

[Rogue 585]

I think that's the most animated post I've ever seen from you on Demonland

Haha

[Geddy Lee 582]

yeah instead of discussing Watts' shizen effort let's bag the bloke bagging him, that will distract us

maybe next time i'll stay sober, i'm sure he will kick some goals then

The sky is falling!

[rpfc 28,432]

yeah instead of discussing Watts' shizen effort let's bag the bloke bagging him, that will distract us

maybe next time i'll stay sober, i'm sure he will kick some goals then

Yeah, I hate it when someone rips me when all I am trying to do is write off a 19 year old CHF that was one of about 15 that had an awful game.

It is just so unfair.

[demoniac 1,333]

24 February. Very early booths indeed.