Would you begrudge the player

[Wolfmother 182]

Although a lot want to put their head in the sand and say we are a great club and won't lose anyone there is a realistic chance that a player could be poached by GWS... we were lucky to avoid the GC signing but with GWS having two years to sign uncontracted players they may go after one of our young guns.

This isn't a thread about any one in particular player but if one of our said gun player performs out of site and was offer 6 mil over 6yrs would you begrudge him for taking it considering Davey is probably our highest paid on about 600K??

[Guest milpod]

Agree,in the next few years we will loose players we desire to stay.But building a list like we have with new teams and terms such as free agency.It is inevitable.

This is where a 60K membership base will outbid a 30K membership base.So it is upon the stewardship of the AFL to keep the comp equitable.

I don't follow soccer,but as far as I can understand in the EPL only 4-5 teams can/or will ever win it??Will this ever happen to AFL?

[kallioota 0]

lets face it if l was offered 1 mill a year over what l get now then l,m out of here.

as a supporter you are upset but if a work make left your company for an extra 20 thousand a year would you hold it against him l think not.

do l blame Ablett for going to the gold coast not at all.

hope all young players stay but there is every chance that we will lose one.

[rpfc 28,441]

Although a lot want to put their head in the sand and say we are a great club and won't lose anyone there is a realistic chance that a player could be poached by GWS... we were lucky to avoid the GC signing but with GWS having two years to sign uncontracted players they may go after one of our young guns.

This isn't a thread about any one in particular player but if one of our said gun player performs out of site and was offer 6 mil over 6yrs would you begrudge him for taking it considering Davey is probably our highest paid on about 600K??

Davey is on about $450k

Bruce was where the money was.

Ummm, yeah. It's a tough one. I still don't think we have to worry a great deal and I think any kid leaving this club is out of their mind, or getting bad advice.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I think the ONLY reason a kid would be leaving would be for the money.

There is nothing else that Greater Western Sydney can offer them that they can't get here... except for more opportunities if it someone like Maric or Jetta that still cannot manage to crack the side in 2011 (if that's how it plays out).

I believe Ablett when he says the challenge was one of the greatest motivators for him.

I think the rest at GC are either players that given incentive by their old clubs to move on, or average players that couldn't get that good a payday any other way.

I think we're almost guaranteed to lose someone, but likely not someone who is... "flag core".

I'd watch closely anyone that doesn't have a great 2011. Guys like maybe Bate, Morton, Warnock.

Not exactly household names. At the same time, the Giants could see that the quality of those players isn't outstanding (Morton excepted) and hold out until the next year, in hope.

[Watt and Howe? 16]

Although a lot want to put their head in the sand

Who?

Useless thread.

[digby wolf 1]

lets face it if l was offered 1 mill a year over what l get now then l,m out of here.

as a supporter you are upset but if a work make left your company for an extra 20 thousand a year would you hold it against him l think not.

do l blame Ablett for going to the gold coast not at all.

hope all young players stay but there is every chance that we will lose one.

Although you're right and there are people in the world ( like yourself ) that only ever think in terms of money, there are others that don't and value themselves somewhat higher than the dollar. You may not have met such people in your gordon gekko type of existence but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The corporate world will end up climbing up it's own anus and destroying itself. Admitedly it will take a few fine people and institutions with it

( football clubs etc. ) but it will happen and it will keep happening until we evolve enough to stop eating our own babies.

[daisycutter 29,616]

If any player (except melb) left for momey I would not begrudge them

If a melb player left for money I'd hate his guts as a disloyal, traitorous mercenary

If any player from any club left for money to go to Coll, Carl or Ess I would immediately suspect corruption and salary cap rorting

If a Coll player left to come to melb I would feel dirty, even more so if we paid overs

Oh and BTW, A very merry Xmas to all Demonlanders

[kallioota 0]

Although you're right and there are people in the world ( like yourself ) that only ever think in terms of money, there are others that don't and value themselves somewhat higher than the dollar. You may not have met such people in your gordon gekko type of existence but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The corporate world will end up climbing up it's own anus and destroying itself. Admitedly it will take a few fine people and institutions with it

( football clubs etc. ) but it will happen and it will keep happening until we evolve enough to stop eating our own babies.

what a load of sh#t when it comes to work my family comes first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and what's best for them.

not what's best for my boss or patients.

l give my all but if l was offered 20k more l would have to think about it.

and lets face it you would only leave if it was best for your family .

think you need to evolve caveman !

loyalty ( a strong feeling of support or allegiance ) which many of us have to family first

unlike the sounds of you that would eat our own

grow up smell the flowers and get real.

