Stars at the Melbourne Football club

[Wolfmother 182]

Thought I would start this topic after reading some stuff on one of the other threads about stars at the MFC.

The way I rate a star is one that every club wants and is the who's who of the AFL world. I'm talking Voss, Hird and Buckley and currently speaking Judd, Ablett, Swan maybe Pavlich(although because they are interstate they get less air time)

I don't think the MFC has had a star since R.Flower. We had some potential and some great players but no real stars. Players like Neitz, Stynes, Viney were great players especially for our club but weren't in that top five in the competition every year like the players mentioned above. Someone like Neitz reminds me of Matthew Richardson who was a great player never really the star maybe the 10 - 20 type player.

The players I'm thinking of are in Mike Sheehan top 5/10 every year. I know between 96-98 G.Lyon was rated no 3 in the comp by him and if he hadn't had the back issues could definitely been a star same goes for the Ox.

The reason I say this is we need one of those stars from this next crop especially as I believe it helps the marketability of the club.

Although he has been in threads for all the wrong reasons this week I think Tom Scully could be the best player to play for the MFC since R.Flower. I have watched him closely and his attributes and professional has me believing he will be one of those special players, big call, and this is not about putting pressure on a player in his second season just think he has that potential just like the Ox before the knee injuries.

What are peoples thoughts I know a few rate Trangove higher than Scully so hopefully one is star of the comp preferable two...

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Two words: Liam Jurrah.

He will be the player all the kids want to be and all the clubs want to have.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Trengove

Scully

Watts

Morton

Grimes

Jurrah

Frawley

Sylvia

any of the above could be become that 'top 5' type player that you describe. I agree Scully looks the most likely.

Gysberts

Garland

Petterd

Jones

McKenzie

Bennell and others

make up a great supporting cast

[H_T 3,049]

Stars at the Melbourne Football Club.

Robert Flower.

Wasn't just a star and a champ, Flower is legendary.

Today. We have none apparently. But as I stated in 2009 in the infamous thread, Liam Jurrah. When I purchased a jumper for my son prior to Xmas (with #31 on the back), the girl told me that #24 was by far the most popular, then #31, #4, #36 and quite a few for #8, #9, #12 and #16. Speaks volumes.

I also think Scully will be one, and still hold hope for Sylvia to deliver more, much more.

[GolfBoyPro 43]

I hope we get a couple of superstars, like when WC had Judd and Cousins. I got a good feeling that it might just happen too................. I dont have any doubt we are finals bound within the next 2 yrs. GO Dees.......

[sylvinator 96]

To win a premiership we'll need 3 players to be considered in the top 10 in the entire league for that season + probably another 5 players on top of those 3 to be considered in the top 50 in the afl

[Wolfmother 182]

To win a premiership we'll need 3 players to be considered in the top 10 in the entire league for that season + probably another 5 players on top of those 3 to be considered in the top 50 in the afl

Agreed and that is for only one season... You could see Jurrah, Sylvia or Watts maybe rated up there for one season but not constantly...

The only ones I can see being stars are Grimes (but I think the position he playing may stop that) Scully or Trengove.

I can see guys like Watts or Morton having seasons similar to a Reiwolt or Goodes but just can't see it happening constantly, like the former, enough to have them stars of the comp (alway hope I'm wrong)

It would be nice for young draftees to be called the next scully, trengrove or watts.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I think Bennell is a smokey to really come on and become one of our top 5 players but probably not a star. With his speed, agility and clean hands and if he develops his tank and gains some footy smarts in the next couple of years he will be an extremely valuable player for us.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I think Bennell is a smokey to really come on and become one of our top 5 players but probably not a star. With his speed, agility and clean hands and if he develops his tank and gains some footy smarts in the next couple of years he will be an extremely valuable player for us.

I totally agree with that, some of the things we have seen him do already have been pretty special, will be a winger/hff/forward pocketer who will kick the odd bag of 4 every now and then, handy member of a flag side

Wolfmother what is so good about Grimes compared to Watts?

[jayceebee31 761]

Wolf, you are totally correct in my mind.Flower, I also rate as a champion.Others that you have mentioned -I rate very good players.We have the makings of several players on our list whom may become champions but we will have to wait a decade to decide -"Whom".

[rpfc 28,779]

At some point, these monikers become pointless and impossible to measure and define.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I still think Scully will be more of a star than Grimes.

Jack Watts will be a lesser star, but not for a while.

And Jurrah will be a white dwarf but will fade to red at times.

[Robbie57 2,022]

I believe that Col Sylvia is capable of winning the medal this year (is he too old to be condsidered a star?).

As for stars there is no doubt that Scully is in the box seat but Jurrah will be the most exciting player on our list.