Edited December 24, 2010 by kallioota

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Trading Des Headland didn't seem to hurt Brisbane. In fact it only hurt Freo. :D

I think the lesson is in there somewhere. At any given trade period for about the next 3 years, the demons table will be among the busiest. The trick is to pick the players with the greatest value, the least amount of upside, and who will do the least amount of damage at their final destination. Every club, if they're successful, will need to go through this if they're serious.

[Whispering_Jack 30,173]

The problem is the combination of the rule that GWSG can pick up uncontracted players and the fact that GWSG has much more room in its salary cap than the other clubs. This basically knocks competitors out when the issue boils down to money alone because they simply can't even enter the bidding race. You can't begrudge someone like Garry Ablett Jnr for going to the Suns in those circumstances.

I would maintain it would be different if GWSG made a grab for a young player coming out of his first contract after being drafted as would be the case with someone like Tom Scully. The AFL should have taken younger players into account IMO and prevented the taking of uncontracted players under these rules with less than say four year's service.

Fotunately, someone like Scully has his family close at hand and he's much better off being close to his natural environment than in a place like the outer western suburbs of Sydney. He has more chance of expanding his earning capacity in years to come at a club like Melbourne which will be knocking on the door to success from 2012 onwards than at a pioneer club where the wheels could quickly fall off.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

what a load of sh#t when it comes to work my family comes first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and what's best for them.

pft we are not talking about whether or not you can feed your family. We are talking about whether you need the extra Lamborghini and the house with 7 bathrooms. It's pure and simple GREED and that's all it comes down to. Chris Judd would still have made an arseload of money playing for us as would Gary Ablett at Geelong. Both sold out in the most unbelievable betrayal because of pure GREED. This has paved the way for everyone else to go ahead and do so and our players will be no different when GWS opens the cheque book and the Eagles throw in a multi-million dollar property on top of their salary. This is why we will continue to be a minnow club in the end. The mentality of the 'if another employer offered me 20k more' camp, thinking that is any way even the slightest bit comparable to AFL players actually makes me doubt humanity. Merry Christmas.

[Nasher 33,616]

we were lucky to avoid the GC signing but with GWS having two years to sign uncontracted players they may go after one of our young guns.

I'm not at all worried about any of our young guns being poached - it just does not make logical sense. Which young guns did GC take from other clubs? They paid an exorbitant price for an established star in Ablett - the rest of the players they took were average-good senior players. They didn't take a single unestablished star from anyone, and I think they're very unlikely to get any, because:

• Most clubs recognise the value of their young star-potential players (e.g. Tom Scully) and will fight to the death not to lose the player
  
• Young players are not going to be seeking the same coin as players in their mid-late 20s. If their management are worth their salt, the player and his management will realise that their best earning is ahead of them, and they are better off at this point becoming elite at their craft (to increase future value) and bonding with their team. The money grubbing can come later.
  
• The biggest point: new clubs such as GWS are not going to pay star-potential players the same kind of money that GC paid Ablett, because the star is as yet unestablished. Ablett being a gun for a few years at GC is as close to a sure thing as you get in football because he already is one right now - the same doesn't apply for player like Scully. Perhaps the more pertinent point is that this contract will be Ablett's biggest one of his career; post this contract he'll be on the downhill slope money wise. If GWS paid overs for a Scully now, they're going to have to pay even more overs when he's 25 and they've got a whole list they have to pay. He'd end up filling their salary cap on his own.
  

I've used Scully as the example here because he's clearly the player people are worried about losing, but you could substitute his name with any young gun in the league (Dustin Martin et al). You can call this head-in-sand stuff if you like but I think the probability of losing Scully to GWS is so slim that only the worst MFCSS sufferers would even bother giving it any thought, let alone worrying about it or wasting brain cycles on deciding whether they'd begrudge him or not.

As I see it, the most likely players we'd lose are the average-good types like Bate or Warnock. Good enough to get a game in a new side and remain competitive. We won't lose our young star-potentials for the reasons I outlined above, and I doubt our best senior players are likely to be targets because they're not good enough for GWS to pay overs, so we'd just match whatever was offered. Given that, if a player of the target ilk (Bate, Warnock et al) believes he can get better coin and further opportunities at a new club, then more power to him.

[sylvinator 96]

I'm not at all worried about any of our young guns being poached - it just does not make logical sense. Which young guns did GC take from other clubs? They paid an exorbitant price for an established star in Ablett - the rest of the players they took were average-good senior players. They didn't take a single unestablished star from anyone, and I think they're very unlikely to get any, because:

• Most clubs recognise the value of their young star-potential players (e.g. Tom Scully) and will fight to the death not to lose the player
  
• Young players are not going to be seeking the same coin as players in their mid-late 20s. If their management are worth their salt, the player and his management will realise that their best earning is ahead of them, and they are better off at this point becoming elite at their craft (to increase future value) and bonding with their team. The money grubbing can come later.
  
• The biggest point: new clubs such as GWS are not going to pay star-potential players the same kind of money that GC paid Ablett, because the star is as yet unestablished. Ablett being a gun for a few years at GC is as close to a sure thing as you get in football because he already is one right now - the same doesn't apply for player like Scully. Perhaps the more pertinent point is that this contract will be Ablett's biggest one of his career; post this contract he'll be on the downhill slope money wise. If GWS paid overs for a Scully now, they're going to have to pay even more overs when he's 25 and they've got a whole list they have to pay. He'd end up filling their salary cap on his own.
  

I've used Scully as the example here because he's clearly the player people are worried about losing, but you could substitute his name with any young gun in the league (Dustin Martin et al). You can call this head-in-sand stuff if you like but I think the probability of losing Scully to GWS is so slim that only the worst MFCSS sufferers would even bother giving it any thought, let alone worrying about it or wasting brain cycles on deciding whether they'd begrudge him or not.

As I see it, the most likely players we'd lose are the average-good types like Bate or Warnock. Good enough to get a game in a new side and remain competitive. We won't lose our young star-potentials for the reasons I outlined above, and I doubt our best senior players are likely to be targets because they're not good enough for GWS to pay overs, so we'd just match whatever was offered. Given that, if a player of the target ilk (Bate, Warnock et al) believes he can get better coin and further opportunities at a new club, then more power to him.

Excellent post.

Best post i've read from Nasher. Agree with every point. Absolutely no chance of Scully leaving, makes no sense from any perspective.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Although a lot want to put their head in the sand and say we are a great club and won't lose anyone there is a realistic chance that a player could be poached by GWS... we were lucky to avoid the GC signing but with GWS having two years to sign uncontracted players they may go after one of our young guns.

This isn't a thread about any one in particular player but if one of our said gun player performs out of site and was offer 6 mil over 6yrs would you begrudge him for taking it considering Davey is probably our highest paid on about 600K??

I just wonder if they'd target someone like Bater, who has a strong body & could become 'fringe', is now vastly experienced & would be considered leadership character?

They will target some, but it will end up down to those contracted, or Not.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I have a question that may be relevant. What are the financial incentives for players who play in finals and grand finals? I'm pretty sure they get bonus cash outside the salary cap, but how much is it? Would the fact that GWS is unlikely to feature in finals for a while be enough to offset the salary cap advantages they enjoy?

[ox_5 163]

This year the prize for the premiers was $1 million. Half of this went to the club, half to the players. I would assume only the 22 who played - or in the case of Leon Davis, maybe 23.

So that would make it $22,727 per player if 22.

The runners up shared $500,000, so $250k to club, $250 to players. Making it $11,363 per player.