Personally i think Watts will be a champion of the club as well although he might not be a star he will be in our top 3 week in and out for theyears to come.

[jayceebee31 761]

Two words: Liam Jurrah.

He will be the player all the kids want to be and all the clubs want to have.

Interesting as the OX tonight nominated him to become an All Australian this year.

[Thrice 216]

Trengove

Scully

Watts

Morton

Grimes

Jurrah

Frawley

Sylvia

any of the above could be become that 'top 5' type player that you describe. I agree Scully looks the most likely.

Gysberts

Garland

Petterd

Jones

McKenzie

Bennell and others

make up a great supporting cast

Mate your list is way over the top, I'll agree that all the players listed have the ability to make an appearance in Sheahan's top 50 at some stage in their career but that's about it for most of them.

Morton, Frawley and Grimes have absolutely 0% of being considered in the Judd, Ablett top 5 category. They are defenders and defenders never get considered for Star Status (as per WM's description). Sylvia is a chance on physical attributes, but perhaps lacks the pure footy instincts to be a true star; on the other hand Trengove has the pure footy instincts but lacks the physical attributes to be a true star. I suspect Watts will be a Neitz level player - club champion but not a guy that all other clubs fear/envy. That leaves Jurrah and Scully, IMO the only two players that tick all the boxes that could propel them into the top echelons of the AFL, even then Jurrah's only an outside chance. However; the kids will love Jurrah and he could drag in a few thousand extra supporters, especially if we are a successful side over the next decade.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Thrice

[Supermercado 2,802]

Thread makes me nostalgic for Jakovich. Should have been the biggest hit since the Beatles.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Barring injury, Liam Jurrah will certainly be a "star" in the next few years. If he isn't already. This will certainly be enhanced if we are floating around the top 4.

James Frawley will be a star defender, Tom Scully will be a star midfielder, another dominant season from Mark Jamar and he'll certainly be a star ruckman. Brad Green has been a very good player for most of his career, but his last season has certainly gotten him closer to that 'star' mark. Jack Watts is another who I think has the potential to be a star half forward player.

As for ones in recent history, I certainly regard David Neitz to be a star in the confines of the melbourne football club. Outside, he is just a very good, champion player.

[jacey 333]

What are peoples thoughts I know a few rate Trangove higher than Scully so hopefully one is star of the comp preferable two...

I rate Tangrove higher then Scully but still IMO Watts will be the one.

Much has been made about Watt's build but his fitness was probably the biggest problem in his first 2 years. I have no doubt if he had the tank and the same build in the past 2 years, Watts would've been talked about as the best player coming through.

Grimes looks to be a heart and soul spiritual leader sort but i can't see him being top 5 players in the league.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Mate your list is way over the top, I'll agree that all the players listed have the ability to make an appearance in Sheahan's top 50 at some stage in their career but that's about it for most of them.

Morton, Frawley and Grimes have absolutely 0% of being considered in the Judd, Ablett top 5 category. They are defenders and defenders never get considered for Star Status (as per WM's description). Sylvia is a chance on physical attributes, but perhaps lacks the pure footy instincts to be a true star; on the other hand Trengove has the pure footy instincts but lacks the physical attributes to be a true star. I suspect Watts will be a Neitz level player - club champion but not a guy that all other clubs fear/envy. That leaves Jurrah and Scully, IMO the only two players that tick all the boxes that could propel them into the top echelons of the AFL, even then Jurrah's only an outside chance. However; the kids will love Jurrah and he could drag in a few thousand extra supporters, especially if we are a successful side over the next decade.

Morton and Grimes are nowhere near being set in stone as labelled 'defenders'. I personally think Morton will end up a wingman who plays a semi-key forward role and kicks a bag regularly, and Grimes has always been a mdfielder, he is just starting out of HBF like a million others have before him. Frawley is set to become what Mal Michael was to Brisbane and Scarlett was to Geelong. He won't get many votes on Brownlow night but that is not what defines a 'star' in my opinion, Full Back is every bit as important as Full Forward because they keep you from getting matches ripped away from you by the dominance of some gorilla in the other side

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I think Bennell is a smokey to really come on and become one of our top 5 players but probably not a star. With his speed, agility and clean hands and if he develops his tank and gains some footy smarts in the next couple of years he will be an extremely valuable player for us.

Totally agree.

Also, Sylvia could have a Brownlow in him.

[13thflag 0]

LJ for sure, and Chippa and don't forget who will be joining the red @ blue army next year young Jack Viney.