Well said Nasher - a common sense post.

Im not concerned about GWS anyway, it's Richmond I have heard are the danger.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Brilliant Nasher.

[rpfc 28,441]

Well said Nasher - a common sense post.

Im not concerned about GWS anyway, it's Richmond I have heard are the danger.

Yeah, the Tiges...

They have no way of doing it but, they are the ones...

Yeah, well said Nasher.

Next person to openly say they think Scully will go to GWS goes on my list.

If I still have a list, if not, I will start a list.

I like lists, is what I am trying to say.

[ox_5 163]

Yeah, the Tiges...

They have no way of doing it but, they are the ones...

So I have heard. I cant tell you why though. I think that's how it goes.

[Wolfmother 182]

Although I agree with your logic nasher there are two things I think we miss

1) You are assuming that GWS will follow GC drafting model, if they really did have a crack at Martin and Naitanui then they are using a different strategy to GC (although any uncontract player will probably get link to them) There is a fair assumption they will go for the stars like bartel, swan etc etc but if they are going younger Martin and Naitanui, they are the same age as Watts and Scully...

2) They have the ability to poach uncontracted players at the end of there first season (I think this is a huge issue). So players like Trengove who signed a three year deal still can be approached. Although Scully is the main one mentioned on here, coming out of contract would be trengove, watts (again) morton, grimes, syliva (which is who I would personally poach if I was GWS), the only two locked up are Frawley and Davey (I believe, unless someone signed a three year deal this year)

Melbourne is a far better prospect of a club in general to be at with its history, new training facilities, the MCG, rise up the ladder etc etc but we can't compete on money.... The only way a player will leave is for the cash now a few on here jump up and done when Bruce left as he was looking out for himself. If another player does that will you hold it against them?????

[Deeoldfart 8,033]

I’m not too concerned about losing any of our young guns to GWS or anyone else, because I’m confident that there’s a very strong bond between the core group at Melbourne ...... a bond of mateship between young blokes who are single minded about achieving the ultimate goal together.

The following quotes by Jordie McKenzie (recent Inside Football feature article) illustrate the point I’m trying to make:

“The team is just a really good bunch of mates, and there’s a lot of boys around the same age, so we all get on very well. I feel very lucky coming to the Club at this time where there’s a lot of youth and we’re all coming through together. I just want to play as much footy with them as I can in the years to come. .............................. I would definitely like to stay at Melbourne for good. I’ll stay for as long as they’ll have me.”

We all know that Jordie has already demonstrated enormous loyalty to stay with the Dees, but I’d be very surprised if all of our key youngsters don’t share the same attitude. Players who are on the fringe might be tempted by greener pastures, but not our core players IMO.

[sylvinator 96]

The only players out of contract at the end of 2011 that the club would be absolutely desperate to sign up would be Scully and Sylvia. We have the cash to adequately compensate both of them, and I hope we get Scully on a 4 year Frawley-esk contract. None of the others would really hurt the team long term if we got compensation for them.

Lots of players coming out of contract at the end of 2012, but the priorities for early contract extensions are limited to Jurrah, Garland and Trengove.

Imo, if we sign up those 5 guys (Scully, Sylvia, Jurrah, Garland and Trengove), with Davey, Grimes, Watts and Frawley already out of GWS reach, our nucleus of most important players will have been protected. Obviously I wouldn't want to lose a guy like Morton or Pettard, but being cold and realistic, they wouldn't do any long term damage to the direction of our list.

See this bigfooty thread to see if you agree: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=767361

[Keyser Söze 0]

I think Morton will be a real weapon in future, but will just take a longer time to develop, just like Goddard did.

Id hate to lose him, but I concede it would be more damaging to lose one of the other core players you mentioned as priorities.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I would be very upset if one of our young guns decided to go with the money, But I couldn't blame them. The amount of money that could be thrown at them is enough to set them up for the rest of their lives. I live in hope that the camaraderie and prospect of winning grand finals in front of huge crowds would be bigger lure, but reality says that it won't be the case for all of them, especially if there is one struggling to keep a spot in the side like Morton was this year.