[Thrice 216]

Morton and Grimes are nowhere near being set in stone as labelled 'defenders'. I personally think Morton will end up a wingman who plays a semi-key forward role and kicks a bag regularly, and Grimes has always been a mdfielder, he is just starting out of HBF like a million others have before him. Frawley is set to become what Mal Michael was to Brisbane and Scarlett was to Geelong. He won't get many votes on Brownlow night but that is not what defines a 'star' in my opinion, Full Back is every bit as important as Full Forward because they keep you from getting matches ripped away from you by the dominance of some gorilla in the other side

I don't disagree with that, but using the OP's definition of a 'star' as being top 5 in the league (Judd, Ablett, N Riewoldt etc) these guys just aren't it. I guess your definition is more liberal that Wolfmother's.

Even if Frawley is Fletcher / Scarlett good, he won't be a star as per WM's definition. IMO Morton and Grimes could be A-grade but not elite, even as midefielders. Much like Trengove they lack the physical attributes to be elite players. That's no knock on their ability as footballers, it's just they way it is. If you don't have burst pace and gut-running ability you cannot be an elite mid; and as a forward you need to have a midfielder's endurance and be exceptional overhead and convert at >65%. Therefore Scully's our best chance with Jurrah an outside chance (ultimately it'll probably be his lack of endurance that will probably stop him from reaching the top).

Watts hasn't taken a mark above his head in his career and has only been near about half-a-dozen marking contests in 20-odd games; that doesn't bode well for him reaching Riewoldt's level.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I don't disagree with that, but using the OP's definition of a 'star' as being top 5 in the league (Judd, Ablett, N Riewoldt etc) these guys just aren't it. I guess your definition is more liberal that Wolfmother's.

Even if Frawley is Fletcher / Scarlett good, he won't be a star as per WM's definition. IMO Morton and Grimes could be A-grade but not elite, even as midefielders. Much like Trengove they lack the physical attributes to be elite players. That's no knock on their ability as footballers, it's just they way it is. If you don't have burst pace and gut-running ability you cannot be an elite mid; and as a forward you need to have a midfielder's endurance and be exceptional overhead and convert at >65%. Therefore Scully's our best chance with Jurrah an outside chance (ultimately it'll probably be his lack of endurance that will probably stop him from reaching the top).

Watts hasn't taken a mark above his head in his career and has only been near about half-a-dozen marking contests in 20-odd games; that doesn't bode well for him reaching Riewoldt's level.

Don't worry about Watts. I used to be a skeptic like you, but I've re-watched heaps of games from last year and I'm convinced he has all the weapons. Don't forget he will have the best midfield in the comp feeding him and he will be really hard to stop. Oppositions will have to worry about Jurrah, hopefully Cook, a resting ruckman (spencer/Jamar/Gawn) and Ricky P, Bate and Dunn, all on the end of Sylvia/Scully/Viney etc service things are looking very good

[Wolfmother 182]

Wolfmother what is so good about Grimes compared to Watts?

I think Grimes has demonstrated the ability to control games and has demonstrated his composure in the back half of the ground which is beyond his years. If he continues the natural progression and steps up to into the midfield I could see him being a start. This would only occur if none of the other midfielders develop into said player.

I think the stars and great players have to have internal and external recognition and preconceived notions really effects their ability to be rated higher. I see many people rating stephen Hill as the best player from the previous three drafts and although he is a great young player the expectation on him where relatively small thus people have noticed him more.

I think the issue for Watts is what is expected of him and what he actually is... He is one of the most natural gifted athletes to play football with amazing physical attributes but I think people expect him to a charging CHF or FF and i think he is better suited to the HHF/Wing a bit like James Hird which I think is a good comparison... The issue is will the expectation of a goal kicking contested marking machine cause him to be not rated as highly???

p.s I hope Watts is a star just can see him marked harshly

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I think Grimes has demonstrated the ability to control games and has demonstrated his composure in the back half of the ground which is beyond his years. If he continues the natural progression and steps up to into the midfield I could see him being a start. This would only occur if none of the other midfielders develop into said player.

I think the stars and great players have to have internal and external recognition and preconceived notions really effects their ability to be rated higher. I see many people rating stephen Hill as the best player from the previous three drafts and although he is a great young player the expectation on him where relatively small thus people have noticed him more.

I think the issue for Watts is what is expected of him and what he actually is... He is one of the most natural gifted athletes to play football with amazing physical attributes but I think people expect him to a charging CHF or FF and i think he is better suited to the HHF/Wing a bit like James Hird which I think is a good comparison... The issue is will the expectation of a goal kicking contested marking machine cause him to be not rated as highly???

p.s I hope Watts is a star just can see him marked harshly

well you are discussing issues of media sensationalism and bias, i'm not interested in such things. If we become premiership contenders then the blokes at the top of our best and fairest list will be stars no matter what the big-club-pandering media has to say about it

you've just said he might end up a James Hird type, which is one of your three examples of a 'star'. If Watts ends up this type of player why will he not be recognised like Hird was? Just becaue he was drafted at 1 as a KPP, who cares?